God is good, his justice isn't violent.

a reply to: Subnatural

Are you another arm chair scientist questioning a real scientists statement or are you just smarter than them?

Irrelevant to theology depends on your own personal beliefs. I find that the immensely low odds of the Universe being a random meaningless occurrence very relevant to my theology. Nothing exists that wasn't created, and creations need a creator. You can be a pagan and worship nature or a Christian and worship 3 Gods or a Muslim and just one. You can be an atheist too.

I think intelligent design makes a hell of a lot more sense than the big bang theory. No matter how much you believe in the big bang theory it's always just a theory just like religion. Science is no closer to discovering our origins than religion and is never going to without other-worldly assistance. People are actually as attached to the big bang theory and defend it as vehemently as a Christian does his/her beliefs. But they are both imaginary. Its not very scientific to say there was a tiny point of unknown origin that went boom and spend years theorizing how the planets and stars came to exist out of this boom that we don't know the cause of or if it even happened.

Nobody knows. We just guess.

a reply to: Sassanid

I think intelligent design makes a hell of a lot more sense than the big bang theory. No matter how much you believe in the big bang theory it's always just a theory just like religion.

You should check out the book i linked previously; i think you'd get along and it may provide alternate avenues of thinking along these lines.

a reply to: EmpathicBandit

K will do.

originally posted by: EmpathicBandit
Herein lies the real questions. No matter how we answer the question of God, what remains to be asked is; why? while i dont believe in the personification of consciousness as a deity, it stands to reason that consciousness constructed this place for a reason, and we will - presumably - be left to wonder why, as long as we remain a part of it..

but that allows us each to find our own reason for existence.. if consciousness is all there really is, then perhaps we got bored and decided to create an arena within our existence for the purpose of experiencing all that we are capable of. If eternal, this could lead to an infinitely expanding universe of possibilities with unimaginable functions of existence.

This is an interesting question, I agree. And I don't believe in God as a personification of consciousness (this seems all wrong to me). And I don't think that any consciousness is necessary for the construction of this universe, although it might be that a some external consciousness, which we can call God, did this. We simply can't know, in my opinion.

I'm not sure about your second paragraph. We may have found ourselves existing, and creating all sorts of things. But the question of "why" still remains. Even if we are already Gods, we surely did not create ourselves. Or cause ourselves. Why?

Well, it's a very modern question. Maybe it's not even that important. We just have to wait it out, maybe. Still, maybe not. Keep asking why.

a reply to: Subnatural

And I don't think that any consciousness is necessary for the construction of this universe, although it might be that a some external consciousness, which we can call God, did this. We simply can't know, in my opinion.

granted. we can't know.

however, i think there is a contradiction - possibly only in the words used - with what you say about any consciousness being unnecessary for creation of the universe. If we can posit that some outside source created it all, then what is our consciousness? surely it can not be separate from the greater consciousness we perceive as external? If that is all that is, then we must be a part of it. Energy can not be created or destroyed, only segregated and altered, made to appear separate, and given the illusion of autonomy from the whole..

for instance - we can imagine a scenario in our mind with fictional characters who have their own personalities, whether its writing or reading a fiction or schizophrenia or delusions or whatever it is, we have the capacity to create a functioning reality in our own minds without any external factors. Consciousness gives us this ability.

(think mind mapping, meditation, visualization, etc - immaterial constructs of our own design perceptible only to us)

is it not reasonable, then, to assume that we could be the figments of a greater consciousness' fantastical ramblings of fantasy and illusion? that perhaps, when we sleep, we are integrated back into the whole, somewhat like when we abandon a day dream or fantasy to do something "real" before returning to our own fiction?

you make excellent points, and i remain agreeable to not having the capacity to know - but its the capacity to consider that really puts us in the realm of conscious awareness and "divinity" - the ability to create, seemingly from nothing, an entirely new narrative that exists nowhere but our own minds.

to me, this shows a direct correlation to what could or even should be above us in hierarchy..

similarly, all cells in our body are part of their systems, which are part of organs, which are part of greater systems, which are parts of our body which is a whole, which is part of a family, which is part of a community, which is part of a region which is part of a nation which is part of a planet, from which the ecosystems grow and support the systems we know as life. our earth is part of a system, which is a part of a galaxy, which is part of a cluster, which is part of a supercluster, which is part of our observable universe, which is part of ???

each of these individual parts, down to the smallest cell, acts autonomously and therefor contains some level of consciousness awareness or "being".

with these things in mind, it is reasonable, IMO, to conclude:

we are a microcosmic representation of the whole, as the maple, so the sapling - we contain consciousness, of which we are a fragment. It is the ultimate paradox.

the secrets of creation lay in the presence of paradox

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.


EmBa