For In The Name of God

a reply to: ChesterJohn

this is the only words I can quote under the teachings of Paul he says this,

Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as layth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Read a little further! You're going to LOVE Romans 13!

There were plenty of Christians in Hitler's armies.

Honestly, I don't see much difference in the "special circumstances" that you claim, from St Augustine's Just war theory

a reply to: windword

Hitler's Army just like so Called St Augustine were Roman Catholics.

And if you are trying under Rom 13 to imply that obeying a government that says to kill people for the sake of killing you got the context all wrong and your placing or adding to the text which is pre-texting which is the wrong way to study the Bible and the RC has done that for years and that makes you no better than them.

Paul was talking about you living under their laws in the land, not to go and kill by their command.

Learn to study inductively. Because deductive study comes to the word with pre-conceived Idea and looks to prove that Idea as truth so as to teach it. It is known as pre-textng as stated above and that is an erred way to study because you could make the Bible say anything.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

You know....I understand....

You are stronger than me. I have had seen the other side on many occasions good and bad.... there is an afterlife and maybe you should consider researching the afterlife....it is real BUT that is not my main reason..... I really have a very personal relation with God (Father). I feel christ is with me but for some reason me and God (Father) are much more close than I am with Jesus...... so to those who believe in our Christ.....IF my feelings are much more stronger for God (Father) than I have for Jesus....... am I making a mistake?

what do you think?

Ohhh...DeathSlayer, you really know how to adress a troll the right way.

1.) What is "the other side" in your definition? The other side of what exactely?
2.) What do you consider as "afterlife"? What do you mean by "afterlife"?
3.) What does it mean that the "afterlife" is real? Does it mean it's real for you?
4.) Your personal relationship with " god, the father", how does that work? Does "he" talk to you? Through you?

And if you are making a mistake by having stronger "feelings" for "God (father)" than for Jesus Christ, is not up to me to judge, because I'm not a christian. And even IF I would be a christian, I would not tell you what to beliefe because what ever you beliefe is your choise. As long as your beliefs do not interfere with your work in a secular society, I'm as tolerant regarding your beliefs as one can be.

originally posted by: windword
Read a little further! You're going to LOVE Romans 13!

There were plenty of Christians in Hitler's armies.

Honestly, I don't see much difference in the "special circumstances" that you claim, from St Augustine's Just war theory

There were plenty of Christians in many armys, in fact it can be argued a Christian has a civil responsibility to fight for their country
Theology in the matter is very fluid, it allows for the individual to make a decision based on their own convictions.
You may judge them all you like but its an obedience of the heart, not desire to serve themselves.

What you have discussed in the op are act of crime, outright acts of disobedience towards God

Fighting against a perceived evil for freedom in service to humanity as opposed to Ghosts little list below is somewhat different.

~ a parent who had killed their own children, because 'god told me so'.
~ parents and guardians whom readily reject the offering of modern medicine in order to 'faith heal' their child, only for the child to suffer an agonizing, slow death, in the name.
~ individuals whom target a single group that they claim 'god told me to kill them'.
~ groups of people whom gang rape women because 'god allows it'
~ Individuals and/groups whom blow up medical clinics because 'it's gods will'


Simply as a Christian concept, if some being tells you to do something opposed to the written word of the New Testament, or even act out the laws in the Old Testament, they don't understand Christianity.

God hasGod has brought forth a new covenant with man, turn to Christ and be forgiven.

a reply to: Raggedyman

God has brought forth a new covenant with man, turn to Christ and be forgiven.

Under any circumstances no matter what was done? I don't think so. Some actions can't be forgiven. They can only be understood for why and what for they have been done. But to forgive an action, that action must be seen and admitted as being wrong by the one who did it. And even when that is the case, it depends on the motivation out of which a certain action was done. Not everything can and will be forgiven.

Does anybody wants to forgive the killing of Jesus Christ? And who would be the one who would have to ask for forgiveness for that?

a reply to: Willingly

"Forgive them for they know not what the are doing"

Go on have a guess

a reply to: Willingly

Forgiveness is dealt with in the Bible. So is sin. There are sins against man, sins against God, and sins against both. In the event that a sin is committed against a man, that man is the provider of forgiveness. In the event of a sin against God, or God and man, Jesus and His Father in Heaven, are the providers of forgiveness.

However, we are instructed not to judge our fellow man, by Jesus Christ Himself, that it is not our job, that we are not worthy to do it, because all have sinned, and so we are unfit to pass judgement. In short, our beliefs about a persons ability to repent mean less than nothing, because we are not fit to judge them. We can only forgive the part of their sins which pertains to us, pray for their souls, and leave it at that. If they continue to sin, we must also bear in mind that it is their souls, their eternal lives that are in jepoardy by the doing of those sins, by the failure to repent.

We must also remember that even if someone's sin threatens our lives, that yes, we must defend ourselves but also that we have an eternal life, that it, not our fleshly existence, is the important thing, protecting our souls, not our mortal lives, is paramount. That is the meaning of our faith, in essence. Considering the soul, before the body. Christ before flesh.

a reply to: Raggedyman

"Forgive them for they know not what the are doing" Go on have a guess

Not knowing a particular law does not prevent from being procecuted for violating it in secular law. Why would it not be the same in religious law? Not knowing better is not an excuse, because one better would have known.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Paul was talking about you living under their laws in the land, not to go and kill by their command.

Oh, Okay. So a Christian shouldn't join the military, a police force, own a handgun for protection or sit on a jury that might sentence someone to death.

After all, Paul WAS a Roman living under Caesarian rule.

a reply to: Ghost147

They never specified

What is my faith Ghost?

a reply to: Raggedyman

You may judge them all you like but its an obedience of the heart, not desire to serve themselves.

Please learn how to follow a conversation.

The poster that I'm replying to claims that mankind had no laws against murder until God wrote them down for Moses. Do you agree with that?

I showed where, in Genesis, Cain was punished for murder, and murder was forbidden by God's covenant with Noah. But this poster says that we can't depend on those scriputes or stories for guidance, because all real history was destroyed by the flood. Do you agree with that?

Then the poster went on to say that Christians don't have to follow the Laws of Moses, which commanded killing for social punishment and military conquest. He went on to say that killing another human being is not allowed by the New Covenant of the New Testament. Do you agree?

a reply to: TrueBrit

We must also remember that even if someone's sin threatens our lives, that yes, we must defend ourselves but also that we have an eternal life, that it, not our fleshly existence, is the important thing, protecting our souls, not our mortal lives, is paramount. That is the meaning of our faith, in essence. Considering the soul, before the body. Christ before flesh.

Since I'm not a christian, I decide who I forgive and who not. And here is who I do not forgive: The ones responsible for the holocaust, in Europe and elsewhere. And the ones who killed Jesus Christ, who ever may have been resonsible for that.

The men Jesus may have died a horrorble death at the cross, but who was it who did not prevent that from happening? If I would have a friend like Jesus Christ and he would know he will suffer a death like that, like it is said he knew he would, I would have taken him out of the danger-zone. That you can be sure of. I would not have let my best friend die like that, because I'm a dominant alpha-female and I know what to do in certain situations that require my particular kind of taking actions.

a reply to: windword

In principle with a few caveats
Maybe I generally see all your negatives so I read you as a negative

Go figure

My apologies

a reply to: TrueBrit

I am glad to find someone who understands.

I'm Agnostic, but it always drives me loco when I see these insane religious people (a la ISIS) essentially anointing themselves Judge and Executioner when rightfully those roles are reserved for God and God alone, never meant to be claimed by humans. The hypocrisy and hubris of it is mind boggling. They are superseding the judgement of GOD! Do they even realise what they are doing? It's ridiculous, absurd, stupid, idiotic, ludicrous, derisory, nonsensical, asinine, moronic, preposterous, something that should be absolutely and utterly for a member of the faith.
And yet, they still do it.

I think, that while Religion can lead to some bad things, what it does the most is draw out the crazy that already existed. So often, so very often, these people violate the own terms of what they repeatedly claim to follow.

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

Not that I disagree though

I wonder how people in the west would act if so many countries interfered in their lives

I see this Muslim reaction as a reaction to all the invasions and subdugation forced upon them

Havnt many people gone into the ME and also brought judgement and execution?

Not that I disagree with you, just see the Muslims issue as well

a reply to: windword

I didn't say any of that and by the context you know that

Why must you twist things to the enth degree?

Please don't be like the MSM and take a comment out of context and run with it.

Yes a Christian can own a gun, Peter had a sword the weapon of choice of the day.

Why couldn't they sit on a Jury I find no Bible basis for any of you twisted logic.

But God does not need us to fight his wars. He will do his own.

Should we obey God above our Country?

Yeah if it doesn't goes against his word.

You see the things you are implying i.e joining the military, police force, owning a hand gun,sitting on a jury that might send someone to their death are all personal choices for individual Christians for each must be sure in their heart what they wish to do with those issues.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Ghost147

They never specified

What is my faith Ghost?

I'm not sure, I don't recall you ever directly stating it.

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

That is exactly the sort of madness I am talking about.

But it is also telling. Christianity has been blamed for an awful lot of thoroughly vile things, perpetrated by persons proclaiming themselves to be Christian, and even in the name of Christ himself.

And yet, those things that were done allegedly in his name, were done in direct contravention of his instructions to his followers, not because of them. They were done because a human or group thereof, usurped his word for their benefit, to further their own agendas. If followed correctly, the word of Christ cannot be used to justify any act of barbarism against another human. His word stays the hand of those who would cast stones at their fellow humans, unless that word is warped by the machinations of human beings and their own, specific malfunctions.

Other religions have also been hijacked by politicians and powermongers over the years, including in this current period of history. And make no mistake, the Christian faith is being usurped just as readily now, as it has ever been, having its foundations destroyed by propaganda. As the Muslim faith has been hijacked in places by black garbed butchers, so is the Christian faith being co-opted by politicial forces, money men and others. Look at Trump, masses of Republican support in his favour, which will by extension include many fundamentalist Christians, despite the fact that other candidates might suit them better, his fury and wrath appeal to them, because their faith has been muddied by forces not of God.

It has ever been thus. Those of us who have faith, true faith, cannot be blinded by mere mortals. But we are lucky, not special, for we are a few, who have been fortunate enough to see the clockwork of these things, and know that gears are turning beneath us which seek to erect a baffle between us and the truth, and have steeled ourselves against that baffle. Many of the faithful will have been blindsided, others having been taught the faith by liars and false prophets, false priests, husks with knowledge of the Bible and the spite to wield it in sin.

Those of us who know better are not better ourselves, just better informed, and that is a difficult situation for all of us. We have to love our fellow humans, including those who are caught in the lie, perhaps love them most of all, and we must love them by expressing patience, determination, a stalwart inability to be forced from the path laid out for us, and to bring our fellow human beings back to it, wherever that possibility presents itself.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Why couldn't they sit on a Jury I find no Bible basis for any of you twisted logic.

I am not the one making the assertion that mankind didn't have laws regarding murder until God wrote them down for Moses. I'm not the one claiming that Moses Laws don't apply to Christians.

a reply to: windword

again you are not being forthcoming you know exactly what my meaning was.

The Law of Moses does not apply to us, but there are laws that do such as the one God gave Noah. The Noahic Covenant is still in play today and is applicable to Gentiles. So that post flood laws recorded in Genesis agrees with the Mosaic law no problem there.

And here are what laws under the teaching that Paul gave us.

Ro 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Now what Paul taught Christians agree with a PART of the Mosaic law but not all of it. For example no where does he promotes that Christians keep the Sabbath day. And none of the ceremonial laws apply to Christians, even if the RC tries to copy the ceremonies of the Temple and their sacrificing Jesus on the cross every hour of every day. They just substituted the Sacrifices the God instructed Israel for Jesus Christ. That is why in their elaborate churches and cathedrals Jesus is always on the cross.

Again it is about studying in context and by comparing scripture (spiritual things) with scripture (spiritual things) as the Holy Ghost teaches by example in 1Cor 2:13