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What is the right-wing resolution to healthcare, anyways?

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posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: jjkenobi

Have you not been keeping up with this thread at all?

Obamacare is not single payer, it was not meant to help anyone, not designed to be good for anyone except the insurance companies. They wrote it.

The rich people... Usually Republican favorites, wrote this bill, and the Democrats passed it.. All men in DC are corrupt. This discussion is more about the ideas, the desires of right wing people.

Many on both sides can agree we need to kick out everyone currently in the three branches but that's another topic.




posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

Accept health care options from other countries whose standards meet or exceed our own (prescription drugs, for example... but also other services potentially). This alone would reduce the price of healthcare to such an extent that mandating coverage should no longer be necessary. I don't have numbers to back this up, but I'm willing to go out on a limb to say that prescription drug costs have a much larger impact on Americans than surgery. Secondly, renegotiate EVERY free trade agreement... if not abolish them altogether. People could afford health insurance, and many other things, if we'd stop giving our jobs away. But that last part would solve too many problems, so it won't ever happen.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Humans are not houses. We create houses and the money. We have just as much right to medical care as you.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: neveroddoreven99

You'd have to be close enough to a country or have the money to fly.. And have the cooperation of other countries, it doesn't seem realistic and seems like a logistical nightmare to be honest. I like that you're thinking out of the box though.

Prescription drugs could be gotten from elsewhere but that would just highly increase mail scanning and the like, possibly open up narcotics trading.

The tpp needs to be banned, and those involved hung for treason against the free world.

Nafta should be scrapped or redesigned as well..

And I believe we need other things.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3

Conservatives often believe that things are... Given to us. Like the grace of the billionaire allows us to live where we do, breathe the air we do. Our houses, our health care, our lives are just a byproduct of a rich man's grace. We are in debt to them, and always will be.

Any talk of wanting universal health care or the like, you get shot down quickly because that somehow infringes either on their own rights, or the rights of their master.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

Make health insurance illegal. If healthcare was purely capitalist (forcing everyone to either pay out of pocket, or use credit) then the bubble would pop. Yes there is a healthcare bubble, and it's huge.

Why should it cost 10's of thousands of dollars to do a surgery? Why do hospitals pay hundreds of thousands, sometimes millions, for pieces of equipment? Why do doctors make so much damned money compared to other professions that require the same amount of time in college?

The reason a given surgery might cost $50,000 to perform, is because that cost is subsidized by insurance companies. No one actually pays that cost out of pocket - that's the cost of a house and no one except the 1% could actually pay it. But the doctors perform expensive operations like this all the time, and because no one questions this is exactly why healthcare is becoming more and more expensive all the time.

So eliminate the insurance companies. Now everyone pays out of pocket and no one can afford that operation anymore. What do the hospitals and doctors do? They lower their prices to be more affordable or they go out of business. Yes if this happened many hospitals would go out of business, and many doctors would lose their jobs. But after the bubble pops, the healthcare industry would readjust and eventually doctors would adapt. Affordable hospitals would open, healthcare would become cheaper, in time things would get better.

Any attempt to "solve" our healthcare problem without popping the bubble is just staving off the inevitable and making things worse than it has to be.

All insurance does this by the way. Auto insurance makes cars more expensive. We didn't need all these stupid safety features 50 years ago (anti-lock brakes, airbags, electronic control) so why do we need them today? We don't. In fact, I would like to buy a new purely mechanical car. One that could survive an EMP blast and keep working like a charm, but they don't make mechanical cars anymore.

Go over to the economy or political forums and ATS is filled with socialists that hate capitalism that want to "fix" our country. They must have missed the last 7 years under Obama. Capitalism works 100% of the time. The reason our economy is failing is because it's not capitalist. It was, a long time ago. When pilgrims were building this country from nothing, and our money was made with real silver, and the Federal Reserve didn't exist, and banks didn't have a stranglehold over our economy, and "globalism" wasn't a word that existed in anyone's dictionary.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3

Medical care is not a "right". You cannot force someone to pay for or provide medical care to you.

Our healthcare system is broken and it is largely because of the unintended consequences of too much government involvement in the market.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated

And you cannot make us just lie down and die. No one has the right to let another suffer and die because of money. I think that should be manslaughter.

edit on 4-3-2016 by MOMof3 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: peskyhumans

Making insurance illegal and costs going down... I follow you there.

Capitalism works.. I don't follow you there.

Illegalizing insurance companies is a form of regulation, and anti capitalism in nature.

Capitalism is what makes corporations so huge that they literally write the legislation for our health care.... Obamacare was not written by Obama. It was written by rich people who didn't think capitalism was enough.

People get too rich, too powerful. I'd argue that socialism and capitalism could work, you just have to reset the government, or reset the business world.

Right now... We have both a huge government, which are puppets of the billionaires. It's the nightmare that capitalism can create, and the nightmare that socialism can create.

We have a huge, unethical, inefficient government.

And the billionaires are backing them.

There's no way we will go towards truly free markets and capitalism now. It wouldn't benefit the people that love the system we have devolved into.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhopething is generations are born and treated in NHS hospitals. I was born in an NHS hospital treated for 13 years and my niece was born in an NHS hospital last week, so another one who has received the benefits of this system. It's not perfect. There is always room for improvement as with any large organisation, but it works out as one of the best value healthcare systems in the world, paying less than America does in gdp per capita.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Too much market involved in the government, you mean?

Insurance companies wrote obamacare. The average cost to people went up, and the profits of some major players went up.

That's not the fault of the government alone. It's the fault of companies who don't think free market capitalism serves them well enough..

True, free market capitalism... Id bet all I have the fortune 500 company list would change dramatically every year, most not staying on the list more than a year.

Look up corporate lobbyists. Government bribery.. Obamacare.

Too much business involved in government.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 10:29 AM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Edumakated

And you cannot make us just lie down and die. No one has the right to let another suffer and die because of money. I think that should be manslaughter.


No one said you should lie down and die. People are very generous. It is a fallacy to think those of us who are against all this government involvement do not want people to have health care. What we want is for an efficient market so that the typical person can buy coverage similar to how the typical person can buy car insurance, home insurance, or any other product that is not to encumbered by government bureaucracy.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: woodwardjnr

I'm having a kid soon. My wife gets covered by state Medicare - Utah loves kids, infants, helping mothers with their costs, luckily.
edit on 4-3-2016 by deadlyhope because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 10:34 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

Insurance is nothing more than racketeering. In a moral society it would be illegal. It inflates prices and creates bubbles, and as such inherently introduces economic instability into a society.

College is another perfect example. Why does college cost so much? Because everyone and their mother is willing to go into 10's of thousands of dollars of debt via student loans to get a piece of paper. If the predatory policy of lending out huge amounts of money to students who obviously have no way to pay it back was ended, then the college bubble would pop and college would eventually become affordable again.

I don't see debt slavery as a product of a free market. I see it as a sign of government intervention. The manipulation of debt to move products and services is witchcraft as far as I'm concerned. The same for insurance.

There was a time in human history were everyone could only pay for things with real physical money, and not pieces of paper. It worked every time.
edit on 3/4/16 by peskyhumans because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Well, get it done. But the old way, no way. I went broke in 2007 from medical bills. I won't do it again. I will not fight cancer if my time comes.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: peskyhumans

A moral society?

Totalitarianism would work in a moral society.

Any political system would work if people were ethical and altruistic and desired the system.

Good people, good government participating in socialism would work great. It's what people call a utopia, it's fantasy of course.

So is honest free market capitalism. If the government were honest men and could not be bribed, and corporations and the rich were all honest and did not try to get ahead in dishonest ways.. It would be amazing and likely result in the most flourishing economy and highest invention rate the world has ever seen. But.. That's also a fantasy.

Morality, ethics, altruism... Such things aren't felt by corrupt sociopaths. The rich, and the powerful. - not all of them, but enough of them where scales tip in their favor and honest and good men are locked out.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 10:56 AM
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Easing restrictions on inter-state competition will go a long way to solving this problem. It already exists to some degree but could be much better. When insurance companies and administrators are compelled to stay competitive, if not offer a better deal, is when we will see prices coming down and quality of coverage increasing.

obama care was a disaster from the very start. The goal - getting everyone on healthcare - was admirable. The execution was a disaster. Making it mandatory is ridiculous and fining people for not being able to afford it even more so. People need to be able to choose the plan they want, not what they are told to get whether they need it or not. Choosing a primary care physician is more than just searching who is in the network and who is accepting new patients. Healthcare is so much more than simple clerical selections on a generic form.

"If you like your insurance, you can keep it. If you like your doctor, you can keep him." Good idea. Too bad it was a lie.

Providers need the freedom to provide a variety of levels of coverage at all price-points. People need the freedom to choose which plan works for them. The answer to this problem is not in healthcare, but in the basic freedom we lost with the implementation of obamacare.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

This idea has been presented a few times in this thread now, but my line of questioning is..

When interstate insurance did not exist, when insurance companies were making a ton of money.. That wasn't good enough. They wrote obamacare and it was implemented.

Why are we trusting that these same companies be honest?

Why are we trusting that any new, more honest company could make it? Without government favoritism.....

It seems the more we talk on this thread, the more the answer is to jail all insurance companies ceos, our president, senators and congressman, and start over.



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:13 AM
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Obamacare was sold as UHC and it changed over the course of it's life. This is why they said pass it to find out whats in there and all it was is taxes for us, oops, penalties, if we did not have it. It was made not a choice. Healthcare bailout was written into it. Prices have gone up 20-40% per year since inception. It also allowed you to enroll if you had a pre-condition but that does not mean it would be treated. It is all in how they word it. Fines have gotten bigger each year. People still dying in the streets and now, many of you who do not have healthcare, will have that penalty taken right from your tax return. Did you get a 1095 C form? You have to 'prove' you have insurance. This is not UHC.

The solution is HSA's like you see in Europe. It is my money. Let me put it in an account Tax Free to use and roll over if needed. This allows our cost as consumers to be regulated. If you need it you use it.

Regulations. Break up to pharma companies. Open borders for competition. Competition brings lower price and choice. Pass legislation to cap the price of pharma not make it free for some. The reason it is not put forth is the lobbyists.

Carson and Trump to me had the best ideas....



posted on Mar, 4 2016 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by: zazzafrazz



What is the right-wing resolution to healthcare, anyways?


To let them eat cake.


Having visited and toured The Palace of Versailles -- I can say unequivocally that the "eat cake" attitude inevitably fails. The whole Jenga tower collapses and the cycle begins all over again...



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