Turn the other cheek? New Testament empowers sadists.

What better way to defeat the masses? The art of fighting without fighting.

I came across The Book of Ecclesiates. It's attributed to Solomon. Its legitimacy is oft-disputed. It seem that Solomon turned to idol-worship and sorcery and was cursed by God in 2 Kings. Controversy aside, I do like the beginning of the 3rd chapter:

3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

I see that lots of people talk about how forgiveness sets one free. That without forgiveness we won't be forgiven. I've seen news footage of a mother saying to her son's murderer "you killed my son for his wallet, you have ruined our lives... but I forgive you and pray for you". WTF - why? Why not say "I hope you rot in prison and suffer, you swine!"

Especially in the New Age movement people ramble about "vibrations" and anger being toxic. People preach forgiveness and tolearnce. Pacifism is bogus. It seems that an easy way to disempower the masses would be to lay on a huge guilt trip (victim blaming/brainwashing). Why should people tolerate something intolerable? If we wanted to follow the saying "love your enemies; do good that those who hate you", how would that bring peace? Oh mister terrorist, I don't want to be anti-Islam. I'll pray for you, and you can just come over here and behead everyone. Rape all our women while we pray for God to forgive. Ye know not what ye do.

Personally, I don't care if they know what they're doing. If someone trespasses against you in an aggressive manor, true non-violence would put an end to the offender's actions. If an exchange of words brings about a resolution, that would be great. However, psychopaths that feel no remorse and lie, cheat, rob and kill usually don't honor a verbal supplication for peace.

Come on, man! The right attitude is "do no harm, but take no sh*t". If people buy into the meekness ideology, then that encourages predatory behavior. Sure, if someone realizes they've done something wrong, and they repent, asking for forgiveness, it may be okay to forgive. But, what about hardened criminals who take advantage of "good-hearted" people? The world is run by cutthroat go-getters. Compassion should be used sparingly.

Maybe these values echo the beliefs of modern Satanism. Personally, I don't like the Church of Satan, but some of their statements and beliefs make sense when taken by themselves. I do believe in spirit souls, an afterlife, reincarnation and heaven & hell. I don't believe in a cruel social Darwinism that advocates amorality. I think Nietzsche made a few valid observations, but his antinomian disregard for ethics bothers me.

Divine feminine awakening, transgender revolution, LGBT pride - these are considered acceptable to the hippie left. Why is "bigotry" to say "I don't believe a woman has a right to terminate a pregnancy" or "black people and their culture annoy me"? There is a double standard here. Certain viewpoints are acceptable, but seemingly "negative" things like racism are considered ignorant.

Very little good comes from forced "diversity". Most white people like being around their kind. Black people like being around other black people. Asians like being around Asians of their background. The lack of cultures in not an enlightened society. I believe acceptance of multiple, yet opposing viewpoints is confusing and creates an atmosphere of moral relativity and existential nihilism.

a reply to: Darmok

I've seen news footage of a mother saying to her son's murderer "you killed my son for his wallet, you have ruined our lives... but I forgive you and pray for you". WTF - why? Why not say "I hope you rot in prison and suffer, you swine!"

Because anger is a burning coal you want to throw at others but burns your own hand.

What is a better society: one where everyone thinks like the woman you quote or one where evryone thinks like you?

a reply to: Darmok

The Hippies made a great song out of this




Watching that vid reminds me of a time when we were all a lot more innocent

How I miss those times

If "turn the other cheek" empowers sadists, does the golden rule empower masochists?

a reply to: markosity1973

Are YOU kidding?
We were locked in a cold war ...wait

a reply to: Phage

"Life of Brian"
The Christian peoples Judean Front...

I think the point you miss is that Christ said stay away from trouble, not get in its way

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: markosity1973

Are YOU kidding?
We were locked in a cold war ...wait

Lolz, that was the nothern hemisphere. Down here in the antipodes the 60's, 70's and even the early 80's life was blissful and mostly innocent - the world's troubles seemed so far away then.

a reply to: markosity1973

Well of course. The radiation would take a long time to cross the equator. What was that movie? On the Beach?

Ten years ago, a so-called "friend" asked to borrow a very nice guitar from me. It was an Ibanez S-series with a solid mahogany body and a custom made neck with sharktooth inlays and a Floyd Rose tremolo system. We were co-workers, and we used to hang out after work. We even went to Ozzfest together, and he and his girlfriend had me over for dinner. When he asked me to borrow my guitar for a couple weeks so he could record an album, I figured: why not? He's my friend, and I'd be glad to help out with his project. Well, he never gave it back. It retailed $1,000 in 1994 when it was new. I sent him emails and messages on myspace. He ignored them. He even posted pictures of him playing it at some gigs. He moved out of the area, and totally dodged me. I went to his mother's house, and told her what he did. She said she didn't know anything about it, and that he didn't live there anymore. A few weeks later, I went back, and she said that she mentioned it to her son. My former friend told her that I gave it to him as a gift, and that I was lying about him stealing it.

No, I don't forgive him. Why should I? I worked hard to pay for that guitar. I bought it from a guy who used to give me guitar lessons. I don't lose sleep over it, but I'll never forget it. I'll never pardon his actions nor wish him well. ***If, for some reason, he were to contact me and say "Darmok, I want to give your guitar back. I feel bad about taking it from you back in 2006." At that point, I would definitely thank him, accept his apology, get my guitar, and tell him "no hard feelings".

If I ran into him by chance, and he happened to have it with him, I would knock him out with sucker punch and take off with my property.

I would hate to live in a society that loves bad people and pardons bad deeds. If you're too much of a wuss, and being angry hurts your little feelings - you are an enabler, and you are the reason crime is a succesful business.

Peace is a lie.

a reply to: Darmok
Stealing is a bad one. Stealing a guitar is so very wrong.

Junky? Not that it excuses anything.

a reply to: Darmok

Actually, a true sadist wouldn't take much pleasure in hurting someone who actually lived by "forgiveness" to those that harm them. Their acceptance and forgiveness of whatever physical pain they might endure wouldn't give a sadist that extra pleasure derived from someone who expressed their suffering more overtly.

They get off on the suffering they cause others so someone who accepting of that suffering I would think would ruin it to some degree.

originally posted by: Darmok
Turn the other cheek? New Testament empowers sadists.

I'll try to offer you a hint, but knowledge = experience, and you are speaking from ignorance.
When you feel the need to criticize something like "Turn the other cheek", feel free to live it for a couple decades, just in case you do not automatically know everything!
You really imagine that you can know anything of any of the 'higher values (like Virtues...)' from your ego centered life??

One example that you might be able to understand is changing one's baby's diaper.
You are standing in the wrong spot, at the wrong time; diaper pins in your mouth and fecal matter all over the place, and little Johnny picks just then to pee right up your arm, in your face, and down the other arm!
You gonna smack him? Teach him a lesson?
Who the hell is he to DARE to do something like that to you!?
Torture him?
Poke an eye out?
How insane really are you?

So, hyperbole aside, you wouldn't even break an emotional sweat, right? He's your beloved child and that doesn't even register on the Richter Scale because... you Love him, unconditionally!
You don't 'sacrifice' anything in just turning the other cheek and moving on!
You do not even need to 'forgive' him, because you didn't JUDGE him in the first place!
All there was is Love!
Even if you do not have any children, as I surmise that you don't, I'm sure that you can, somewhat, imagine this scenario, and just get the slightest hint of what unconditional Love is about.

At least until (if) you actually experience it for yourself, and Know, rather than idly, ignorantly, speculating.

True, unconditional Love is ALWAYS recognized by It's unconditional Virtues; Compassion, Empathy, Sympathy, Gratitude, Humility, Charity (charity is never taking more than your share of anything, ever!), Honesty, Happiness, Faith...
ALWAYS!

"We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are!"

a reply to: mOjOm

That may be. But I find that sadists, bullies, oppressors of other anti-social people DO like easy targets. While they might not get a ton of satisfaction out of a forgiving victim, they do enjoy knowing that they don't have to worry about retribution. It's easier to push someone around when you know they're not gonna catch you off-guard and kick your teeth in.

I would like to live in a society where the vast majority of armed robberies end with the robber being shot in the back while running out of the store.

originally posted by: JohnthePhilistine
While I do commend your hate, what kind of man lets some dude ripe his ax and says, ten years later, you wanna sucker punch the dude and get your stuff back?
You should thank whatever gloryhole god you pray to that it wasn't me or I'd have taken more
All Christians are not the same and will not treat you the same so a soft ole fellow like you might be more careful.

Like I said, the guy was a friend and co-worker. He never gave me any reason not to trust him. We'd cover each others' shifts if we needed a day off from work. We would go to concerts and parties. We never had any problems. Even after he had borrowed the axe, I was chilling at his house a week later, and we even listened to some tracks he had recorded. He said he would give it back soon, So, I didn't really let him steal it. He just decided to skip town and never give it back. He decided to betray my trust. I don't see how that makes me "soft". It makes him a scumbag.

originally posted by: Phage
If "turn the other cheek" empowers sadists, does the golden rule empower masochists?

No. I don't think so. But it could be used to justify masochism.

"Love your neighbor as yourself" or "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" ?

If I'm waiting for a bus, and some guy tries to start a fight, I try to talk my way out of it and/or walk away. If the guy insists of fighting, I try to hurt him enough so that he can't continue to fight, then I walk away. I don't care if that means breaking ribs, or a nose, or an arm, or even a kneecap. I would never initiate such an encounter, but for the sake of argument, if I ever attack someone, I hope they hurt me pretty bad because I would deserve it. If you love yourself, you won't let someone hurt you. And if you love your neighbor, you won't let him hurt you because you wouldn't want someone to let you hurt them.

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Darmok
Turn the other cheek? New Testament empowers sadists.

I'll try to offer you a hint, but knowledge = experience, and you are speaking from ignorance.
When you feel the need to criticize something like "Turn the other cheek", feel free to live it for a couple decades, just in case you do not automatically know everything!
You really imagine that you can know anything of any of the 'higher values (like Virtues...)' from your ego centered life??

One example that you might be able to understand is changing one's baby's diaper.
You are standing in the wrong spot, at the wrong time; diaper pins in your mouth and fecal matter all over the place, and little Johnny picks just then to pee right up your arm, in your face, and down the other arm!
You gonna smack him? Teach him a lesson?
Who the hell is he to DARE to do something like that to you!?
Torture him?
Poke an eye out?
How insane really are you?

So, hyperbole aside, you wouldn't even break an emotional sweat, right? He's your beloved child and that doesn't even register on the Richter Scale because... you Love him, unconditionally!
You don't 'sacrifice' anything in just turning the other cheek and moving on!
You do not even need to 'forgive' him, because you didn't JUDGE him in the first place!
All there was is Love!
Even if you do not have any children, as I surmise that you don't, I'm sure that you can, somewhat, imagine this scenario, and just get the slightest hint of what unconditional Love is about.

At least until (if) you actually experience it for yourself, and Know, rather than idly, ignorantly, speculating.

True, unconditional Love is ALWAYS recognized by It's unconditional Virtues; Compassion, Empathy, Sympathy, Gratitude, Humility, Charity (charity is never taking more than your share of anything, ever!), Honesty, Happiness, Faith...
ALWAYS!

"We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are!"

Do you unconditionally love John Wayne Gacy? The guy murdered and raped young boys. If have compassion for Gacy, then I hate your guts. The guy got lethal injection. I think he should've been burnt at the stake or fed to alligators.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Darmok

Actually, a true sadist wouldn't take much pleasure in hurting someone who actually lived by "forgiveness" to those that harm them. Their acceptance and forgiveness of whatever physical pain they might endure wouldn't give a sadist that extra pleasure derived from someone who expressed their suffering more overtly.

They get off on the suffering they cause others so someone who accepting of that suffering I would think would ruin it to some degree.

Yes.

"Hit me!" the masochist pleaded to the sadist.
The sadist coldly replied "No..."

OP. turning th e other cheek is about literally means avoiding situations such as verbal insults. it does not mean to let oneself b e beaten to death or injured bodily like is constantly mis interpreted.