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U.S. Soldiers Flee to Canada to Avoid Service in Iraq

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posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
I wont continue because you are a mod and I dont want to get banned for deffending myself and my country against a mod. Not becuase I will state something against the TOS, but because im my experience you dont argue with mods if you want to continue posting.


My status has nothing to do with this. I haven't, nor would I, use that against someone that I disagree with. But you dissed my country and I don't take that lightly.




posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
And I am very serious about the Canadians attitude towards the US. Like it or hate it, Canada owes a great deal to the US. I’m not saying this out of American pride or conceit, I am saying this because its true. Canada's geographical location in regards to the US is a HUGE part of its security. Period.

Not anymore. Now it's scary to be anywhere near the US. You never know when a nuke just might go off here. I have no doubt it's coming. Would that change your opinion about America and it's safety? We're still expecting an attack any day. Make no mistake, America is still not secure....far from it, IMO. Canada is in more jeopardy being a neighbor, than if America didn't exist, really.


Originally posted by skippytjc
How many times has Canada or Mexico been invaded in the last 100 years? None? Mmm..I wonder why?

Hmmmmm...could it be because they're neutral? Could it be because they don't try to run the entire earth and influence world trade with strong arm tactics? Nah! That couldn't be it, could it?



[edit on 11-1-2005 by Damned]



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc

So I look north and see our Canadian neighbors. Very similar to the US in many ways, but not actually the US. Canada simply does not have the security or resources that I have here.
That's okay skippy, I am glad you would not live here, your type of unworldly mentality is what we as a country do not want, included in which is arming yourselves to the teeth and having the biggest and baddest weapons man can think to invent. well guess what skippy? The only reason you need security and deem it at the top of the important list is because those weapons have been used as a form of legalized thuggery against other nations, you reap what you sow. Canada has no enemies after her, and that is the way it will stay until we, like you, arm ourselves to the teeth and behave like a bully. Until then we have no need to live in fear.

If you think that living in Iraq is better, safer and a superior quality of life than living in canada, then may I buy you a ticket and send you over for a year to live amongst the people of say Fallujah, or even Baghdad outside of the green zone? You can report in once a week with pictures and tell us exactly how safe you feel and how good the quality of life.


As for the deserters, I still maintain, they should be sent back. When one enlists in the military, especially the American military, they should expect to be sent off to war.


Now, I don’t know the numbers, but I would be willing to bet for every American who has moved to Canada, I bet 10 Canadians moved to the USA. Can somebody verify what the numbers really are?
How much are you willing to bet? How about this, if you are incorrect, you pay your own way to Iraq and provide proof, if you are correct, I will provide as upgraded a ticket to Baghdad as is available.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
As for the deserters, I still maintain, they should be sent back. When one enlists in the military, especially the American military, they should expect to be sent off to war.

You have a point there. If you're stupid enough to sell your soul to the government for a petty wage, you should be prepared to do whatever it is you sold yourself to do. When you join, you give up all rights to being a civilian, and all rights to your own principles. That's the main reason I'd never join the military. I don't believe I could do that.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Let's take this another step, how many times has Canada been invaded ever? Twice, both times by the US. See my point?


Excuse me? Care to take another look at this statement?



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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SomewhereinBetween,


No danger of me spending any time there for sure, so dont worry about it. The best thing about my trip to Canada was the strippers. Cant say I enjoyed much else in Montreal. I mention my fathers side of my family is from Canada? Immigrated.

As far as immigration numbers are concerned, I looked into them a couple of hours ago and decided not t post them due to inconsistencies in the timing of the consensuses. But some numbers that stood out was that Canada's ENTIRE immigrations number from 1996 to present was just over 1 million. The US had 770,000 for October 2003 alone. About 11,000 from Canada that month. That’s a telling story right there. But again, the numbers from the US's site and Canada’s sites are calculated to differently for me to make them comparable.

The percentage of immigrants into the US for that time period from Canada was about 1.6%. Down .01 from the previous measurment. The American immigrants into Canada had dropped exatcly half from the previous measurment. 3% from 6%. Remember: These numbers are one US month in 2003 VS the last 8 years for Canada.

So, clearly ALOT more people immigrate from Canada to the US than the other way around. Google it if you don’t believe me.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
So, clearly ALOT more people immigrate from Canada to the US than the other way around. Google it if you don’t believe me.

That's only because it's warmer, probably. It's the same reason I might move to Florida. Not because I like the state better than this one, but because it has nicer weather. There are millions of reasons people move. Very rarely does it have to do with the benefit of America over Canada. In fact, Canadians have it better, for the most part. They're not being oppressed as much as we are.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 02:45 PM
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Common Canada, please post your true feeling s about your socialized medicine program. Common. Lets hear it, and tell the truth because I already know. I want the others to hear it.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
Canada wont admit it, but a very large part of everything you enjoy as freedom and security is owed to your American nieghbors. Some directly and some indirectly. Just sharing a border with the US gains you a basic degree of security other nations cannot claim.


Your posts are full of insults followed by backhanded goodwill, skippy. Cut to the chase and just admit you are bitter towards Canada and get it over with. You would fail miserably as a diplomat.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 02:58 PM
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No system is perfect. We pay 100% medical for people who don't even pay taxes because they're either unemployed, disabled, illegal immigrants, or deadbeats. That's almost the same thing, isn't it? 82 million+ Americans had no health insurance for 2002-2003. That number is a lot higher now, I'm sure. That means that public health services cover them. That's one in three of all non-elderly Americans. I wouldn't brag about that.

[edit on 11-1-2005 by Damned]



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 03:03 PM
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A percentage of those people pay themselves, although a small one. What I am referring to is the system itself, not the cost. I actually like the idea of a socialized medicine program. But I hear horror stories from friends and some relatives about the actual care they get sometimes.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Montana

Originally posted by intrepid
Let's take this another step, how many times has Canada been invaded ever? Twice, both times by the US. See my point?


Excuse me? Care to take another look at this statement?


Sorry, I was wrong. It's 3 times if you include the Fenian Raids. The other 2 were around the time of the Revolutionary War and during the War of 1812.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 03:31 PM
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Canada and the U.S. like each other. As most people on this board do, no matter what country they hail from.

That there are vast differences in culture between the U.S. and Canada often is dismissed. The heritage and history of both are strikingly different as are the political institutions.

I'm glad the two have differing views.

As to American deserters going to Canada- long history of this. This is nothing new.
Deserters are just voting with their feet. Most realize they have placed a huge mark on their futures but have reasoned the cost is worth the gain.

As to deserters being cowards- bunk. PROVE IT!

Breach of contract, change of mind. Most enlisted when the 'conditions of employment' were something entirely different from the present. While they have given up rights to contract dispute they simply took another avenue. The American military is immune from employment contract suits otherwise there would be thousands of them. The military knowingly lied to some of these people. To others the changes in condition of employment were so vast that the soldier couldn't tolerate it. Realizations that the Veterans Administration likewise is dismissive probably played a role for some.*

Remember the old military ads- 'we train you' These were followed by scenes of medicine, computer science, electronics, forestry, etc. Very few were 'grunt' related. Things changed. Now weapons use are part of every soldiers life being rotated to Iraq. In a war zone bullets don't care that someone really wanted to be a computer technician, bullets only care about death.

The military is better off without them then forcing them into a combat situation whereby their state of mind doesn't permit them to fully support others. Witness all the guardsmen that previously thought they would do one weekend a month, 2 weeks in the summer and get benefits and a retirement. Now what do these folks look forward to?

The new American draft will come- 2006 is my bet. Iraq will still be occupied as will Afghanistan and South Korea. Enlistments will have dropped considerably and the guard will be 40% of it's present size.

intrepid didn't Wolfe invade Canada?

    *remember the Texas (US) mother that recently was acquited of murdering her three children? Health care- the insurance ran out and the husband had a low end job and couldn't afford more. In place like Canada this type thing doesn't happen. Americans have a politicized health system. Low end deserters have to also have known this.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Sorry, I was wrong. It's 3 times if you include the Fenian Raids. The other 2 were around the time of the Revolutionary War and during the War of 1812.


At which time there was no such thing as a country named Canada. There was a colony of Great Britain and a sepratist colony of France. GB and the US were at war during during those times, so what would be your objection to military action then?

The Fenian raids were conducted by people from Ireland attacking what was at that time Great Britain. It was not an attack by the US. And there still wasn't a country called Canada at that time.

Now, please tell me when the United States has invaded Canada?



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by Montana
At which time there was no such thing as a country named Canada. There was a colony of Great Britain and a sepratist colony of France. GB and the US were at war during during those times, so what would be your objection to military action then?

The Fenian raids were conducted by people from Ireland attacking what was at that time Great Britain. It was not an attack by the US. And there still wasn't a country called Canada at that time.

Now, please tell me when the United States has invaded Canada?


If you want to be technical Canada wasn't a nation until 1982 when our constitution was ratified. It could also be argued that we are still a "dominion" of England as Quebec still hasn't ratified it. Your arguement is sound for the first incursion. However during 1812 British presense in Canada was minimal due to a little thing called the Napoleonic Wars.
The forces engaged by the Americans was predominantly Canadian. The Fenian Raids were likewise dealt with by Canadian millitia.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 03:57 PM
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Ok, so instead of fighting for oil, I mean to "free" Iraq, they go to canada? Hell, these people don't need to go to college, they smart enough as it is. They seen the news, they know Iraq doesn't want us there, the world doesn't want us there, only Bush&Co want us there for oil. No WMDs, Saddam was not a threat, no evidence of Saddams mass killings, so, besides oil, why we there?

Go USA, the country, not the government or the 50.00000000000000001% of the people who voted for it.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by JoeDoaks
intrepid didn't Wolfe invade Canada?


What Wolfe are you refering to? Was it the Wolfe that defeated Montcalm on the Plains of Abraham even though both generals were killed?



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by JoeDoaks
intrepid didn't Wolfe invade Canada?


What Wolfe are you refering to? Was it the Wolfe that defeated Montcalm on the Plains of Abraham even though both generals were killed?


That's the man.

Must have been some battle.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 04:41 PM
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[fade in soap opera dream sequence]

Captain: Welcome new firefighter trainees glad to have you aboard!
Crew: Thanks Cap we're all excited with our new jobs.
Dispatch: Engine 101 we have a report of a 30 story building with an active fire, respond.

Captain: Engine 101 will proceed to the fire on Main Street.

Crew: Hey Cap, it's hot in there bro... we're going skiing instead, see ya.


[fade out soap opera dream sequence]

Whether or not we agree with the conflict, the fact remains that legally these folks did sign up voluntarily to do a job and are now running from it, which is a problem. There's no two ways about that, whether you agree with the conflict or not.

I'm not saying they don't have a gripe. But there are legal responsibilities to consider, and you can't say "I only signed up because I thought we wouldn't have to do anything." Come on.

I agree that there's dispute about the conflict and rightfully so, but there is no dispute about legal obligations.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah

canada is so close to the usa, but so far FAR away.
by just crossing a single river, between canada and usa, you see the diffrence. low crime. low murder rate. people also live in north america but act very peacefull. why arent there crazy people with guns running around canada?
and did you know that canadian people dont lock their front doors?
(i have seen that in bowling for columbine movie and i was really amazed; canadians, tell me is it really like that?)
imagine that. without locking their front doors.


I just had to take a moment away from lynching blacks and driving around shooting people to answer this


Do you know in MOST of America people don't lock their doors either? I don't half of the time. You talk of Bowling for Columbine which is pretty funny because if you look at the states with all those problems you will see they are the "blue" states. Most of us in Mid-America don't care if our Neighbor has a gun and most of us haven't had a violent confrontation since the sixth grade.

I dont live in fear of my life and most of us dont either. Its not a problem of US being armed but of the CRIMINALS being armed and if people like MM have their way ONLY the criminals will be armed.

In my hometown I can not remember when the last Murder was. The talk of violence in the streets everywhere and machinegun battles two or three times a day is from the movies. Freddy Kruger isnt real either.



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