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originally posted by: Sahabi
a reply to: Gezus
I agree. Please allow me to share my research:
Isaiah 14 is a controversial chapter. Some say it is an allusion to Satan and/or the Devil, while others say that it refers to a King of Babylon.
I propose that the chapter in question is indeed addressed to the King of Babylon (verse 4), but actually references a page out of the Canaanite religion (verses 12-14). A clearer picture is revealed by referring to the original Hebrew language of the verse, along with Canaanite mythology.
4. That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! The golden city ceased!
12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."
Isaiah 14 (King James Version)
[Verse 12] The figure in question literally "fell from Heaven": [naphalta (נָפַ֥לְתָּ) (fell)] [mis'sa mayim (מִשָּׁמַ֖יִם) (from Heaven)]. This rules out any human being.
[Verse 12] "Lucifer, son of the morning", is an outdated and inaccurate translation, originating with St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate Bible, and perpetuated by the King James Version of the Bible, Dante Alighieri's "Divine Comedy", and John Milton's "Paradise Lost".
In place of "Lucifer", the original Hebrew actually states: "Helel (הֵילֵ֣ל) Ben (בֶּן־) Shahar (שָׁ֑חַר)", which literally means;
"Helel, the son of Shahar".
The word, "Helel" (הֵילֵ֣ל), is rather enigmatic. According to several Concordances, Helel is defined as: "a shining one" and "star of the morning".
According to the ancient Ugaritic texts of Ras Shamra, Helel was indeed a Canaanite deity who sought to usurp the authority of El.
Shahar is a Canaanite deity representative of the "Morning Star," which is Venus on the eastern horizon before sunrise. This deity is synonymous with the Greek deity Phosphorus.
Now we have, "Helel son of Shahar/Phosphorus/Morning Star".
As we have the "Morning Star," we also have the "Evening Star." Venus, as the evening star, sits on the western horizon after sunset. The evening star was known in the Levant as the deity Shalim, and to the Greeks as the deity Hesperus.
The Greeks treated the morning star as one deity, and the evening star as a separate deity,... although they knew that both were the planet Venus. In tale and story, Venus was separated into Phosphorus and Hesperus, but always understood, intellectually, to both be Venus. The same can be said about the Levantines regarding Shahar and Shalim. Both cultures knew the morning and evening stars to be Venus.
So now we can deduce, "Helel son of Venus."
According to Greek mythology, Venus was a prominent goddess. And through archetype and correlation, we parallel the goddess Venus to the goddesses Inanna, Ishtar, Athirat, and Asherah.
Now we deduce, "Helel son of Asherah/Athirat."
Asherah/Athirat is the consort of El.
We can now derive: "Helel, son of Asherah/Athirat and El"
Isaiah is also referring to Baal Hadad. This can be concluded by reading the context of the verse and correlating it with the Canaanite religion.
How you have fallen from heaven, Helel Ben Shahar! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
You said in your heart, “I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of El (אֵ֖ל [God]); I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like El Elyon (לְעֶלְיֽוֹן׃ [Most High]).”
- Isaiah 14:12-14
The two following phrases should be self-evident:
"I will raise my throne above the stars of El."
"I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like El Elyon."
Examining Isaiah 14:12-14,... we must think about which son of Asherah/Athirat has his throne on Mount Zephon,... and who wants to usurp both El and Elyon.
Now, let us examine "Mount Zaphon."
Mount Zephon is known today as Mount Aqraa. It is upon this mountain that Baal Hadad, son of El and Athirat/Asherah, established his throne and sanctuary. From this event of the Baal Cycle, we get the name/title: Baal-Zephon.
Baal Hadad was indeed a son of El and Venus/Shahar/Asherah, who sought to usurp El's authority, succeed Elyon, and establish a throne on Mount Zephon. Isaiah 14:12-14 illustrates this perfectly.
originally posted by: Mankind
a reply to: jjkenobi
Are you saying we should believe in Lucifer despite knowing he isn't real and that it's a misunderstanding based off translation goofs?
Because you think he exists despite proof that he never did, I should regardless believe in him?
Why would I force myself to believe something that is in error? How is that going to help anybody?
I don't perpetuate myths.
Let's look at the Hebrew: Halal ben Shachar is Hebrew for day star, son of Dawn.
originally posted by: Seede
Latest Hebrew to English –Isaiah 14:12-15
Eth Cepher – YESHA’ YAHU – Isaiah Isa 14:12-15
(12) How art you fallen from heaven, O Heylel, son of the howling morning! How are you cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! (13) For you have said in your heart, I will be like EL ELYON. (15) Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the sides of the pit.
Ha-Satan is the most kosher representative of God you could imagine.
The word satan means "challenger", "difficulty", or "distraction" (note that it is not a proper name). With the leading ha- to make haSatan, it refers to /the/ challenger. This describes Satan as the angel who is the embodiment of man's challenges. HaSatan works for G-d. His job is to make choosing good over evil enough of a challenge so that it can be a meaningful choice. In other words, haSatan is an angel whose mission it is to add difficulty, challenges, and growth experiences to life. Contrast this to Christianity, which sees Satan as God's opponent. In Jewish thought, the idea that there exists anything capable of setting itself up as God's opponent would be considered overly polytheistic—you are setting up the devil to be a god or demigod.
until NT arrived where he was demonised
originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
Could you please extrapolate a wee bit on that particular translation? One of which I was unaware. Do you have an Amazon link or similar? ISBN?
red flag "Inside" -- listen to the video if desired --
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
I was referring more to the revolving door 'banned' nature of it.
Personally I don't believe in Satan or the stories about him. It's ridiculous.