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What is the right-wing resolution to healthcare, anyways?

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posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:16 AM
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Don't you remember their solution? Don't get sick or if you do save enough money to pay for it.




posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: matafuchs

My unanswered question still is...

Would dishonest insurance companies suddenly just be... Compelled to be honest and give better pricing because we open up the borders, or would they merge and take more control?

Would new companies have a chance, if the old companies were still favored by the government and such, could anyone take on giants? ?

Try opening up a small grocery store by Walmart and tell me how you do.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:21 AM
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a reply to: damwel

I'd be amazingly happy to do that if our economical circumstances reflected true free market capitalistic ideas.. Rather than the right continuously justifying the trickle of money to the top.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

To be honest, the only way would be to do it. I know quite a few people who own businesses in different states and there is no reason to pay 1500 a month in one state and 900 in another. If you create no borders, suddenly they will be fighting each other for a 800 a month to secure customers. The control has to be taken from the providers and put back in the hands of businesses. Their margins and profits may drop but they will still need the same amount of people to process what they are doing. No job loss.

I also would not open a small grocery store by a WalMart. That would be like kicking a pitbull in the nuts and expecting a happy ending....



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:25 AM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Vroomfondel

This idea has been presented a few times in this thread now, but my line of questioning is..

When interstate insurance did not exist, when insurance companies were making a ton of money.. That wasn't good enough. They wrote obamacare and it was implemented.

Why are we trusting that these same companies be honest?

Why are we trusting that any new, more honest company could make it? Without government favoritism.....

It seems the more we talk on this thread, the more the answer is to jail all insurance companies ceos, our president, senators and congressman, and start over.


To be honest, I can think of worse things than jailing them all and starting over...

The interstate idea is already there to some degree. I worked in Illinois and had BCBS but it was from Alabama. They made a better offer I guess. And that is the point. If an insurer is willing to knock a few dollars off the price, or add some coverage, or offer the 250-500 employee price point to a company with 200 employees, that is when the system will start being genuinely competitive and become more affordable. Of course, all bets are off, if everything is rigged and price fixing is happening. I hate to say it, but we probably passed the point of accepting excessive greed as a normal business practice and put an end to competition driven prices in the process.

How about this: scrap all of it as it exists now. Expand medicare to cover all legal citizens. Illegal? - you pay cash, up front. Eliminate the VA. Put veterans in the real healthcare system and give them a deeply discounted rate in exchange for their service. The VA would have been a great idea had it provided superior care and service. But it didn't. So lets get our veterans some decent healthcare from the same system the rest of us use. Oh, and make congress use it too...



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:31 AM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: matafuchs

My unanswered question still is...

Would dishonest insurance companies suddenly just be... Compelled to be honest and give better pricing because we open up the borders, or would they merge and take more control?

Would new companies have a chance, if the old companies were still favored by the government and such, could anyone take on giants? ?

Try opening up a small grocery store by Walmart and tell me how you do.


You keep asking and we keep telling you.... YES! Good lord, how many examples must be provided?

Competition is what keeps prices down and compels companies to look after the needs of their customers. So what if Wal-Mart is a behemoth? As I pointed out, it wasn't always and like many of the thousands of other mega-corps that have failed, Wal-Mart will too at some point. I'm sure plenty of people thought Sears would always be the big dog on the block. K-Mart too. Heck, I remember when Target pretty much went out of business until it was resurrected with a better strategy.

A small business that offers the right mix of products, prices, and service can compete against Wal-Mart. I see small coffee shops located two doors down from a Starbucks doing just fine because they are offering something of value to their customers.

Remember when a little upstart called Apple was challenging IBM? Most millennials probably haven't even heard of IBM or know that Apple at one point was close to failing.

Insurance companies are like any other business. When they have to compete, they will. This is why Geico say save 15% because they want people to call them because they believe they are cheaper than the competition. State Farm says call us because we have better coverage and service.

Right now, because of GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION, I cannot effectively shop for insurance plans because they are tied to my employer. I can't find a better company located in another state that may offer the coverage I want and need. The insurance companies have very little incentive to compete fiercely because all the government barriers have esentnially made each state an oligopoly and consumers are trapped because it is provided through the employer.

the way it should work is that you go buy your insurance like you do your car insurance. Get online, contact an agent, or whatever and find the coverage and price that best suits you. Keep the employer out of it. if government wants to provide a subsidy, they should pay it to you directly, not the employer which is what happens now.

Prices would fall overnight with these simple changes. The vast majority of people would be able to afford good coverage at cheaper prices. For those who are indigent, government could subsidize.
edit on 4-3-2016 by Edumakated because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:32 AM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

I think all government workers should follow laws just as much as people.

Cops need to go to trial when they shoot an innocent.

Politicians need to use our same Healthcare, pay our same taxes, and such.

There's a lot I wish would happen... Does anyone have a platform for changing the government? Bernie is going after banks and such... But I hear he's not for term limits.
Really, against term limits? That's why things are so bad!

I like the idea of expanding Medicare - you could even work within it to offer different levels of coverage honestly - in the form of a raised tax that already exists.

Getting rid of the VA, insurance companies, and billing issues at hospitals would greatly reduce costs.

Not covering illegals is also a good idea.. Its actually a huge argument of the right against universal health care. How will we afford illegals.?

Then again, if they pay taxes as well, I don't see why the system would collapse if it absorbed them, and taxed them.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:37 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Have you already answered why, then, is obamacare written by insurance companies? Geeze this conversation is cyclical.

That was the market interfering with the public and the government. Not the other way around. Stop trying to twist it!

I'm not replying to any more Posts of yours if you don't address the obamacare situation.

Companies got big, they got rich, they got into the government with that power.

Capitalism creates corrupt corporations. It's proven, it's factual.

Why wouldn't this sector follow the trend... They already did when they had less power, less access across borders...



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

The United States was a moral society at one point. The founders were strongly moral people and our Constitution reflects that. The separation of powers in our government was to keep immoral politicians from grabbing all the power for themselves and prevent a totalitarian state.

The early US also had a number of famous inventors and it quickly changed from a poor mostly agricultural economy to an economic powerhouse.

So it's not fantasy. But I agree our country is presently so corrupt it's dysfunctional. What we need to do right now is clean house.

Did you know there is a genetic test for psychopathy? It would be possible in the future to bar psychopaths from holding positions of public office. Psychopaths are probably the main reason governments become so corrupt that they inevitably crash and burn (the fall of Rome being a classic example). IMO it would be a step in the right direction.

www.smithsonianmag.com...

But when he underwent a series of genetic tests, he got more bad news. “I had all these high-risk alleles for aggression, violence and low empathy,” he says, such as a variant of the MAO-A gene that has been linked with aggressive behavior. Eventually, based on further neurological and behavioral research into psychopathy, he decided he was indeed a psychopath—just a relatively good kind, what he and others call a “pro-social psychopath,” someone who has difficulty feeling true empathy for others but still keeps his behavior roughly within socially-acceptable bounds.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:43 AM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Edumakated

Have you already answered why, then, is obamacare written by insurance companies? Geeze this conversation is cyclical.

That was the market interfering with the public and the government. Not the other way around. Stop trying to twist it!

I'm not replying to any more Posts of yours if you don't address the obamacare situation.

Companies got big, they got rich, they got into the government with that power.

Capitalism creates corrupt corporations. It's proven, it's factual.

Why wouldn't this sector follow the trend... They already did when they had less power, less access across borders...


O'care was written by insurance companies because the insurance companies know that the legislatures are going to do it regardless. If you are a company and you know politically, the government is going to regulate you and there is nothing you can do to stop it, you are going to try to influence it the best you can.

The answer is not giving even more power to government. The less involved government is, the less incentive any company has to lobby and get involved with regulation.

O'Care has killed many insurance companies. They are consolidating and losing money. No company is going to purposely do that to themselves. While it sounds like good conspiracy fodder, it is far from reality.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: peskyhumans

Well, yeah, and European countries practice what Americans falsely call socialism, and it works for a time - the countries with the happiest, most productive, less debt etc.... Practice ideas that Americans call ludicrous.

They call them ludicrous because they've seen such ideas evolve into worse things.

My argument? You need to adapt, a lot.

Free market capitalism and anti union and such will be good for a few years... But then the scales tip too far in one direction. Greed and money and power start accumulating and unethical rich people will use that to influence government.

Tip towards unions, higher taxation of business, more regulations, jailing of corrupt corporate men... This could be used now, in my opinion.. For a time. But we can't let this get out of control, either.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Hmm I understand what you are saying, but in our current political economical climate I can't agree.

Some of the biggest insurance companies grew from obamacare. Some are actually enjoying it quite a lot.... I'd say likely the most corrupt ones. The ones that will still be in business if you open the borders and give them control to merge and became a mega monolopy..which is also anti capitalistic.

Basically, I hear what you're saying... But our current government has their record.
The corporations have theirs.

We need replacements in both if we are to actually implement fair ideas that seem beneficial. Just my opinion

Your ideas are sound in theory.. Just not sure implementation is realistic. .

Universal health care is realistic. It appeals to the government, and their precious taxes. Still bad, I know.. But I'd rather a veteran or person with cancer have their life saved by this evil rather than assuming free market can do its work.

Fair and equal and honest Healthcare... Neither the rich, nor the government will allow this. You are correct about government intervention.. But that wont stop, even if borders are opened.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:55 AM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Edumakated

Hmm I understand what you are saying, but in our current political economical climate I can't agree.

Some of the biggest insurance companies grew from obamacare. Some are actually enjoying it quite a lot.... I'd say likely the most corrupt ones. The ones that will still be in business if you open the borders and give them control to merge and became a mega monolopy..which is also anti capitalistic.

Basically, I hear what you're saying... But our current government has their record.
The corporations have theirs.

We need replacements in both if we are to actually implement fair ideas that seem beneficial. Just my opinion

Your ideas are sound in theory.. Just not sure implementation is realistic. .

Universal health care is realistic. It appeals to the government, and their precious taxes. Still bad, I know.. But I'd rather a veteran or person with cancer have their life saved by this evil rather than assuming free market can do its work.

Fair and equal and honest Healthcare... Neither the rich, nor the government will allow this. You are correct about government intervention.. But that wont stop, even if borders are opened.


Government regulations almost always benefit the biggest companies over smaller companies. Just like Dodd-Frank killed small banks and made the Too Big Too Fail banks even bigger even though it claimed to do the opposite.

So again, why would you increase government involvement if all it does is the opposite of what you claim you want?

Insurance companies, hospitals, doctors groups, etc are all consolidating because of OCare because that is the only way they can survive. This means higher prices and less choice for consumers. The complete opposite of the intended purpose of the regulation.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 12:05 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

I'm saying I don't see it being realistic. Not that I don't want it.. I would enjoy if yours, and others in this threads ideas could thrive. Competition, less regulations, and such.. I just don't see the reality.

Universal health care is government supported and funded.. It doesn't favor any one business. I could be wrong but I haven't heard this being the case in Canada, or many European countries.

I hate obamacare but once again! It was written by the businesses... For the benefit of the businesses. The biggest players. It does not resemble Canada's Healthcare system in any way, shape or form.

I'm saying going forward, what's realistic?

I see a kid with cancer - I both hope he gets cured, and his family doesn't go broke.

Should we be Depending on both our government, and the businesses alike to become ethical, and allow a free market situation? Should we rely on honestly from all to help this theoretical child?

Or.. Allow the government a little bit more money in the way of taxes, and more power.. Yet the kid gets treatment and the family doesn't go bankrupt.

Universal health care seems the more realistic, more altruistic approach when talking realistically.

Idealistically.... Free market would be great! So long as things like Medicare stuck around for those unable to afford anything.

What is your idea... Realistically? As in... Can happen, might happen, in the real world?

You think our government will suddenly back off and lessen it's hold and power over this sector?



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 12:37 PM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Edumakated

I'm saying I don't see it being realistic. Not that I don't want it.. I would enjoy if yours, and others in this threads ideas could thrive. Competition, less regulations, and such.. I just don't see the reality.

Universal health care is government supported and funded.. It doesn't favor any one business. I could be wrong but I haven't heard this being the case in Canada, or many European countries.

I hate obamacare but once again! It was written by the businesses... For the benefit of the businesses. The biggest players. It does not resemble Canada's Healthcare system in any way, shape or form.

I'm saying going forward, what's realistic?

I see a kid with cancer - I both hope he gets cured, and his family doesn't go broke.

Should we be Depending on both our government, and the businesses alike to become ethical, and allow a free market situation? Should we rely on honestly from all to help this theoretical child?

Or.. Allow the government a little bit more money in the way of taxes, and more power.. Yet the kid gets treatment and the family doesn't go bankrupt.

Universal health care seems the more realistic, more altruistic approach when talking realistically.

Idealistically.... Free market would be great! So long as things like Medicare stuck around for those unable to afford anything.

What is your idea... Realistically? As in... Can happen, might happen, in the real world?

You think our government will suddenly back off and lessen it's hold and power over this sector?


How is modifying a few laws and modifications to the tax code harder to do than blowing up an entire trillion dollar industry to put in control of the government? You can't be serious.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 12:42 PM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

If you like your doctor, keep your doctor... but have the self responsibility to pay your doctor yourself for the services you are receiving for yourself. Pretty common sense, really. If I want to buy myself a new pair of boots, but lack the funds needed for the boots, I have a choice to make regarding resolution of my own finances to a point where I can buy those boots.... or, alternately, I go without the boots. Either way, it's a personal choice and personal financing issue, not a communal concern.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: deadlyhope

If you like your doctor, keep your doctor... but have the self responsibility to pay your doctor yourself for the services you are receiving for yourself. Pretty common sense, really. If I want to buy myself a new pair of boots, but lack the funds needed for the boots, I have a choice to make regarding resolution of my own finances to a point where I can buy those boots.... or, alternately, I go without the boots. Either way, it's a personal choice and personal financing issue, not a communal concern.

No, no.
The nanny state has to buy everyone boots, socks and they really should provide a pedicure if I am supposed to be happy like it says in the Declaration of Independence.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 12:58 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

The current situation does not advocate this mentality... Self responsibility and all.

When I go to the doctors office - I have to pay a HUGE billing staff, I have to pay for insurance companies this and that, government mandate and regulation this and that.... Prices are way too high to simply adopt the mentality of taking care of your own bills in my opinion.

I would love if we could go towards such a situation, though. Many in this thread have outlined ideas - One of my favorite is breaking up the businesses and government. They cannot be involved with each other.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Harder? I said more realistic.

What's more likely to happen?

A. The government gives up their cozy position with the corporate?

B.The government absorbs the corporate profit for themselves?

I say B is more likely to happen - I'm not saying it's what I want the most, just that it's more likely.

B also helps a kid get stitches, a mother cure her cancer, etc.. While A.. Won't happen ( in my opinion )

You're honestly saying a few dotting of i's and crossing of t's will completely divorce all insurance business from government? Dream on.

It would take repealing obamacare, and then instating new laws separating the government and the businesses.

I don't think the rich, nor the government are going to go for that.

Considering money is one of the biggest changers of legislation, rather than principle...



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
One of my favorite is breaking up the businesses and government. They cannot be involved with each other.


That's really the biggest thing. Much like how the federal subsidization and loosening of prerequisites/results for student loans has llowed colleges to charge astronomical tuition rates, the subsidization and "safety nets" of the government in the medical practices have allowed those charges to skyrocket. Remove the tax payer from the equation, force medical providers to actually compete for patients, while providing billing options that are reasonable, and watch the system reset itself to where it was at pre-federal interference. Of course, this means some fall through the cracks, but that is just social natural selection in action and must be allowed to happen or these stones will remain tied around all of our necks, dragging us all under eventually.



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