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What is the right-wing resolution to healthcare, anyways?

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posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 05:22 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3

Good questions/comments. They definitely misjudged competition because many of the young and healthy people they assumed would buy and pay for coverage (all the while having little to no claims) did not. They would rather pay the fine. So right away, the demand they expect shrunk drastically. Supply and demand have direct correlation so there went the competition.

The reason why we're seeing all of these consolidations is because loss/profit is not what they expected and they are trying to rectify this with scales of economy. It's hard sometimes when you look at an insurance company's loss/profit margin in the marketplace because they usually offer more than benefits on the individual side and those aren't usually broken down by line of coverage. With that said, all the association newsletters I receive have consistently quoted quarterly losses on the benefits side for the last 2-3 years.

BTW, I too would like to have a one payor system.




posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 09:29 AM
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a reply to: timidgal

The low information anarchists can't reason how mandatory made car insurance competitive. Of course, that is their point, mayhem and human suffering for profit.



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 09:34 AM
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originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: yesyesyes

Right.. That's what I keep wondering..

Where is the proof that prices would drop?

You can't find the proof in things that already are more free market and such.. Those markets have developed and adapted over decades to offer the competitive pricing they do. Why on earth would Healthcare providers change their prices in days, weeks, or months?


Well look at the notion that competition drives down prices. Looks at things most American's consume regularly.

You could buy a soda for $.50-$.99 - 20 years ago. Today the choice of soda like beverages has increased 10 fold,
yet the prices of the same sodas have doubled and more.

Look at gas... Gas the output of gas has increased dramatically in 20 years, and yet we have seen periods where the price of gas has quadrupled.

A crappy McDonalds combo meal was $2.99-$3.99 in 1996, today the same food costs twice as much despite the introduction of many new options.

The principles Conservatives base their beliefs upon are illusory and completely based in fantasy.


The price difference reflects inflation. Merely saying the price doubled does not take into account that salaries for most people are also higher. You also have to consider that a lot of goods we consume are also dramatically cheaper, particularly technology based goods.


I think it is safe to say that prices have kept up with inflation, while wages have not which really is the point I am trying to illustrate. "The market" has no reason to lose profit to promote wages or, keep prices stagnant to benefit wage earners.

The problem is people have a tendency to want to assign a altruistic mechanism built into the free market that will keep Americans safe and working, but the problem is the free market does not care about Americans or workers, or if the market decimates America and Americans.



Some people's wages have not kept up, while others are doing just fine. Most of that is driven by changes in the market place as to what labor is in demand. It is like saying because buggy whip makers have seen their wages fall, then everyone is not keeping up with inflation.

The reality is that many many goods are cheaper than they have ever been. Even the lower income earners live better than the upper and middle class did decades ago. Flat screen TVs, iphones, air conditioning, cars, clothes, cable TV, etc. The only goods that are appreciably more expensive today than from before are education and healthcare both of which have been massively distorted by government intervention through student loans and over bearing regulation. The poorest American is in fact in the 1% globally.



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

Let me be very clear that right wing people who are not the crazies you see on foxnews and other media are fine with a single payer system. What is bad for everyone is the ACA, which I contend is borderline capitalist slavery. We need to go all the way to single payer or leave it to the markets, but this half ass socialism/capitalism weighted heavily in favor of the insurance companies is a joke.

A single payer system is good for doctors as they can go back to practicing medicine rather than fight with insurance companies. It's good for patients because it's equal coverage.

Don't be fooled by arguements about wait times in single payer systems as that noise is funded by the people who stand to lose. If you have an emergency you are first priority. If your injury prevents you from working you are second priority. Then everyone else. I live in the middle of America -- the land of the best healthcare with no wait times. Yet despite that noise I waited over 12 weeks for a surgery for scaphoid repair.

Single payer or dump this ACA and expand Medicaid/Medicare programs for those with pre existing conditions etc.

Also what really needs some work is the pharmaceuticals industry. The relationships between PBM's and drug companies. Read the laws on "rebates" given to PBMs for buying into certain companies drugs. They resemble kickbacks to me, and our awesome congress passed the laws to make this possible.

Let's all be thankful I'm on my phone cuz I could go off on this topic for days.



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: drewlander

The problem with your plan is the same as the original . What to do with people who have pre existing conditions. They went over the line and abused it. Like why should hypertension be in that category of pay more. Then the legislators will make the income restrictions for Medicaid so low, that back to people falling through the cracks we go.
Like someone who works full time but makes min wage.
edit on 7-3-2016 by MOMof3 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 10:32 AM
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a reply to: drewlander

If you look through my post history I pretty much agree with you.

I would like it Healthcare was free market and had no ties to the government, it would be ideal in an ideal world and all. Have Medicaid pick up the slack and allow competition and less regulation and government involvement to reign free....

But, I don't think the people that have been a part of both systems are likely to change. I think if you attempted to divorce the two from each other, you'd run into a lot of trouble. Then.. The rich that are already charging us so much for care would just band together and make sure we are always paying for their luxury. I honestly don't think free market will work - not unless we fired all politicians, and all people that became rich off our current Healthcare system.

Universal health care seems to be the answer whether or not it's what I think to be ideal.



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: timidgal

The crony politicians, the Obama administration and major players in Healthcare sat down together to write this. Probably more like Obama sat down to receive a check and the huge corporations did everything else.

The monopoly situation you speak of seems to have been the goal all along. Smaller companies just couldn't keep up with all this new added legislation.

This has happened in many sectors. Businesses go to governments, government makes rules that seem to be bad for businesses but really it does benefit a small percentage. A small amount of businesses love government involvement because it keeps them at the top and prevents a truly free market.



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 02:06 PM
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You want to know the "solution"

You purchase it just like you would anything else.

You go into the doctors office of your choice. You see his basic fee posted on the wall along with a menu of other services with their price.
You get the care that you need. Then you pay the agreed upon price.
If you think the cost is to much, you visit a different doctor.

Ask yourself why you can get Lasic surgery for 299.00 per eye?
Because insurance will not cover it, so in order for Doctors to make money doing it they have to charge a fee with as little mark up as the market will bear. Some people would even be willing to go see a Pharmacist to just get medications rather than see a full Doctor. You know those folks know a lot more about the drugs than the doctors do right?

If people could shop this stuff around like everything else then the cost of healthcare would be a fraction of what it is these days. Insurance should only be for Emergency care.



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 02:25 PM
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originally posted by: Dragoon01
You want to know the "solution"

You purchase it just like you would anything else.

You go into the doctors office of your choice. You see his basic fee posted on the wall along with a menu of other services with their price.
You get the care that you need. Then you pay the agreed upon price.
If you think the cost is to much, you visit a different doctor.

Ask yourself why you can get Lasic surgery for 299.00 per eye?
Because insurance will not cover it, so in order for Doctors to make money doing it they have to charge a fee with as little mark up as the market will bear. Some people would even be willing to go see a Pharmacist to just get medications rather than see a full Doctor. You know those folks know a lot more about the drugs than the doctors do right?

If people could shop this stuff around like everything else then the cost of healthcare would be a fraction of what it is these days. Insurance should only be for Emergency care.


They can't see the solution because they are so used to "insurance paying for it."



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

So do you admit that while your suggestions may or may not be ideal, they are still unrealistic?

The people, government, insurance companies and hospitals are all used to what we currently have.

Universal Healthcare sounds an easier step than free market reliance.
edit on 7-3-2016 by deadlyhope because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 03:05 PM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

I agree with your post, but with a single very important correction.

Where you say Obamacare was a 100% capitalists dream ... maybe you should have put in the word 'crony'.

Obamacare is not true capitalism, because it allows a cartel to run the show (the insurance/pharma cartel). These are cronies. This is crony capitalism!! The cronies wrote the law for themselves, then induced their paid lackies in congress to pass it without reading it.

Don't besmirch true capitalism with Obamacare associations. Capitalist it is not!
True capitalism would allow honest price competition, transparent outcome reporting, and would require fewer expensive middle men than this beaurocratic Affordable Health Care fiasco.



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: Fowlerstoad


Obamacare is not true capitalism, because it allows a cartel to run the show (the insurance/pharma cartel). These are cronies. This is crony capitalism!! The cronies wrote the law for themselves, then induced their paid lackies in congress to pass it without reading it.

This is absolutely true.
Just Saturday, my pharmacist sighed as she was presenting our medications - "The price went up."
I said, "Again?!"
(I am on a first name basis with my two pharmacist gals at the grocery store - they know the history of our 'denials' by the insurance company because the dose was not what THEY thought was right. Special waiver paperwork, bureaucratic HELL - private insurance companies dictating the dosage - disregarding the doctor's recommendations. Asinine.)
Anyway, I digress -
K said, "I hate insurance! (sigh again) I know I shouldn't say that, but..."
Me: "They are running things! They own the government!"
K: "yep!"

So, anyway, sorry for rambling - but yes, whatever it is we as a society have right now (and my husband's employer pays our health insurance! - we aren't even enrolled in Obamacare!!) is USURY. It's a scam. It's despicable. We MUST get away from privatized lobbying and crony capitalism.

It's HORRIBLE.




edit on 3/7/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: Dragoon01

go see a Pharmacist to just get medications rather than see a full Doctor. You know those folks know a lot more about the drugs than the doctors do right?

If people could shop this stuff around like everything else then the cost of healthcare would be a fraction of what it is these days. Insurance should only be for Emergency care.

This is a brilliant post, thanks for it.
You are spot on......except for the very last sentence. Insurance should cover health maintenance as well, but perhaps only after $500 deductible. Check-ups, vax, routine blood tests, etc....I do it only once every three years or so. No biggie.



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 03:25 PM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

Hey, deadlyhope, this is a great thread.
Very good discussion. And just want to remind you that I'm a Bernie supporter....not a right-winger presenting whatever the hell else alternative they suggest.




posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 03:26 PM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Edumakated

So do you admit that while your suggestions may or may not be ideal, they are still unrealistic?

The people, government, insurance companies and hospitals are all used to what we currently have.

Universal Healthcare sounds an easier step than free market reliance.


No, I am admitting that far too many people don't understand basic economics. As such, the cannot see that their desire for low prices is thwarted by the very system that they want to expand. With that said, I do believe change is possible, but it will be painful in the short term.



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: deadlyhope


However, America has not practiced anything like true free market capitalism in a long time.

"free market price regulation" is a myth, in our current circumstances.

People will pay 100x the reasonable cost for their medication if they are always taught they cannot do anything about it. People with big money know this.

(Just re-reading the thread - this caught my eye: )
Makes me think about fast-food joints - where the "free market capitalism" is actual competition. Setting aside the too-low wages and corporate welfare, at least their product prices are competitive. Not so, healthcare services. (Things like Lasik and Cosmetic Dentistry, however, DO compete - even eyewear places compete).

So - point being, that fast food 'capitalist competition' is also fueling the healthcare industry by trading in unhealthy foods that CAUSE medical problems.......and their own employees are so underpaid that we the taxpayers are "bailing them out" by providing needed money for nourishment??????

collusion much?

*sigh*

People can't afford quality foods, so they eat 'fast food' (rather than regulated foodstamps or WIC allowances insisting on healthy choices), and get sick from it - morbidly obese, diet-soda-intoxified, grease, sugar, fat, pink slime.....and become patients! Win-win!!!!!

At least government food assistance has reasonable and healthy requirements. Why is it that people have to be destitute to get govt food assistance, and are then shamed for it - when those who don't qualify are walking time-bombs from eating cheap fast food?

It's ridiculous.
And then we have the whiners: Don't tell me what me eat! Michelle Obama's trying to starve my kid to death!

gag me.

Oh - and, just as a tangent: I saw a clip of Ted Cruz's "booger" episode and it LITERALLY made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. I had to run to the sink. Then a few minutes later, just thinking about it made me gag again! Gahhhhh! I wish I could unsee it now, but I can't. Which means the memory of that is forever now emblazened on my brain and every time I see his face I will have to fight off my gag reflex. Four years of that torture? Uh, no, thank you.


edit on 3/7/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/7/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 03:35 PM
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originally posted by: BIGPoJo
a reply to: deadlyhope

I guess you didn't know about Obamacare being the law of the land.

Good job liberals.


right....and thanks to all the sympathetic and heartfelt attitudes toward working peoples health needs, from those caring republicans, commonly called i-don't-give-a-sh*t-itus...who tirelessly worked with Obama and the democrats to craft a thoughtful and comprehensive national health package for the poor and middle class.....
edit on 7-3-2016 by jimmyx because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 08:15 PM
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originally posted by: Natenato
Step 1 - get a job

Step 2 - buy healthcare


What happens to those who end up working minimum wage jobs? Should their healthcare be less expensive? Should it be poorer quality? Perhaps they should just die? Survival of the fittest right?



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm a Bernie Sanders THE MAN fan. As in - He, as a person, does not come off as a slimy psychopath just looking to build up his family name and fortune.

His battle-cry for Americans to stand up to corrupt oligarchs, corporations, and politicians is a cry I hear quite well..

His economics are questionable in a sense, but emulating working models in other countries sure as hell beats trying to fix our own model - Or whatever people perceive it to be.

Overall, though - I'm the most for the person who I believe will help those that need the most help.

"The very least that we could say is that nobody in America goes hungry. That, I would hope, would be the least that we could say in a civilized democratic society.” - Bernie Sanders

Such quotes are not said by any other candidate in any way, so for now, I'm 100% leaning towards Sanders. It's a requirement for me that our future president advocate for the lowest classes in our society - Homeless children, and the like.
edit on 7-3-2016 by deadlyhope because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 08:36 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Haha let's beat Cruz with the real stuff, though
He has plenty of faults as a candidate that go beyond his hygiene.

It does seem to be carefully crafted - Make sure Americans are only paid enough to afford dollar menu meals and don't educate them about real health- Bread at the bottom of the pyramid when I grew up? Seriously? So many major illnesses are caused by carbohydrates - What people need in America is a nice juicy steak and some buttered broccoli, not more bread! Then going on to a cyclical argument - Well, the dollar menu exists for poor people, but it only makes the amount of money that's able to pay people a crap wage. It's very cyclical. Pay you employees more, they can afford more than just the dollar menu - But making 15 bucks an hour would translate to being able to better pay off vehicles, and houses. The cheap fast food, and walmart grocery prices are NOT an amazing thing - They are the thing that seems to be killing us.

Then, speaking of killing us - The ONE PLACE where capitalism seems to have derped on itself the worst, is in the place where we need to go because of all of this crap. Stress, terrible eating, etc etc...

It's not to say people shouldn't be responsible for their own health, livelihood, etc - It's just to say the system is completely rigged against it. The system is designed for people to be at the mercy of government, healthcare, and their employers.

That is not Life, Liberty, and Happiness ... At least not to me.







 
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