ATS Guide to proving your point without sufficient evidence

Jake..... Clearly, this is one of those moments I have thought when would be the right time to say again.... Okay, now! I have reasons to want to see up the Bulls A$$, to verify the Meat...
It appears your a very smart person, to some extent, until you take the position that no others are right, but you! I hope you express your insight in a different matter. This would give me a desire to read more of what you have to share. Not to be thought of as fool(s), just those that are really looking for answers, some of it has come from you, (insight) some from others, Do you have a better suggestion? Right now, you have the floor until this thread is closed. (Just my opinion of course if it will be)
Relax, Write slow, I can't read fast.. okay Man?

[edit on 11-1-2005 by jessemole]

Originally posted by jessemole
Jake..... Clearly, this is one of those moments I have thought when would be the right time to say again.... Okay, now! I have reasons to want to see up the Bulls A$$, to verify the Meat...
It appears your a very smart person, to some extent, until you take the position that no others are right, but you! I hope you express your insight in a different matter. This would give me a desire to read more of what you have to share. Not to be thought of as fool(s), just those that are really looking for answers, some of it has come from you, (insight) some from others, Do you have a better suggestion? Right now, you have the floor until this thread is closed. (Just my opinion of course if it will be)
Relax, Write slow, I can't read fast.. okay Man?

[edit on 11-1-2005 by jessemole]

Wait...what?

(When someone writes something that you've reread 2 or 3 times and it just doesn't make sense (sorry, jesse, but the ear infection part is true, I have a high fever and am as dumb as a brick right now...Simple words and ideas work best on me right now (This brings me to another point...When someone complements your inteligence, respond back that you're high, tripping, or have a high fever. This way, they will never know how smart you really could be, even if you're showing your A game with several pluses following it), let them know. If you suspect you're just missing the point, U2U the person. If you suspect they really screwed up their thought train and their post makes no sense, post it on the thread. It makes them look foolish, and you look like you're trying to work through all this information and respond to everyone in time.

EDIT:
Gaz, I already replied to you (one of the instances a U2U is more appropriate. Because Gaz and I have a head butting relationship (we disagree on most things, but I like him none the less), I figured my response would be sent via U2U. I'll post the U2U below so you can understand how to go about this. (I didn't realize I was going to do this until I realized I'd have to respond to the other posters. To novices: NEVER DO THIS! You need to have all your bases covered before embarking on the improv insult/debate. You need experience to pull this one off successfully!)

Wassa matter, Gaz? Worried I may be creating a new super breed of disinformationialists? Hehe, I gotta say I'm really enjoying that thread. FINALLY I get to say all the things I wanted to say but never would for fear of giving jungle a bad name. I think we should be able to have two accounts at ATS. The good account and the asshole account. The asshole account still has to abide by the rules, but we can say what's really on our mind without upsetting people who will, at an emotionally level, dismiss your information because they don't like you.

(Don't worry, Gaz, I won't post what you say, nor what I say in response, just that original U2U which reads very similarly to something I would post)

I do have to say, I like the asshole account idea...

LadyV: Just because ATs picks apart my case and shows it to be false doesn't mean the weak willed will believe you. How many times have I popped onto ATS and seen "Moon landing faked!" as a subject? No, people believe what they want to believe. Ask Zedd. If you give them what they want or fear to believe, no amount of facts or reasoning will convince them otherwise. This is, of course, only true in 98% of the population. 2% can think for themselves. Now if I could just get out of that 98% and get this government official out of my ear...

Jazz: Gonna do some reading before replying. Research is VERY important. Even if you just read the first sentances of a few paragraphs and the first paragraph of a story someone posted. By doing so, you will appear to be well read on a subject, and your opinion respected more. If you can skim and pick out something obsecure, make a private joke to the poster about that obsecurity. It will endear you to them and they will think you care about what they have to say. To do otherwise would really upset Nancy

instar: Shut the # up. Actually, the real reason I'm not a politician is that I do that Theresa HEinz-Kerry thing of not thinking before I speak. I can really upset people like that, you idiot dog humper!

sardion2000, I agree with half your post. You decide which half. (make 'em think. This way, they're less focused on the problem and will come up with a less convincing arguement.)

Off_The_Street, I make no claims to be an expert. I am but a humble poster here at ATS. I don't have moderator under my name, I don't even have scholar. (false humility can change some people into Mr. Mad, and others just eat it up and they think you're the bomb. Then there's the majority, who really don't care and think it's trite and sad that you would resort to this kind of thing. But it doesn't leave a lasting impression with those people, only the extremes. So go for it.) I simply state things as I see them. This is how The sky is red. Of that there is no doubt. I'm no smarter than any other ATS memeber, and my facility with the language is lacking. I thank you for your complements, but I don't value misdirection the way you seem to (one of these complementing slams can be rather tricky. If you can, turn it around. Otherwise, just ignore it. I was going to ignore it until I discovered Off was the last person I had to comment to.) . I prefer to be bluntly honest. Sorry! (fell apart there, but I got distracted again. Normally when this happens, delete your post and start over again. If it's weak in it's conclusion, it's going to be weak. Delete it. The second time you write it it will sound better, anyway, unless you're really drunk and can't remember what it was you said. Then you're hosed.)

[edit on 1-11-2005 by junglejake]

EDIT:
Gaz, I already replied to you (one of the instances a U2U is more appropriate. Because Gaz and I have a head butting relationship (we disagree on most things, but I like him none the less), I figured my response would be sent via U2U. I'll post the U2U below so you can understand how to go about this. (I didn't realize I was going to do this until I realized I'd have to respond to the other posters. To novices: NEVER DO THIS! You need to have all your bases covered before embarking on the improv insult/debate. You need experience to pull this one off successfully!)

To be honest, some of my favorite posters you'd never know it, as I usually vehemently disagree with them on the issues, hehe... One of my favorites (I suck at remembering usernames, but he had Jack Nicholson from the shining as his avatar) was a pro-Palestinian, and we would often get in matches about THAT subject, hehe...and likely seem like enemies, but via U2U, we respected each other's beliefs on it. Just had to put the staff disclaimer that we may not exactly agree with your suggestions about going about a debate on ATS, hehe...

Originally posted by Gazrok
To be honest, some of my favorite posters you'd never know it, as I usually vehemently disagree with them on the issues, hehe... One of my favorites (I suck at remembering usernames, but he had Jack Nicholson from the shining as his avatar) was a pro-Palestinian, and we would often get in matches about THAT subject, hehe...and likely seem like enemies, but via U2U, we respected each other's beliefs on it. Just had to put the staff disclaimer that we may not exactly agree with your suggestions about going about a debate on ATS, hehe...

(Ok, see, now people this is where you get into Advanced ATS posting. Gaz did a fantastic job here. He said, in a round about way, that he still disagrees with me about the sky being red. However, the main content of his post was that he likes people who disagree with him. Bam, with one fell swoop Gaz just took away the power of the blatant covert insult. Now you're stuck with things like calling him Gaz instead of Gazrox or whatever his name is (classic line, I took it from Friends). You'll note, too, that he never came out and said I was one of those posters. He left that a mystery. I could take this, make the assumption, and continue with my arguement. However, being slightly weathered here, I know Gaz is on often and probably wouldn't let me get away with that. So I'm stuck. This is one of those that you wish you had a Mr. Mad in reserve to address. Then you could get your post after his, but not have to address his comments. These are always such a pain in the butt to deal with. What's worse, however, is when you get a message like that via U2U. People see attitudes change, but they have no idea as to why. That, however, is a lesson for the advanced class.)

Oh sure, mention everyone except me... like I don't exist.


bugger off.

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
Oh sure, mention everyone except me... like I don't exist.


bugger off.

(This is just a sullen whine by someone who's not long for ATS. He'll be gone soon, and you can completely ignore this type of post. Do exactly that which is requested: bugger off. )

However, being slightly weathered here, I know Gaz is on often and probably wouldn't let me get away with that.

Damn straight, hehe...

Oh sure, mention everyone except me... like I don't exist.

Actually, in this junglejake has revealed yet another tactic, that of making it seem like he's addressing everyone's concerns by a personal rebuttal to each, while ignoring some who disagree. This then gives the overall impression that the number of those disagreeing with him is lessening, as well as showing he's such a nice guy to respond to others' points. Thought you were saving those advanced lessons?

Originally posted by junglejake

Jazz: Gonna do some reading before replying. Research is VERY important. Even if you just read the first sentances of a few paragraphs and the first paragraph of a story someone posted. By doing so, you will appear to be well read on a subject, and your opinion respected more. If you can skim and pick out something obsecure, make a private joke to the poster about that obsecurity. It will endear you to them and they will think you care about what they have to say. To do otherwise would really upset Nancy

[edit on 1-11-2005 by junglejake]

Dear junglejake -I'm very upset about your response!
Because I'm trying to be reasonable here, I will try to find motives behind it
1. In-spite of your knowledge about proper arguing you are not really qualified with reading between the lines - or maybe ( than it is my mistake, so please take my apology) you didn't want us to think about red sky and the whole conspiracy about that? In this case your thread is nothing more than game with the words and should be moved to BTS
2. You are afraid of being exposed as zetatalk messenger, so you quickly dismiss any resemblance by not getting close to the subject
with disappointed regards,
jazz



[edit on 11-1-2005 by jazzgul]

[edit on 11-1-2005 by jazzgul]

Here's why the sky looks blue. White light, like sunlight, is composed of all the colors of the rainbow. The molecules in Earth's atmosphere are just the right size to send sunlight flying in all directions as the light strikes the air. This is called "scattering," and it so happens that the blue in sunlight is scattered more strongly than the red.

Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
Oh sure, mention everyone except me... like I don't exist.


bugger off.

(This is just a sullen whine by someone who's not long for ATS. He'll be gone soon, and you can completely ignore this type of post. Do exactly that which is requested: bugger off.

)

That's about what I expected, now that I've shown up your lack of knowledge you run and hide. I doubt if you could find a jungle if there was a vine growing out your ...

Great thread JJ

mythatsabigprobe (how many times have I heard that?)

Chill guy I think you are the only one not in on the joke.

(And now you're starting to see where you want a thread to go. When other people are busy defending you, you can start coming up with your new ideas. This is when your thread really takes off and you know you probably have a conspiracy hit like Time Cube (do a search, it was my first thread, well over a year ago). It gets even better when you have moderators (in this case Amuk) complementing you on your thread while others defend your outlandish statements. More as responses warrent. I'll also start to cross-link to other threads where these tactics are being effectivly used or where I'm attempting to use them (make it appear as though you're a novice at these. That way, people won't delve too deeply into analyzing your posts). Rock, rock on.)

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
That's about what I expected, now that I've shown up your lack of knowledge you run and hide. I doubt if you could find a jungle if there was a vine growing out your ...

(There are times where you can't back down or ignore. We'll pretend this is one of those times. Typically, these come when someone questions your core values or something. Then you have to address them. I find it works best to present them with a question. This way, they spend more time talking. I've become aware that I come off as a nice guy to people who just meet me. Most people do not. The more you can keep them talking, the less people will like them. Especially Mr. Upset (Mr. Mad before he starts swearing). The more Mr. Upset talks, the more spiteful and juvinile he'll sound, and the more weight your arguement will have.

Ok, stepping back for a second, this stuff is sick! This is all fairly legit advise that actually works...And it's just kind of dawning on me now what the implications of this are...Facts don't matter. All that matters is how you present your facts. It goes back to the old addage: People would rather someone who has bad ideas expressed very well instead of someone who has great ideas expressed very poorly. I hope anyone who has gone through this thread and sees how these tips are used constantly and effectivly here on ATS will step back a minute and reassess George Bush. The dude speaks about as well as my cat does (I don't have a cat), but try listening to the content rather than the way he says it. )

Amuk, I think were related... thanks for pointing that out.... Sorry for the short post, its tough to give any more creed to this thread... Sorry, off to a different topic... Its in your court... O yes a few of these................................................................................................................................................. ................................................nuff said.


[edit on 11-1-2005 by jessemole]

Originally posted by Amuk
Chill guy I think you are the only one not in on the joke.

Oh please... Could you really take someone called "mythatsabigprobe" seriously?

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
Oh please... Could you really take someone called "mythatsabigprobe" seriously?

Your avatar gave us reason to believe it may be true

Hope you stick around, probe, you'll be fun in the future, too!


EDIT: On topic: After your thread has taken off and become a wonder, it will eventually peter out. Take it out for a spin every couple of months, see if anyone has anything to say about it. For example, Time Cube is about to hit the top of the recent for the first time in months.

[edit on 1-11-2005 by junglejake]

Your avatar gave us reason to believe it may be true

Hope you stick around, probe, you'll be fun in the future, too!

What future? Don't you read the threads here? The Pope's an alien imposter and the airforce are definitely hiding alien spacecraft...





And what's that about my avatar???


[edit on 11-1-2005 by mythatsabigprobe]

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe

What future? Don't you read the threads here? The Pope's an alien imposter and the airforce are definitely hiding alien spacecraft...

Oh boy, where to begin. First, the pope is not an alien imposter. It's obvious he's the spawn of Satan sent here to earth to monitor us until we develop the technology to get to Mars so he can spread Sin among the people of Mars as well. (Space is a spiritual vaccum, too). Also, the airforce isn't hiding alien aircraft...

My God, what in the heck is the point of this thread? Why would you want to develop some kind of crazy thread like this to encourage people to not research, and try to circumvent what we know to be the best way of posting here- that is, research, provide links, and try to argue from an informed perspective? I really don't get the point of this thread at all, other than to possibly insult certain posters, in what I call ATS encryption fashion. Lord the mind games going on around here. THAT is about the only thing I do not like about ATS, is people who instead of just coming right out and saying it, would rather come up with some clever, "I'm way above you all" way of making a point that only the most astute ATS members will catch. I'm not impressed with this thread, or with those people who do that, almost as if to make them part of some think tank elite. WHY? WHAT FOR? It is those people I have the least respect for around here, because of the very nature of what they are doing, separating themselves from those of us who just want to be here to learn more, with well researched posts. It's not about mind games, although these people seem to revel in playing them, almost like a chess game or something. Sad. And who are they? You know exactly who you are, and I beg of you to stop it.

I am sure that all of us at one point or another may be guilty of providing less than informed opinions on stuff, but it seems to me the whole point of being here is to learn and develop better insight from well researched threads and posts covering a whole host of topics. I realize that is difficult in some cases with more controversial topics like Aliens and the Paranormal, but at least one can still provide links to semi-credible sources. If I am missing the boat here, please let me know, but jeez. Enough is enough.

junglejake says:

"It goes back to the old addage[sic]: People would rather someone who has bad ideas expressed very well instead of someone who has great ideas expressed very poorly."

Exactly; and it is this that accounts for my incredible popularity and (dare I say it?) "adorability" on this forum. The combination of excellent ideas supplemented by brilliant expository prose (coupled, of course, with the perception of extreme humility and modesty) has made me, simply the best (and best-loved) poster on ATS.

But I have high hopes for you as well.