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People ARE Mixing the Gospels Together!

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posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 02:22 PM
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So-called Christendom today fails to rightly divide the word of truth, because they have mixed God’s program with Israel and his program with the Body of Christ and mixed dispensations together; dispensations that do not mix together, and as a result, they think they have taken on Israel’s role from the point where Israel left off.

The programs have simply been intertwined in the minds of the religious world. Any kind of works at all, even if they appear to be good works in a our minds, that are done for the purpose attaining salvation, or for the purpose of maintaining salvation, and even for the purpose of proving our salvation is a slap in the face of God, who had to provide the gift of salvation, because our righteousness would be totally incapable of meriting it. 


It was God’s plan to use the faith and its resultant faithfulness of the son of God in the ultimate glorification of human-kind who would take him at his word, the union of believers to Christ is that which allows God to remain just when he credits those with the righteousness of his son. 
Are we to study the Word of God as though it were a hodge-podge assortment of instructions that are all the same for all the people of all the ages? Some people study it that way, and then wonder why they can not make sense of it. 


Cafeteria Christianity, each group placing on their plate the portion, or portions of Scripture that appeal most to them. “We want this, but we will ignore that.” “We will take one of these, but we will leave the others off our plate.” But we can not pick and choose whatever doctrine suits our appetites, as though it is left up to us to sere ourselves.


We have to allow God to tell us in the Word, the portions of that Word that are specifically written about and directly apply to us. If you read the words “ye men of Israel,” “ye men of Judaea” do not take from the table of that nation and put that instruction on your plate. You are not the nation Israel. You are not under the law, they were. You are under grace!




posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 02:35 PM
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Laz mostly agrees, but I call it "Buffet" Christianity.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 02:41 PM
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originally posted by: newnature1
Any kind of works at all, even if they appear to be good works in a our minds, that are done for the purpose attaining salvation, or for the purpose of maintaining salvation, and even for the purpose of proving our salvation is a slap in the face of God, who had to provide the gift of salvation,

I agree with two-thirds of that.
Paul's theme is that "works" are not the way of attaining salvation 
(which is why I have been doing that series on Galatians).
However, James suggests works as the evidence for faith, and I think Paul would go along with that.
Faith comes first, in order of time; anything we do for God follows on from our faith.


If you read the words “ye men of Israel,” “ye men of Judaea” do not take from the table of that nation and put that instruction on your plate. You are not the nation Israel. You are not under the law, they were. You are under grace!

It is useful here to apply Paul's distinction between "Israel according to the flesh" and "Israel according to the Spirit".
"Israel according to the flesh" is/was under the Law.
Those who belong to Christ are "Israel according to the Spirit", and NOT under the law.


edit on 5-3-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 02:44 PM
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originally posted by: Lazarus Short
Laz mostly agrees, but I call it "Buffet" Christianity.


There are those who mistakenly suppose that reconciliation is the same thing as justification. These people have jumped to the conclusion that Jesus Christ taking the sin issue off the table of God’s justice through his becoming sin for the human race is that which makes a person as righteous as God; they have mistaken reconciliation for justification. Being declared righteous is God’s gift to the believing sinner and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the sinner himself doing anything to deserve or merit that righteous standing.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: newnature1
Any kind of works at all, even if they appear to be good works in a our minds, that are done for the purpose attaining salvation, or for the purpose of maintaining salvation, and even for the purpose of proving our salvation is a slap in the face of God, who had to provide the gift of salvation,

I agree with two-thirds of that.
Paul's theme is that "works" are not the way of attaining salvation 
(which is why I have been doing that series on Galatians).
However, James suggests works as the evidence for faith, and I think Paul would go along with that.
Faith comes first, in order of time; anything we do for God follows on from our faith.


If you read the words “ye men of Israel,” “ye men of Judaea” do not take from the table of that nation and put that instruction on your plate. You are not the nation Israel. You are not under the law, they were. You are under grace!

It is useful here to apply Paul's distinction between "Israel according to the flesh" and "Israel according to the Spirit".
"Israel according to the flesh" is/was under the Law.
Those who belong to Christ are "Israel according to the Spirit", and NOT under the law.



When it came to Israel’s promised earthly kingdom and the forgiveness of sins by the earthly King of that promised earthly kingdom, what was absolutely essential to that forgiveness being granted? It’s always been the issue of faith down through out history. Faith of course, without faith they would not be forgiven and without forgiveness there would not be any healing. What would faith do in that program, when faith was called upon to do a work to prove itself?



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: newnature1
What would faith do in that program, when faith was called upon to do a work to prove itself?

No, I wasn't suggesting that faith was required to prove itself.
But the natural effect of faith would be beginning to do the things that God wanted, which is why James can say that they can show the presence of faith.
As Paul shows in the case of Abraham, trust in God is at the heart of everything.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 03:05 PM
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At different times in your life, and under differing circumstances, some passages of scripture will mean more to you (or be more applicable to you) than at other times in your life.

That's just life. Certain teachings will be more important to you than others as you go through life, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. The important part is that you stay centered on what remains constant throughout.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 03:13 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: newnature1
What would faith do in that program, when faith was called upon to do a work to prove itself?

No, I wasn't suggesting that faith was required to prove itself.
But the natural effect of faith would be beginning to do the things that God wanted, which is why James can say that they can show the presence of faith.
As Paul shows in the case of Abraham, trust in God is at the heart of everything.


During the age of grace, by removing the sin issue from the table of God’s justice, God effectively canceled Satan’s ownership of all the human race. Satan can lay claim to no person based on that persons sinfulness.

Apart from Christ’s faith and his faithfulness to carry out the Father’s will based on that faith, there would not be anyone perfectly righteous to whom God could join a believing sinner. Just as Christ never doubted the will of the Father, the Father never doubted the faith and faithfulness of his son. 


It was God’s plan to use the faith and its resultant faithfulness of the son of God in the ultimate glorification of human-kind who would take him at his word, the union of believers to Christ is that which allows God to remain just when he credits those with the righteousness of his son.

We see the “prayer of faith” Israel walked by sight, Yahweh allowed their prayer life to work in connection with sight as that earthly kingdom was on their doorstep. Yahweh worked in connection with the sign nation, the healings that were performed and the power resident in the prayer of faith. When the kingdom program was ongoing and Jesus was ready to rule and reign right here on earth, a troubled believer could pray the prayer of faith, when presented with suffering circumstances and those circumstance would disappear. Yahweh provided that prayer of faith, because that kingdom was at hand and the time for troubling circumstances had come to an end. It was time to put an end to pain and suffering, because it was time for the King to rule and reign on this earth.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI
Disraeli, you never disappoint, or cease to amaze me at your understanding of the bible, and the finer points that escape most people that haven't paid their dues in study time. We may be on opposite sides of the fence when it comes to deities and the need for salvation, but on the bible alone, I seldom, if ever, can find fault with your interpretation. No flattery intended. 100% sincere.

On topic:


So-called Christendom today fails to rightly divide the word of truth, because they have mixed God’s program with Israel and his program with the Body of Christ and mixed dispensations together; dispensations that do not mix together, and as a result, they think they have taken on Israel’s role from the point where Israel left off.

"Rightly dividing the word of truth" requires extensive study time the majority of Christian's aren't going to put in. So it should be no surprise that most couldn't even tell you what a dispensation is, let alone understand your critique of "mixing" them. Also, "rightly dividing" is often subjective among Christians, and even those who have studied for many years are going to fail somewhere in their interpretation. It's only human nature. I believe Jesus had something to say about that, as did Peter and Paul.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 05:57 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: DISRAELI
Disraeli, you never disappoint, or cease to amaze me at your understanding of the bible, and the finer points that escape most people that haven't paid their dues in study time. We may be on opposite sides of the fence when it comes to deities and the need for salvation, but on the bible alone, I seldom, if ever, can find fault with your interpretation. No flattery intended. 100% sincere.

On topic:


So-called Christendom today fails to rightly divide the word of truth, because they have mixed God’s program with Israel and his program with the Body of Christ and mixed dispensations together; dispensations that do not mix together, and as a result, they think they have taken on Israel’s role from the point where Israel left off.

"Rightly dividing the word of truth" requires extensive study time the majority of Christian's aren't going to put in. So it should be no surprise that most couldn't even tell you what a dispensation is, let alone understand your critique of "mixing" them. Also, "rightly dividing" is often subjective among Christians, and even those who have studied for many years are going to fail somewhere in their interpretation. It's only human nature. I believe Jesus had something to say about that, as did Peter and Paul.



As we read the letters, which are addressed to us through the Apostle Paul; and, on turning to the Book of Revelation, in chapters two and three we are at once conscious of a striking change. We find letters suddenly removed from the ground of “Grace” to the ground of “Works”.

Israel walked by sight, that was part of the contract, the contract God established with the nation Israel called the law. In that contract itself, God said he would deal with them according to things they could look at. 


So, God dealt with the sign nation according to signs. For we walk by faith, not by sight is a clear statement from Paul how we walk today. We stop looking for things.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: newnature1

I mostly agree too



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 06:15 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: newnature1

I mostly agree too



A God recognized righteousness would be an absolute necessity for that nation, if they were to acquire and remain in the land promised to their fathers. Paul could never preach and never preached the Gospel of the Kingdom, because the kingdom was no longer at hand. When Israel’s leadership rejected the King, that kingdom was placed on the shelf to be reserved for a future fulfillment.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 06:22 PM
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a reply to: newnature1
But the letters of Revelation are not addressed to the old nation of Israel.
They are addressed to Christians, the followers of Jesus.

Think about it. Paul spends a lot of time in Galatians explaining why the Law is incapable of bringing people to God.
If his case is valid at all, it remains permanently valid.
The Law is not going to become suddenly capable of doing the job after all, for the benefit of the people addressed in Revelation.
That line of argument does exactly what Paul is complaining about in Galatians; it undermines the gospel of grace through Christ by making his work unnecessary. It is a way of re-introducing legalism by the back door.

The Revelation letters approve of good works for the same reason that Paul himself approves of good works, as long as they are kept in their rightful place; that is, following on from faith.




edit on 5-3-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 06:37 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: newnature1
But the letters of Revelation are not addressed to the old nation of Israel.
They are addressed to Christians, the followers of Jesus.

Think about it. Paul spends a lot of time in Galatians explaining why the Law is incapable of bringing people to God.
If his case is valid at all, it remains permanently valid.
The Law is not going to become suddenly capable of doing the job after all, for the benefit of the people addressed in Revelation.
That line of argument does exactly what Paul is complaining about in Galatians; it undermines the gospel of grace through Christ by making his work unnecessary. It is a way of re-introducing legalism by the back door.

The Revelation letters approve of good works for the same reason that Paul himself approves of good works, as long as they are kept in their rightful place; that is, following on from faith.





There will be a people for Yahweh on the earth during those eventful years, and Yahweh indeed has provided for their instruction, and warning, and encouragement, in the second and third chapters of the Book of Revelation. Right at the beginning, they are the first subjects of Divine remembrance, provision, and care. Their needs must be first provided for, before anything else is recorded of the things which John saw; and there they will find what is specially written for their learning. But those readers will be at once be reminded of the various stages of their own past history, and they will find in almost every sentence some allusion to the circumstances in which they will find themselves as described in these seven letters. 


They are written to the People supposed to be well-versed in the history of the Old Testament, and well-acquainted with all that had happened to their fathers and had been written for their admonition. Instructed in the past history of their nation, they will readily understand the relation between the testings and judgments in the past with which they are familiar, and those similar circumstances in which they will find themselves in a yet future day. As we read these letters, the references to the Old Testament in the seven letters correspond with the historical order of the events, so it is with respect to the promises contained in these letters. 


While the historical events connected with the rebukes are carried down from Exodus to the period of the Minor Prophets, the promises cover a different period; commencing with the period of Eden, and ending with the period of Solomon. The subjects of the rebukes follow the order of the departure of the people from Yahweh. Their decline and apostasy is traced out in the historical references contained in these letters. But when we turn to the promises, then all is different. 

Thy proceed in the opposite direction. The order, instead of descending from Israel’s highest ground of privilege (Exodus) to the lowest stage of destitution (Minor Prophets), the order ascends from tending a garden to sharing his throne. 


The seven promises are all intensely individual, there is no corporate existence recognized as such. “And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil one. (AntiChrist)” The temptation spoken of here has to do with testing. Jesus had something particular in mind as he taught them how to be praying. The prayer of faith was a taste of the kingdom in time past.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 06:46 PM
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originally posted by: NthOther

At different times in your life, and under differing circumstances, some passages of scripture will mean more to you (or be more applicable to you) than at other times in your life.

That's just life. Certain teachings will be more important to you than others as you go through life, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. The important part is that you stay centered on what remains constant throughout.

It certainly can get much worse than it is today for believers, it is just an age of grace tribulation, and the time of Jacob’s tribulation are entirely two different things. 


Persecution and suffering troubling circumstances in a wide variety of ways will very likely increase as this age of grace winds onward towards it’s culmination toward the time of our being caught up to meet Jesus, our Savior in the air. 


We will be delivered from the time of Israel’s tribulation by way of the Body of Christ being caught up in the air to meet Jesus, we need not come with the idea that since we have deliverance from that tribulation, we believers of the age of grace have an automatic pass when it comes to tribulation, we certainly will not.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 06:47 PM
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originally posted by: newnature1
There will be a people for Yahweh on the earth during those eventful years,

Yes indeed. There will be the church. As frequently elsewhere in the New Testament, Revelation calls them "the saints".

They are written to the People supposed to be well-versed in the history of the Old Testament,

Yes, the church of John's time would have been well acquainted with the Old Testament. That's where they got much of their knowledge of Christ.

There is no need to drag "Israel according to the flesh" into this, and even less need to drag in the Law.
Paul says that the works of the Law are not capable of bringing us to God.
Do you believe him or not?
Are you a believer in grace, or are you going to follow the neo-legalists of our time?


edit on 5-3-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 06:52 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: newnature1
There will be a people for Yahweh on the earth during those eventful years,

Yes indeed. There will be the church. As frequently elsewhere in the New Testament, Revelation calls them "the saints".

They are written to the People supposed to be well-versed in the history of the Old Testament,

Yes, the church of John's time would have been well acquainted with the Old Testament. That's where they got much of their knowledge of Christ.

There is no need to drag "Israel according to the flesh" into this, and even less need to drag in the Law.
Paul says that the works of the Law are not capable of bringing us to God.
Do you believe him or not?
Are you a believer in grace, or are you going to follow the neo-legalists of our time?



We are discharged from the law all together according to the apostle Paul, we have been set free, Christ issued the discharge papers and Paul delivered those papers. Why did God put that performance-based merit system in place in the first place, because God was proving to weak and sinful flesh, the inability of the flesh to fulfill its righteous demands, we can look back at the law now, and we can say, you can not touch me anymore, your condemnation will have no effect on me whatsoever! 


I know the parameters, I no longer fear the repercussions of your ruler-ship, I know the condemnation you bring because of the emotions you stir up in the weakness of my flesh. Our blessing are not based on our performance in any way, shape, or form, our blessings are based on Christ’s performance, because we are members of his flesh.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 06:55 PM
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a reply to: newnature1
I'm not even trying to "condemn" you.
You and other people are being led astray by some form of teaching which wants to reintroduce legalism by the back door, and that's what I'm criticising.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 07:07 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: newnature1
I'm not even trying to "condemn" you.
You and other people are being led astray by some form of teaching which wants to reintroduce legalism by the back door, and that's what I'm criticising.




Romans 16:7 - Andronicus and Junia had believed the truth about Jesus being the messiah prior to Paul’s calling on the Damascus road. A person in Christ’s day could be “in Christ” they could be in Christ in a redemptive sense, since they were earthly kingdom saints. They had become believing participates while the earthly kingdom program was still in operation. 


Some have taken that verse and have said that means somebody else was in the Body of Christ before the apostle Paul, not so. Paul used the expression “in the flesh” in more than one way in his epistles. Just as he used the expression “in Christ” in more than one way, context determining the manner of usage. Just as he would “after the flesh” in more than one way. 2 Corinthians 10:3


There came a time when God ceased dealing with the nation Israel as a nation, but understand, that does not mean God ceased dealing with individuals who were Israelites at that time. The religious leadership of Israel never made that confession. For that matter, the vast majority of the nation never made that confession. Leviticus 26:40-46


Yet, attaining and maintaining their promised land would absolutely be depended upon that confession. Is it possible to differentiate in your Bible between scripture about the nation Israel, God’s program with her and the earth, and scripture written about the Body of Christ? 


The difficulty for most people, is when it comes to finding that change of program in the book of Acts, that book covers such a lengthy portion of time, but a great change did indeed take place in the book of Acts. God is not dealing with Israel nationally today, he is dealing with all alike in the Age of Grace.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 07:12 PM
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a reply to: newnature1

most today mix the gospel of the grace of God with the gospel of the kingdom and the Everlasting gospel



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