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Masons here at ATS say the Mason belief has no religion?

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posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: DeathSlayer
Not all Masons are given a Bible in my Lodge. We've given the Torah and Koran to new Master Masons as well.

You say that we're a religious sect, that we're wicked, and that we're evil, but have yet to provide any evidence.


There are thousands of better ways to serve mankind.

And how do you do that? Starting frivolous threads?

a reply to: DeathSlayer
Yes, yes, if its on YouTube or some website, and confirms my bias, it must be true. LOL

a reply to: Kali74
They do get messy.

a reply to: intrptr
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Doodle19815
That it was an obligation taken to God and that I will never break it.

a reply to: dollukka
So AM's post speaks for the opinion of all Freemasons and the Masonic fraternity?

a reply to: dollukka
In the legend, Hiram Abiff is not resurrected nor is he a messianic figure.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
That's what I keep hearing.




posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: KSigMason

While I appreciate your reply, the question was directed towards Woodcarver. One would assume that an oath given on a Bible is subjected to ones beliefs. I just question what giving an oath on a Bible means to an atheist, that is all.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: Doodle19815

And that is a very valid question. Maybe oath given by mason, there should be used masonic bible instead.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 03:56 PM
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a reply to: DeathSlayer

It's not a "masonic bible". It's more of a handbook, or so I've been reliably informed.

I stand corrected on there not being a book at all...which is retrospect was kind of stupid on my part to say.




posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 04:13 PM
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originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: Doodle19815

And that is a very valid question. Maybe oath given by mason, there should be used masonic bible instead.


There is no such thing as a "Masonic" Bible . It is nothing more than a KJV Bible with a few extra pages and a Square and Compasses on the cover .

I have several Bibles . I have one with a S & C( gift from my wife when I became a Master Mason) , one with an Eagle , Globe and Anchor ( from my Mother when I went to war) and one with my family crest with a few extra pages of family tree and history . ALL KJV Bibles , nothing more . Save for a few extra pages in the front..... SAME BIBLES . One is no more a Masonic Bible than the other is a Marine Corps Bible , just Bibles . Just cost a little more for embossed covers and filler pages than a plain one .

And I am no longer even Christian . I am a Deist (why I quit the Commandery) but they still buy me KJV Bibles .

You people do realize you can order Bibles with all kinds of things on them , correct ? Personal Names , groups , emblems , etc etc .
edit on 4-3-2016 by whenandwhere because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: whenandwhere

Not sure who "you people" was directed at...

I assure you that I know a Bible is a Bible no matter what the front emblem is. I personally love thumbing through the Masonic Bible that was my Granfathers because of the pretty pictures and gold leaf edges. They just don't make them like they used to.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 05:34 PM
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a reply to: Doodle19815

You people are those , lol , claiming we have our own Bible just because their is a S & C on the cover . Not you, sorry for the misunderstanding .

My "family" Bible always fasinated me . Loved the crest on the cover and reading about our Irish history . Thing is huge .



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 01:51 AM
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a reply to: dollukka
There's really no such thing as a "Masonic Bible". The Bible used in most Masonic Lodges is the KJV, but this does vary depending on the jurisdiction and language of the Lodge.

a reply to: whenandwhere
I also got one for going through the chair degree of the Royal Arch. It had a place for all of the different bodies of the York Rite plus a place for family history.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 04:10 AM
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originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: DeathSlayer

You can't be an atheist an be a Mason.



originally posted by: Woodcarver
Do you think less of me because i don't believe? Do you think i shouldn't have been admitted?


I feel an atheist can't really learn the true secrets of Freemasonry.

Sure, you may still benefit a lot from the camaraderie,the discipline, the fellowship etc., and it would still probably be extremely enjoyable for you, and also for your Brethren to have you there, but I feel an atheist can never truly participate in the speculative nature of Freemasonry, and will not ever be able to use the Craft to find that which he is seeking.


edit on 5/3/2016 by Saurus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 04:20 PM
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originally posted by: Saurus

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: DeathSlayer

You can't be an atheist an be a Mason.



originally posted by: Woodcarver
Do you think less of me because i don't believe? Do you think i shouldn't have been admitted?


I feel an atheist can't really learn the true secrets of Freemasonry.

Sure, you may still benefit a lot from the camaraderie,the discipline, the fellowship etc., and it would still probably be extremely enjoyable for you, and also for your Brethren to have you there, but I feel an atheist can never truly participate in the speculative nature of Freemasonry, and will not ever be able to use the Craft to find that which he is seeking.

Would you mind explaining why, instead of just stating it? Because i very much disagree. Even most religious books have plenty of interesting propositions to gleen some insight from. Viewing these books from a different perspective gives me insight that you might never come to. The allegorical stories make the same sense to me as they do to you. Do you really believe that my thoughts are so different from yours as to make me confused and confounded? Don't let your pride and ego blind you. For then you are the one who cannot see.

The collective bigotry that atheists (me, i guess) are recieving on this very thread is appalling, but to see this bigotry come from my fellow brothers is eye opening. At which point does your hypocrisy open your eyes?
edit on 5-3-2016 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)


Is your prejudice justified simply because it is written in a book, because these are the rules, we've always done it this way? Because that sounds frighteningly closed minded, which is quite opposite of the virtue and honor which should be exemplified in the life of someone who has taken the oaths to become a mason in the first place. Atheists are just as interested in defining morals, and living up to those expectations as any one else. If you do not agree with that, then you are not in touch with the situation.

Open your minds and come out of the stone age. I have seen at least some of you in this thread who have accepted and speak up for other unpopular demographics. But now that you find an atheist in your non religious group, you speak out against me, call me a liar, and recommend that i should be pushed out of the group, and that i couldn't possibly get anything from it? Is this the way we are to behave?
edit on 5-3-2016 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 05:00 PM
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originally posted by: Doodle19815
a reply to: KSigMason

While I appreciate your reply, the question was directed towards Woodcarver. One would assume that an oath given on a Bible is subjected to ones beliefs. I just question what giving an oath on a Bible means to an atheist, that is all.
I do not take oathes on bibles. I don't give any more credit to others when they take oathes on bibles either. I treat oathes and promises on equal terms. If my words and reputation are not enough for you, then you do not have to believe my promises. Does a bible oath mean more to you than your word without your hand on a bible?

Do you also give extra merit to triple dog dares?
edit on 5-3-2016 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

Oh my, triple dog dares are much more serious here for sure!


Like I said, not picking on you, just trying to see it from another's perspective. Keep in mind, I am not a Mason, so I don't know if you held your hand on a Bible when giving an oath or not. I didn't know if perhaps that would be questioned by other Masons that you would, yet not believe in the book that your hand was on.

Thank you for the reply. I kind of figured my question would go unanswered.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 11:38 PM
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I am a Freemason, and a lot of this thread makes me laugh... You want to know what We do and believe in? Become a mason!
edit on 5-3-2016 by samlf3rd because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 11:52 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
He posted an 8 minute video at 4:10, and you retorted at 4:12. Just because it is laughable does not mean you should post a default reply without watching it.



posted on Mar, 5 2016 @ 11:53 PM
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a reply to: SargonThrall
Do you think that the video presents anything which has not been presented 100 times before?



posted on Mar, 6 2016 @ 12:12 AM
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a reply to: DeathSlayer

I'm a mason. And we have no bible apart from a standard King James bible used in ritual.

No bible is given to any mason in my lodge.

Also, the majority of my lodge are actually atheists - in the sense that we don't believe in a sentient being in a toga and a white beard.

We believe in Life and energy and spirituality -- which is completely different to religion.

How did anything AugustusMasonicus say "admit" to anything? He didn't.
edit on 6-3-2016 by noonebutme because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2016 @ 01:25 AM
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a reply to: Woodcarver
How can you say you're a Freemason, but not uphold the Ancient Landmarks?



posted on Mar, 6 2016 @ 01:31 AM
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originally posted by: Saurus

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: DeathSlayer

You can't be an atheist an be a Mason.



originally posted by: Woodcarver
Do you think less of me because i don't believe? Do you think i shouldn't have been admitted?


I feel an atheist can't really learn the true secrets of Freemasonry.

Sure, you may still benefit a lot from the camaraderie,the discipline, the fellowship etc., and it would still probably be extremely enjoyable for you, and also for your Brethren to have you there, but I feel an atheist can never truly participate in the speculative nature of Freemasonry, and will not ever be able to use the Craft to find that which he is seeking.


Curious, can you pinpoint how this would come to be? Why would the non-religious/non-Christians not measure up?
One can say someone can never be as good a Christian as a Christian, but I've met Pagans, Hindus, etc that understand the book just as well (better, in some cases) than practicing Christians. Non-Christians who would, by many Christians' own bullet-point checklist, exude the virtues, ethics and morals much closer to Jesus himself than even the devout do.

The book doesn't make you exemplary. It's still just a book. YOU make you exemplary.

Edit: ^^ That last line goes double for religion in general. It's up to you to be awesome, influence or not.
edit on 3/6/2016 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2016 @ 01:35 AM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver

The collective bigotry that atheists (me, i guess) are recieving on this very thread is appalling, but to see this bigotry come from my fellow brothers is eye opening. At which point does your hypocrisy open your eyes?


Brother, I am not trying to judge you, but my post was rather a commentary on the Nature of Freemasonry as I see it.


Would you mind explaining why, instead of just stating it?


Doesn't Freemasonry charge us to "study the hidden mysteries of Nature and Science, the better to know our maker"? Pretty pointless if you don't believe in a Maker, no?

Perhaps the First and second Degrees don't explicitly require a belief in a Maker - in the first Degree, we are initiated into the system of Freemasonry and the lessons in this Degree are primarily about our relationship with our fellow man - charity, mercy etc. The second Degree deals with developing the intellect and presents lessons on how to live.

But what about the Third Degree and the additional Orders?

The third Degree teaches us how to die. The lessons contained in this Degree are that we need not fear death, because an afterlife exists. As TheBorg on this site once said: "The requirement of belief in a deity to join a lodge is important in that it establishes that you have a belief in a continuance of self after death. This particular concept is important to Freemasons because it means that there's something worth working towards. This then engenders a behavioral pattern more akin to that of a master builder building a monument to all that will survey it."

Then the purpose of many of the additional Orders is to speculate on the nature of our Maker. Rather pointless if you don't believe in a Supreme being. What lesson could you possibly learn from the Scottish Rite or Rose Croix if you don't believe in a Supreme Being? What about the Word in the Royal Arch? What can you speculate on if you don't believe in God?

Perhaps I should ask you - what lessons (secrets) have you learned from the Royal Arch or Scottish Rite Degrees? What philosophical/theological lessons have you gained from these Degrees? What have you taken out of the 18th Degree, for example? How can you possible discover the secrets of these Degrees, which are to instill a better understanding of the nature of the Creator though speculation, if you don't believe in a Creator?

As I said in my previous post, there is still, perhaps, a lot to be gained from Masonry by an atheist, but so much of the speculative nature of Freemasonry would be lost to an atheist.


edit on 6/3/2016 by Saurus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2016 @ 01:42 AM
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originally posted by: Nyiah

The book doesn't make you exemplary. It's still just a book. YOU make you exemplary.


A agree with you. I think organized religion and Holy books are simply tools to help us formalize social norms and to guide us on how to live. I am neither Christian nor religious.

I disagree with some of my Brethren who say that the belief in a Supreme being is merely to make one's obligation more binding. One's word should be one's word. If placing one's hand on a Holy Book to take an obligation carries the weight that they claim, then why have the symbolic penalties at all? It doesn't make sense to me.

On the other hand, a large part of speculative Masonry is to dwell on the nature of the Creator. This leads to an increased understanding of our relationship with God and of purpose in life, which is achieved through first having a better personal understanding of our Creator; hence being an atheist defeats the object altogether.


edit on 6/3/2016 by Saurus because: (no reason given)



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