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U.S. land managers reject development near Grand Canyon

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posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 08:07 PM
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a reply to: criticalhit

Have you been to NW Idaho and NE Wa? Bring your camper. I know what we have and don't want to lose it for commerce.




posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 08:09 PM
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originally posted by: lostbook
a reply to: criticalhit

Well, I may not live near the canyon but I am from Arizona; was born in Phoenix. My family and I would drive up to the Canyon to visit and we really loved it. The Canyon holds a special memory for me as it is. I do hear your plight but I just don't think a big corporate development is the answer. Can't you just imagine what a bunch of bored teens will do to the canyon? I know it's not a utopia now but just imagine the problems which exist ten-fold. There will be air pollution, water pollution, noise pollution, crime, drugs, gangs, prostitution, and anything else you can think of in abundance.


No... lol, none of this is even remotely true.

The people already live there, the Navajos and other locals are there anyway, can I imagine what bored teens will do? Yeah I see it the Navajos commit suicide , a lot... That's what bored teens do... giving them jobs wont make it worse lol.

Where do you get this stuff...

Crime? Drugs? Prostitution?

It's 420 acres of stores in an area bigger than a small State

You sound kind of wonky honestly with your "memory" of how much you loved it because let me tell you this thing would take up approximately 30 seconds to drive by of 2 hrs of continuous nothing else... you could miss it by accident...

and you have like, scores of screaming whores and like what? metropolis? like dystopian robots using humans as sex slaves and listening to hip hop while killing elves?

It's just a few Restaurants and a place where kids can get out and watch an IMAX after a 6 hr drive with dad farting in the car the whole way.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 08:18 PM
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a reply to: MOMof3

I Love the area MOM

I just dispute this "everything east of the Rockies" stuff

I live here, i'm from there... it's different flavors of wilderness, but it's a facetious statement.

Open up Google Earth and examine the pictures of the Adirondack Mountains as one of a Million examples of why your blanket statement is simply wrong.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 08:26 PM
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a reply to: criticalhit

I was born in Mississippi, raised in Ill/Mo. When I visited Idaho and East Wash, I could not believe how you could go camping 5 minutes from home. Or hunt, hike, fish.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 08:40 PM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: criticalhit

I was born in Mississippi, raised in Ill/Mo. When I visited Idaho and East Wash, I could not believe how you could go camping 5 minutes from home. Or hunt, hike, fish.


Yeah... there isn't a State in the Union where you can't do that. You could do that in parts of Illinois, just not in larger towns.

My State is a Desert and I can walk out my door and go camping five minutes from my door and hike and fish too, and it wouldn't be ruined in any way shape or form if 98 miles away someone put a few places to eat and shop



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 08:52 PM
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a reply to: criticalhit

I live in a small city and can go 3 different directions and find a lonely camping site in 10 minutes. And why would we want to take the chance of giving up more? No money can replace freedom like that.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 09:14 PM
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a reply to: MOMof3

You are... honestly totally off on your own bend

I also can go in 3 directions and find a lonely campsite in 10 minutes...

and there is absolutely nothing in regards to 1/3000ths of the land in the nearest Million sq Miles being used to provide places for visitors or locals to sleep or eat or take a poop that will affect my ability to do so.

This is NOT a topic of urbanization, this is "Land management" no one is proposing incorporation a dozen small towns along the rim of the canyon, shrinking the protected areas, building skyscrappers and stadiums lol...

The issue is land management, how much of a single percent may be used for comfort and entertainment... and yeah, the Native kids can have schools lol, there can be a place to shop every 100 Miles without ruining anything lol.

You are turning it into some other something...

Part of the joke being YOU live in some sort of "town" that is extremely Rural just like myself...

So who died and made you the lord of the wilderness and said you can pipe your poo and have a supermarket but others can't?



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 09:20 PM
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a reply to: criticalhit

That is my point. There is a political movement going on right now trying to get Public lands and turn private in Utah and Idaho. I am so glad you and I have access to public lands. That is why I don't understand your position of giving more away, rob from future generations what we enjoy.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 09:24 PM
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originally posted by: criticalhit
It sucks to visit the Grand Canyon as is, nobody wants to ride a god damn mule for days extra effort, people
the local natives suffer from this well meaning bs

Plumbing and places to eat are better than POO and Piss IN the Canyon, it's basic "logic

As I said, I LIVE here, I have 300 miles of Trees out my door, there is so much wild life I can't hold onto a car for more than a year because Elk incidents on the road

my walk to the store for basics 2 Miles, 7 if I want a real supermarket and i'm 100 miles from the rim of the Canyon

But I have to ask? Who staffs the Canyon? Who fly's the helicopters that rescue the people who fall weak? Maintains the Hospital? What about the people who wanted this that live in shacks on the res? the people the place belonged too in the first place?

we need some stuff the economy is scary as hell it wont make a dent...


I would ride a mule through the Grand Canyon, that would be awesome!

It sounds like the natives suffer from a rural life...NO JOKE.... just like anyone else living out in the middle of nowhere, they suffer too.... It also sounds like you need to move to the city.

I do feel for the natives as they do deserve more. but.... come on dude admit you hate roughing it, oh wait you just did haha.... some people do enjoy that type of life. lol

I live out in the middle of nowhere too, so yeah..... I love it!



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 09:34 PM
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BTW that was funny:

"So who died and made you the lord of the wilderness and said you can pipe your poo and have a supermarket but others can't?"

I am not exactly Bear Gryllys. Wished.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 09:42 PM
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Big government ruining freedoms again. Once Cruz abolishes the EPA and other agencies this place can provide prosperity and business opportunity.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 09:46 PM
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originally posted by: criticalhit

originally posted by: lostbook
a reply to: criticalhit

Well, I may not live near the canyon but I am from Arizona; was born in Phoenix. My family and I would drive up to the Canyon to visit and we really loved it. The Canyon holds a special memory for me as it is. I do hear your plight but I just don't think a big corporate development is the answer. Can't you just imagine what a bunch of bored teens will do to the canyon? I know it's not a utopia now but just imagine the problems which exist ten-fold. There will be air pollution, water pollution, noise pollution, crime, drugs, gangs, prostitution, and anything else you can think of in abundance.


No... lol, none of this is even remotely true.

The people already live there, the Navajos and other locals are there anyway, can I imagine what bored teens will do? Yeah I see it the Navajos commit suicide , a lot... That's what bored teens do... giving them jobs wont make it worse lol.

Where do you get this stuff...

Crime? Drugs? Prostitution?

It's 420 acres of stores in an area bigger than a small State

You sound kind of wonky honestly with your "memory" of how much you loved it because let me tell you this thing would take up approximately 30 seconds to drive by of 2 hrs of continuous nothing else... you could miss it by accident...

and you have like, scores of screaming whores and like what? metropolis? like dystopian robots using humans as sex slaves and listening to hip hop while killing elves?

It's just a few Restaurants and a place where kids can get out and watch an IMAX after a 6 hr drive with dad farting in the car the whole way.


I only wish it could be so simple as you describe it. Pollution and trash will make the Canyon into a dump. Crime elements will move in and set up shop. You're viewing the situation through rosy glasses and it may very well be rosy in the beginning but it will end up polluted and trashed. It should be left alone.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 10:14 PM
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originally posted by: imitator

originally posted by: criticalhit
It sucks to visit the Grand Canyon as is, nobody wants to ride a god damn mule for days extra effort, people
the local natives suffer from this well meaning bs

Plumbing and places to eat are better than POO and Piss IN the Canyon, it's basic "logic

As I said, I LIVE here, I have 300 miles of Trees out my door, there is so much wild life I can't hold onto a car for more than a year because Elk incidents on the road

my walk to the store for basics 2 Miles, 7 if I want a real supermarket and i'm 100 miles from the rim of the Canyon

But I have to ask? Who staffs the Canyon? Who fly's the helicopters that rescue the people who fall weak? Maintains the Hospital? What about the people who wanted this that live in shacks on the res? the people the place belonged too in the first place?

we need some stuff the economy is scary as hell it wont make a dent...


I would ride a mule through the Grand Canyon, that would be awesome!

It sounds like the natives suffer from a rural life...NO JOKE.... just like anyone else living out in the middle of nowhere, they suffer too.... It also sounds like you need to move to the city.

I do feel for the natives as they do deserve more. but.... come on dude admit you hate roughing it, oh wait you just did haha.... some people do enjoy that type of life. lol

I live out in the middle of nowhere too, so yeah..... I love it!


Honestly your response like so many on ATS in general is nothing other than moronic assumptions of a personal nature, personal attack and then an interjection of your personal opinion on a trivial point...

Your on the Internet, so am I, stop the bs

"I'd like the mules" so would I, how is that making any sense in regards to environmental science? Another aspect of the Canyon, people want to build a solar powered elevator to give easier access and there is opposition to that too... So Five Million people visit the Canyon how the hell can possibly Tens of Thousands of people ride Mules down to zero facilities and that is healthier or less corrosive than taking a solar elevator down?

There is not one thing in this thread yet that has made sense in regards to science or that is even on topic... what are you guys offering "i like to walk to huntin and fishin" and lame personal attacks...

The TOPIC is the Grand Canyon

5 Million people visit it per year, there is nothing you guys can possibly offer in regards to there being some facilities in locations to handle their needs being somehow better than them pooping in the Colorado river and wandering loose through the woods and canyons with nothing to do but damage or hurt themselves for clearly 90 percent of tourists.

It's a national destination, deal with the reality of it.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 10:20 PM
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a reply to: lostbook

as above, there are already 5 Million people there visiting every year.

Right now there is next to nothing to contain the bulk of their trash and any of the rest of the stuff you are concerned about from being an issue, including the damn helicopters on a constant mission to pull their bodies out of places...

an extra place for them to pull up and park their cars that is NOT in the trees, where they can eat their garbage wrapped in aluminum foil and buy retarded sweatshirts rather than leave them at campgrounds for 50 miles because they don't know how to camp is NEEDED.

These people don't all belong in the woods...

They are here anyway

they burn stuff all the time, they feed the animals junk and... yeah dropping 300 of them a day into a hotel rather than out there... is NOT, NOT, NOT bad for the Canyon or Park.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 10:28 PM
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a reply to: criticalhit

No. I think we just have different beliefs. I understand your perspective, but I still do not believe the pollution would be worth it. I don't think I like the kind of visitors that you describe. The canyon was not made for their convenience, like elevators.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 10:35 PM
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And let me add...(@imitator)

Your also way off base in regards to what i'm saying about the Navajo and Hopi

It's their land,

You guys must be the Great White Hunter I have heard about who will teach the savages how to handle the Earth...

If your lost on why it's so amusing that people on Internet forums are debating the decisions the local natives made in regards to how much space they would allow for public access and accommodations that's just pretty funny stuff...

Who would it be that would know better than what the Native American Tribal elders of the area in regards to what is abusive to the Land?

ahhhh....

Yes...

Some guy in the Obama administration with a Bachelors degree in Forestry

edit on 5-3-2016 by criticalhit because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 10:47 PM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: criticalhit

No. I think we just have different beliefs. I understand your perspective, but I still do not believe the pollution would be worth it. I don't think I like the kind of visitors that you describe. The canyon was not made for their convenience, like elevators.


They aren't to "like or dislike" it's just a thing....


I hear what you are saying, but again the topic is the Canyon and Millions of people go to it, "like" really isn't an factor, if a forest fire starts do you send fire fighters or let it burn because "Nature"?

It's better to "control" the situation, it's safer, it's better for the environment.

Now.... If the debate was "Close off the Canyon" you'd all have legs in the debate. The "no one should be there" argument could hold weight, but that's not the case. They allow this wave of people to come, something must be done to manage it, make it better, safer, less gross.

And let me add... the number will double, The Chinese love to visit the Canyon and more and more come every year, there's not going to be any preservation of the Grand Canyon with another Five Million Asians cooking delicious Ramen noodles in pots over camp fires (trying to evoke funny imagery nothing personal to our asian tourist friends) but seriously, not having places to coral these people is suicide for the area, it's no favor to the Canyon.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 10:47 PM
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originally posted by: criticalhit
a reply to: lostbook

as above, there are already 5 Million people there visiting every year.

Right now there is next to nothing to contain the bulk of their trash and any of the rest of the stuff you are concerned about from being an issue, including the damn helicopters on a constant mission to pull their bodies out of places...

an extra place for them to pull up and park their cars that is NOT in the trees, where they can eat their garbage wrapped in aluminum foil and buy retarded sweatshirts rather than leave them at campgrounds for 50 miles because they don't know how to camp is NEEDED.

These people don't all belong in the woods...

They are here anyway

they burn stuff all the time, they feed the animals junk and... yeah dropping 300 of them a day into a hotel rather than out there... is NOT, NOT, NOT bad for the Canyon or Park.


Be careful what you ask for....Once this is done, it can't be undone. This wonderful place which has been around for ages will be ruined in 10 years-tops. You sound like you are a good person but you don't know that all of the people who move in will be.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 10:49 PM
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a reply to: criticalhit

The plan submitted by the town of Tusayan, a community of about 600 residents on the outskirts of Arizona’s most famous national park, called for shops, restaurants, hotels and more than 2,000 homes on acreage near the South Rim.

news.yahoo.com...

The Indians did not have much to do with it. Tusayan is a "resort town", 50% white.
www.visitarizona.com...
edit on 3/5/2016 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 11:06 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: criticalhit

The plan submitted by the town of Tusayan, a community of about 600 residents on the outskirts of Arizona’s most famous national park, called for shops, restaurants, hotels and more than 2,000 homes on acreage near the South Rim.

news.yahoo.com...

The Indians did not have much to do with it. Tusayan is a "resort town."



True, yeah and the town is maybe 20 percent native.

I'm not trying to make it out to be like it's some coming of the Great White Buffalo, it's not a miracle of aid for the indigenous... a small area miles south of the park for people to walk, shop, park, spend money would benefit the community on the rim in general, a lot, a whole lot of jobs from Valet parking to who knows what would be filled by Navajos and there are multiple projects that have been proposed by the Natives aside from this that have been stuffed as well or faced opposition for no real reason. This has the media play...yah because it's 70 percent white people pushing...

Regardless, the locals would never, ever, ever let anything run out of control in growth, neither Navajo or Caucasian, we aren't asking for an international airport and football team and never will lol, we have the Lumberjacks at NAU it's plenty... It's the only Dark Skies town in America I think, you'd enjoy the stars.

No one here would ever let it get out of control, it will never be.... with the Hookers and crime like people are saying lol

A nice mall along the road a couple of amusement parks, jobs for people, a bit more accessible...

Come on, your one of the science gurus around here, your aware of the environment of Flagstaff a the Observatory, you know how ridiculously eco friendly everyone here is i'm sure. If it can be approved locally it's fine...

Above all, you know the numbers my friend, your good at visualizing vast spaces i'm sure from reading your posts over the years. In the end there would never be development of more than a percent a single percent over the next century a percent of a percent. I'ts minuscule. No one wants to build Gotham, maybe a wooden roller coaster by the same name.... 50 miles from the rim off the hwy.






edit on 5-3-2016 by criticalhit because: (no reason given)




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