British False Flag Gun Grab

a reply to: destination now

I'd love to own a handgun, seeing as I wind up the scum who take part in a False Flag events. The possibility of someone trying a third time to kill me for my activism is always on my mind. But I know I'm too volatile to be sensible, so just as well we have restrictions.

You can kill far more with a hijacked lorry.

Crazy, unbelievable ricochets happen to anyone who does a lot of shooting. My own experience of an unbelievable ricochet is so bizarre I couldn't believe it myself when it happened. I was attempting to demonstrate gun safety at the time. From this I deduced there is no such thing as gun safety.

My relative who worked for the Australian security services as a false flag terrorist killed a man with the gun provided for him by his handlers. There was tension between the two of them. The other guy reached into his jacket. My relative pulled out his gun and shot the man several times. He fell back and a pack of cards fell from his hand. He was about to offer a card game to break the tension. Whoops, dead. At least that's the most consistent story we've heard. It may have been modified. When they chose him for the Hilton Bombing they chose a world class liar.

originally posted by: destination now
a reply to: EvillerBob

OK, re-phrase, why would anyone want to use a hand gun...yes, I know you've just given your reasons, but personally I can't see the attraction, and I do realise that is my personal belief, but I do worry about lots of people having access to lots of guns, therefore I was glad that access to hand guns are restricted in the UK.

And I entirely support you in not personally seeing the attraction. If someone wants to come out and say "I just don't like the idea", that's absolutely as valid as my saying "because I want to". I really don't have any issue with that. What I dislike it when people take a personal opinion and wrap it up as something else with no actual basis or evidence to support it.

I share your concerns about access as well. However, as cliched as it sounds, it is absolutely true that the law really only affects the law-abiding. Those who do not wish to follow the law have not been noticeably affected. There are strings of shootings on a regular basis in the UK using weapons which were never legally in the country - in other words, they haven't found their way from a legitimate owner to the criminal underworld, they were smuggled in illegally from the very start. Some time ago they even found a shed with CNC machines set up to produce firearm components.

Remember the Letitia Shakespeare shooting? The gun used in that was a kind of gun that was made illegal for civilian ownership in the 1930s, roughly 40 years before that specific make/model was even designed. It was never, ever legal in the UK. That didn't stop it being used.

Remember the two police officers ambushed by Dale... Cruggin? Craggen? I forget the exact name. He used a hand-grenade. A hand-grenade. What firearm law allowed him to get hold of that?

The list goes on. Imported guns, converted guns - heck, I think one Eastern European country recently discovered a brand new design of handgun that was being illegally manufactured from scratch, the first the authorities knew about it was when they found some during a raid.

The legit shooting community is very tight-knit and self-policing. Did you know that one of the first steps in getting a license is a 12 month supervised period at a club, with controlled access to specific club firearms? As a range officer, one of my duties is to watch probationary members and add a short summary of behaviour for each visit. Part of the application process involves the club checking those attendance records and deciding whether or not to support the application? We're probably your biggest allies in weeding out the undesirables and unbalanced folk. It rankles a bit when we get painted as the criminals.

a reply to: destination now

Cars are not designed to kill, but some drivers want to kill you and get a slap on the wrist at the most.

As a former bicycle commuter who had a camera set into my rucksack facing backwards I can say without doubt, some drivers want to cause your death and then say it was an accident.

After a close pass from behind I would examine the footage to see if there was something different I could have done. Some drivers see you, their eyes light up, then they swoop in for a close pass inches away. Just as well I don't get to carry a handgun.

a reply to: EvillerBob

Some friends doing tree surgery at an Army camp were offered hand grenades for sale. They politely declined.

a reply to: EvillerBob

I agree, illegal guns are a problem. I am glad though that there is such a rigorous scheme to monitor those who are using guns legally. I suppose I would just hate if the UK became like the US in terms of general gun ownership, where people who are not as well trained as you can carry guns around with them all the time.

I think also the fact that it is coming up to the anniversary of Dunblane, an event that deeply affected me, because I never thought that something like that could happen in Scotland, has just re=affirmed my personal fear of guns so I know I am biased due to that. However I also believe in freedom of choice, and properly owned and used guns within a safe environment shouldn't be an issue.

a reply to: Kester

Yes, I suppose there are bad people everywhere, and that's why I think that the least damage the can do, the better. But I do agree that a car can be a very dangerous weapon in the wrong hands

originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: destination now

Cars are not designed to kill, but some drivers want to kill you and get a slap on the wrist at the most.

Another interesting point brought up on a regular basis.

If all guns are designed to kill, then so are all bows and all swords. Including fencing foils and Olympic archery equipment.

In my cabinet I've got one rifle definitely "designed and manufactured to kill". It's a 1940's Lee Enfield No. 4 - the old British WW2 battle rifle. Even so, it was never issued and to the best of my knowledge it's never fired a shot in anger - and almost certainly never will.

I've got another rifle "designed to kill". It's an AR15 carbine - more recognisable as the civilian version of the US M4 rifle. It certainly wasn't manufactured to kill. In fact, it was made in the UK only a few years ago. Just like a modern reproduction of an old English War Bow; designed, yes, but never in the mind of the manufacturer or purchaser.

I've got others that were definitely not designed to kill anything more than bits of paper. Not designed, not manufactured. Just like those cheap bows you can buy in some larger sports equipment shops, or the ones they give kids at "archery club" in school. Just like the fencing foils and sabers that I have upstairs, from back in the days when I was fitter rather than fatter. Heck, I even stabbed people with them - deliberately! - though always in the name of sport.

Even if someone wants to explain away archery as "well it could be used for hunting", how do you explain away fencing? When did the sword become a popular hunting tool?

If people can accept that bows and arrows can be repurposed, that swords can be repurposed... why not firearms? Fire rate and capacity? Sure, they're greater, but that isn't grounds for the vitriol received. Why do people find it positive to send little Tarquin off on his adventure holiday with fencing and archery... but target shooting? Heavens forbid! No, much better to send little Tarquin to his weekly Iaido class, a martial art build around killing people as efficiently as possible with the very expensive shinken they're buying him for his birthday.

Some guns are absolutely designed to kill. However, the same qualities that make them good for that role (reliability, ease of use, capacity, etc) can also potentially make them excellent sporting firearms.

originally posted by: destination now
a reply to: EvillerBob

I agree, illegal guns are a problem. I am glad though that there is such a rigorous scheme to monitor those who are using guns legally. I suppose I would just hate if the UK became like the US in terms of general gun ownership, where people who are not as well trained as you can carry guns around with them all the time.

I think also the fact that it is coming up to the anniversary of Dunblane, an event that deeply affected me, because I never thought that something like that could happen in Scotland, has just re=affirmed my personal fear of guns so I know I am biased due to that. However I also believe in freedom of choice, and properly owned and used guns within a safe environment shouldn't be an issue.

The thing is, what most of "us" are asking for is to extend the range of ownership within the same framework. Same licensing, same requirements, but more options (handguns, semi-auto rifles) to the people who can meet those requirements. If the system is properly enforced it's actually a very solid and effective system.

We're not saying "loosen the requirements", we're saying "keep the requirements, we'll work with you to keep them properly enforced because that's how our community works, but in return drop this strange contradiction that someone is safe enough to own a tried and proven battle rifle with a thousand-meter range but not safe enough to own a tiny pea-shooter that could barely pop a balloon at 10 meters".

I want to be very clear that none of these discussions should take away from the very real tragedy that happened in Dunblane. Nobody is questioning how terrible that event was and, as cliched as it sounds, I still remember where I was when I first heard about it; who I was sitting with, what we were doing. I was sitting with a group of friends including a guy called Kristian. He suddenly turned to me and said "Some guy just shot up a school full of little kids". It took me a couple of seconds to realise he was wearing his earbuds and listening to the radio on his Walkman. It was this surreal moment. We found a radio and tuned in to listen as the news came through, getting worse each time.

Why do I challenge these Dunblane thread, then? If we all agree it was so terrible, why do I resist the gun control that came after it? Because I think it's misleading and, to be blunt, manipulative to focus on the tools used. The fact is that several people in his community had been raising flags over his behaviour. Not tiny little flags, either. Great big whopping red ones. Flags that would absolutely have my FAC removed in a heartbeat if any of them were raised against me... but Hamilton seemed to make a mockery out of the system. That's what needed to be fixed, not rather random decisions over what shape piece of metal you can own.

did you know the tennis star Andy Murray was a pupil at the school at the time of the incident?

"Murray, and elder brother Jamie were pupils at Dunblane Primary School where Thomas Hamilton killed 16 children and one teacher on March 13, 1996, opening fire on a class of five and six-year-olds in the gymnasium with four handguns.

Murray had been walking to the gym when the shootings had begun."

ARTICLE

a reply to: EvillerBob

Able to make a mockery of the system due to his alleged connections, perhaps.

. . . former NATO Boss Lord Robertson . . .
Lord Robertson, a self-confessed Freemasonic member of Edinburgh’s sinister “Speculative Society” lodge, who enjoyed a peculiarly close personal relationship with Thomas Hamilton, the mass murderer of abused children in Dunblane, failed to sue the Sunday Herald for libel and promptly disappeared from public life. Police records revealed that Robertson had helped expedite the process by which the Manchurian Candidate, Hamilton, already a convicted child molester with known affiliations to the British elite, was able to obtain gun licenses.

www.thetruthseeker.co.uk...

a reply to: RoScoLaz4

And he hates to be reminded of it.

a reply to: EvillerBob

That was an excellent post, starred and has given me a lot to think about, whilst I personally will never own or use a gun, you have presented a very good argument as to why, with the continued framework in which you operate, that perhaps the regulations should be tweaked, because sadly, as you say it is not the responsible, decent people who commit atrocious crimes, with legal guns..(Thomas Hamilton excepted, but he was neither responsible or decent) but the ever present, criminal underworld, tackling that is probably of far greater value than preventing, organised, well trained, vetted individuals take part in the sport of their choice.

And yes...I remember exactly where I was when I started hearing the news, I went immediately to pick up my daughter from her childminder, who was picking up her 5 year old from the primary school across the road...I'll never forget the atmosphere at the school gates, parent's crying, and hugging their children, and just thinking oh my god, how? why?. tears are currently running down my face, just thinking about it, that this was happening less than 100 miles away, it was just unbelievable, it had an enormous impact on me, as I was a young mum at the time, and knew so many kids just like those who were murdered..20 years on and I will never forget.

I was actually in Dunblane that day. Was driving on my way to Edinburgh. And suddenly noticed more coppers than I'd ever seen in my life everywhere.


I'm very proud what we did as a nation in the wake of that. 20 years ago, and there's only been what, one mass shooting incident since? Because we, as a nation, said we must make sure nothing like this can happen again, and we got rid of the vast majority of our guns.

I know that Andy Murray doesn't want to be reminded of such a terrible event...who would?

However, he, more than most, knows the importance of triumphing over adversity, which he has done, brilliantly, and today, this is what he has to say...



www.facebook.com...

Let us hope, that we in the UK, never experience such horror and evil again, and that across the world, no one should ever have to feel this pain.

13/03/96

originally posted by: starviego
Hamilton allegedly brought his guns to school inside a camera case. Or maybe he had film cameras inside that camera case, raising the possibility that a snuff film was made of the massacre. Four guns were found at the scene, according to an off-duty policeman who was first to arrive, raising the possibility of other gunmen.

And somehow he managed to shoot himself twice in the head just to make sure , something was not right about that guy with his connections to the higher ups

a reply to: Painterz

No point disagreeing when we obviously have different opinions, but I would question the accuracy of your numbers.

The amnesty and buyback program led to the surrender of 162,000 weapons and 700 tons of ammunition.[

www.loc.gov...

Gun ownership in England and Wales
. . .
How many legally-held guns are out there? Around 1.8m, it turns out.

www.theguardian.com...

It would take time to get a the full data.

I'm sure it is far from the vast majority of guns that were given up following the Dunblane False Flag.