To stay or not to stay? That is the billion euro question. Leave the EU or stay

a reply to: chelsealad

Ok I'm telling you now' 85% of people want to leave' we all know they are crooks and elitests, on the 24th june you will wonder why the British people voted to stay in' they have to rig the vote to make it look like we decided to stay in and the people chose, because they signed our right away to leave in Nov 2014. If you think you are getting out then you are being misled, its a circus.

Do some research and you will be shocked and you will realise that Britain is no different to France in the 2nd world war, we have been taken over, they make our laws make us pay them any amount each year and they fine us for not following orders. Britain is ruled by a European dictatorship' would hitler leave france if the people wanted him to' no so don't expect them to hand control back to the British people as it will never happen.

Just wait till June 24th and you will see what I mean, everyone you meet would have voted out but we are still in.

a reply to: pavmas

I will say one thing' watch this vote and you will wonder how we voted to stay in as 95% of UK is poor and the only ones that want to stay in are Business and those making money out of it, they only have one vote like me and you but they get 99% of the air time.

Not one person I know or have talked to want to stay in this Union, we are seeing longer waiting lists for schools, housing, hospitals and our roads are at gridlock and all we seem to be bringing is is the crooks and low lifes from every country in Europe, yet they will convince us that the British people voted to remain in.


I expect this to happen prior to the vote' all police leave cancelled, riot police on standby' they will say that its incase of terrorist attacks at polling stations or something. But the real reason is in case the British people realise they have been stitched up and take to the streets' they will say things like thew EDL plan on rioting etc or some rubbish to have riot police on the streets the time this vote result is announced. Britaiin is a Banana republic with no democracy.

a reply to: pavmas

I have to say I think the same, regardless what the polls come back with I just cannot see the UK actually leaving, how it will be spun is anyones guess?. Remember the alleged vote rigging at the Scottish polls?..

If it was to happen and we did leave surely it would open the flood gates for other nations to leave also, granted the UK is in a slightly different situation to some??, esp if the UK gets the deals that it is requesting.

On a personal note I live in a area that has been adversely affected with the mass influx of migrants and illegal immigrants but that is because I live in London, would Mr and Ms Jones who live in a suburb really have any idea how bad the situation is?.. They probably just think if we leave that going on the yearly holiday to Spain will be more of a headache and vote to stay in. That along with a high number of migrants that can legally vote I am not so sure that leaving will be all that easy, that is if they are bothered to vote mind you??..

I expect the scare tactics to start ramping up in the coming weeks with how we will all be doomed if we leave and how our jobs will be at threat due to a lack of this and that but hey the British people got what we asked for and we will be going to the polls, the sad thing is a majority of people actually thinks that they have a say... We dont......


RA

There is already an ongoing thread on the VOTE forum. The OP who created the thread has asked that as many as possible join the discussion there. He has set up a statistical analysis when new people post on thread showing how many want to remain and how many want to leave. Leave are winning at moment. There is ongoing debate as news comes in and the more who join the thread the more interesting it will be. Can I ask anyone who hasnt posted on that thread to contribute there so he can add your leave or remain vote to stats

There is ongoing thread undwr VOTE forum and the original OP is doing a great job of showing stat analysis as new people say how they will vote. Leave is in the lead at the moment. Spread the word if you can so that more people join this thread a reply to: Phatdamage

a reply to: anxiouswens

Can you please link to the thread.

I want Britain out of the clutches of the EU elites. I want the British, as one nation, to wake up and come to recognise the part they may unwittingly play in the first and final surrender of their country. It won't have taken the firing of a single bullet, but the mere stroke of a pen, or the deftest touch upon a screen to bring about the greatest historical suicide any one country could ever commit.

I know I am not the only one who perceives this, I am sure many of you do, both 'inners' and 'outers', but only the latter will both feel and understand the enormity of the sadness, and the scale of the tragedy. This contemporary crop of British people, alive today, could be likened to amnesiacs, only what they can't remember is something they have willingly and wilfully forgotten, because to remember that which they have forgotten is brought to mind with a consequence, one whose very shadow they flee.

I know, that in many British minds, Britain has become a book to burn. In many British minds, particularly those of the 'inners', Britain has already been lobotomised. I was born into a country, but will probably live long enough to die in a wasteland that was sold off to the EU and all the corruption and pseudo-democracy it stands for.

For me, and maybe others, death (coming naturally) will be a blessing? I no longer live amongst compatriots, I live amongst strangers.

a reply to: chelsealad

There are 3 months before the vote and the pro's and con's will be repeated and disputed ad infinitum until that sunny day in June when we seal our fate one way or another.
This will be the most important vote in our lifetime and deserves careful consideration , I'm for leaving the EU but that may not be the way I vote on the 23rd , much needs to be considered before taking the leap.

This is not something we should do just because we don't like Johnny Foreigner.

originally posted by: chelsealad
a reply to: anxiouswens

Can you please link to the thread.

Here you go......

www.abovetopsecret.com...

To leave, or to stay, a very difficult question.

There is a lot of things that the government hasn't told you, and you'll have had to stumble on or dig out for yourself. Some things where its only told partial truths, etc.

Firstly, consider what would happen if we left the EU.

1. There would be no tax-free trading with the EU any more. The price of goods, and power will rise, and probably astronomically. - People keep denying this and point to Norway and their tax free trading status even though they aren't in the EU as an example. Therein is a critical difference though. Norway has vast oil reserves, that the EU want. They are trying to attract them into joining the EU. If we leave, the EU will undoubtedly want to punish us for doing so. I doubt very much we would get tax free trading agreements with the EU if we left.
   
   
2. Travel would become restricted. - Currently we can travel around the EU, even settle in other EU countries without a visa or immigration process. All we need is a passport, and we only need that because we are not Schengen signatory. If we left the EU, its highly likely that we would be required to obtain travel visas for each EU country we wanted to visit. As I said above, they will be wanting to punish us. Even going to the Republic of Ireland, would probably require a visa.
   
   
3. A significant number of EU nationals have settled in other EU countries, without formal immigration to that country. It's not only possible but entirely probable that those people will be rounded up and ejected, and sent back to the UK.
   
   
4. Rolling blackouts would become a thing - Currently we cannot produce sufficient electrical power of our own, due to the closure of PCFB power stations (pulverised coal fired boiler). We are presently largely dependant on purchasing power from France to make up our shortfall. If we left, I can foresee the unit price of power purchased from the EU, rising to astronomical levels, resulting in astronomical power bills and/or rolling blackouts. Contrary to popular belief, the EU is NOT behind this (one of those mistruths perpetuated by our own media I mentioned at the start). Our own governments short sightedness is where the blame lies.
   
   
5. Banking Crisis - The UK owes the EU a substantial debt, and that debt is increasing. If we leave, its highly likely that the ECB would call the debt due, and demand payment in full. This is why credit rating agencies are slashing our credit rating. First from AAAA, to AAA, and now to AA1. We would not be able to pay the debt in full. Our economy may even collapse. Wondered why all the A-List stars living here are selling up, and others are building bunkers disguised as "superbasements"?
   

Okay those are what I consider would be the immediate effects of us leaving the EU. Lets point out some of the mistruths.

1. The EU offered us no help during the recent flooding crisis. - Untrue. They offered us the services of Dutch hydrological engineers, to restructure and redesign our flood defences. This was rejected by Parliament. The Dutch are the best flood defence experts in the world. They have, kept an entire SEA out of their country for centuries. Yes, we'd have had to pay for the work done, but their consultancy was offered for free.
   
   
2. The EU forced us to close our power stations - No, they forced us to close, or upgrade them to less polluting types. The government opted to close and build entire new ones. The EU even extended the deadline for when the polluting types had to shut down by, to give us time to get new ones built. Each time they extended the deadline, the construction of new ones was delayed. Until they stopped extending the deadline, leaving us in the position we're in now. Yes Germany still has PCFB types, but they substantially modified them, to be a lot cleaner. They are even building new ones, with the modifications included. We could do the same. They just want them to burn cleaner.
   
   
3. We pay vast sums of money daily for our membership - True, and we also get vast benefits back for that. Just not immediately tangible benefits. Benefits like tax free trading, which is invaluable for small companies trading with Europe.
   
   
4. The EU is dependant on the UK due to our banking, stock exchanges and financial centre in London City. True, for now, but they could very quickly establish their own stock exchange and financial centre anywhere they choose. There's nothing special about London, except convenience, because the infrastructure is already there.
   
   
5. They force silly laws on us, like having to sit a training course to use a ladder. Kind-of, but they force the silly laws on ALL countries, who then promptly laugh and ignore them. We are the only ones that adhere to them. Also, that ladder law? If you read the actual directive, it simply states that you must be shown the correct use of a ladder, by a suitably qualified person. It doesn't mention anything about training. Even a janitor could show you the correct use. We chose to interpret it as we did.
   
   
   Now for my personal concerns about leaving the EU.
   
   The loss of the Human Rights directive. The media is spinning the cases of criminals who abuse the HRD for their own ends, but the directive has actually protected us from our own government more than you'd believe. Those are swept under the carpet, as they don't fit the agenda.
   
   The UK does not have any Freedom of Speech, in statute law. Our freedom of speech comes from the EU human rights directive. What the UK has in statute law, is a rather complicated bit of law, known as "The Negative Right to the Freedom of Creation and Expression", and while it sounds like its a kind of freedom of speech law, its not. The "Negative Right" part of that means, the government can revoke your right at any point for any reason simply by passing a law that makes what you said/did, illegal.
   
   Yes, the loss of the Human Rights directive scares me a lot, because I know my own government, and I know they will abuse it to establish totalitarianism.
   
   Overall, for that reason and that reason alone, I feel the UK should stay in the EU, if only to cock block our own governments grab for totalitarianism. You don't think they will go that far? Just read the snoopers charter they are using emergency powers to rush through parliament without informed debate.
   
   Well' I've rambled enough.
   
   
   For now.

a reply to: BMorris

I tried to answer your post item by item but something happened

which wouldn't let me complete. So briefly >>>>

Your post sounds to me that the fear mongering has got to you!!


I have been around for a long time and I can say to you that THERE

WAS LIFE BEFORE THE EU and it was GOOD. I know because I was

there and it was good.

Do not ever underestimate the spirit and tenacity of the *British*


Much information on this thread www.abovetopsecret.com...

Cameron used the conspiracy theorist slur in an interview yesterday. Comparing those who want out to the likes of David Icke with their mad conspiracy theories. The slur didn't even make any sense, but always a good fall back for the likes of Cameron. Even though I'm undecided the remain campaigns fear mongering is an insult to people's intelligence and the worst type of campaigning to run on. They should be selling the benefits not trying to scare people but as we have seen fear tactics are now the only thing governments have to push their agendas from surveillance to Europe. The power of nightmares by Adam Curtis is a must watch documentary to understand this phenomenon of modern politics. No longer capable of promising a better future, they see themselves as the protectors from the nightmares they create. F that.

a reply to: woodwardjnr


Do you find as I do that his speeches are very limp (somewhat like

a wet lettuce)

Like a learned script, with flailing hands trying to push a

point...an agenda ....UNCONVINCING?


He lacks the fervour and passion of someone who passionately

actually believes in what he is saying.

It's an interesting discussion, and you can bet yourself that those in power will do what they can to make you believe that what they suggest is the best option, regardless of wether it's the best option.

I can't get my head around the EU these days. It could really in the long run turn out to be a nice socialistic rule, but I sense more and more that we are getting more and more politicians who are easily bought by lobbyists and corporations.
That means that the EU risks being turned into a corpocracy instead of a democracy.

But here's something I can see very clearly... as it's happening litterally outside my window.

Right now we have a huge renovation project going on our blocks, and while the management of the project is Danish, all the manual labor is polish or eastern european.
Even my boss had one of our kitchens refurbished by polish workers.
Now what's wrong with that you ask? I'm sorry to say, but the open borders of the EU, has meant that there's been growing a huge competition of salery in the untrained job functions. People come here cutting the wages way down.

This creates two problems. The first problem is that it presses the salery of the other Danish workers. Suddenly they find themselves competing with someone who is willing to work overtime for more or less free and at a lower rate.
Add to that that since most Danes, wont take a pay cut, they get replaced by eastern europeans.
This turns into unemployment, and here we go....

Who benefits from this? Only those who employ people really.... the new workers aren't settling down here, they sent the money home and don't add to the turn around of goods here in the country.

This alone is so damaging to a country that I would consider leaving the EU.

But if you wont leave, then the EU has to work very much faster so the economy can be flattened out across the board.
You can't maintain a gathering of that many countries without having the EXACT same conditions for everyone in all the member countries, while at the same time keeping the corporations and banks in a very short leash.

a reply to: eletheia I would say it's because he doesn't really believe what he's saying, but I've never been a fan and I hate it when he resorts to calling people conspiracy theorists. Like he did with the MP child abuse scandal. It's just a way to close debate on an issue. He's not exactly been the best spokesperson for the remain campaign, but at least he's given the referendum, which I guess is all that counts at the moment, but I'll never warm to Dave. He's a Condescending posh boy.
I

a reply to: chelsealad

To leave the EU block would send the EU Union a clear message,

a reply to: eletheia

I miss the 70s, 90s Europe.

originally posted by: TaleDawn
a reply to: eletheia

I miss the 70s, 90s Europe.

The 90s was a great decade' definitely my favourite nostalgic period of my life

originally posted by: flice


This creates two problems. The first problem is that it presses the salery of the other Danish workers. Suddenly they find themselves competing with someone who is willing to work overtime for more or less free and at a lower rate.
Add to that that since most Danes, wont take a pay cut, they get replaced by eastern europeans.
This turns into unemployment, and here we go....

Who benefits from this? Only those who employ people really.... the new workers aren't settling down here, they sent the money home and don't add to the turn around of goods here in the country.

Along with child benefit and working tax credits for children who do

not even live in the country (applies to the UK) So it destroys the

economy and leads to unemployment of the local citizens.

This alone is so damaging to a country that I would consider leaving the EU.

But if you wont leave, then the EU has to work very much faster so the economy can be flattened out across the board.
You can't maintain a gathering of that many countries without having the EXACT same conditions for everyone in all the member countries, while at the same time keeping the corporations and banks in a very short leash.

Of the 28 members only five or six are wealthy, so if the economies

are set to being equalised that is going to bring the five or six wealthy

countries into third world economies. That is relative to communism

and not democracy.

Wages should be equalised ... but logistically that wont work.

The EU was never going to work as they were trying to mix cultures

and economies that were far too diverse.

Diversity takes centuries to occur naturally .... it cannot be forced.

From what I can see, the Brits would be thirty million pounds per day better off, just think how many schools, hospitals, flood defences, road, railroads, doctors, nurses, policemen, paramedics, that would pay for!
That30 million is what money the EU takes in tax from the UK EVERY DAY, no wonder the EU does not want the UK to leave.
The UK buys more from the EU than what the EU buys from the UK, another reason the EU does not want the UK out.