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Agnosticism, Theism, Atheism - What does it mean?

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posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 11:39 AM
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originally posted by: TerryDon79
Long reply I know, but hopefully that helps?


Alright, well if you believe that a god can possibly be known and we could possibly find evidence of one, or have it revealed to us, then you're not an agnostic, you're an atheist




posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 11:44 AM
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originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79
Long reply I know, but hopefully that helps?


Alright, well if you believe that a god can possibly be known and we could possibly find evidence of one, or have it revealed to us, then you're not an agnostic, you're an atheist


Oh. Ok then. I guess that does make sense.

Go team atheist



posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 11:46 AM
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originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79
Long reply I know, but hopefully that helps?


Alright, well if you believe that a god can possibly be known and we could possibly find evidence of one, or have it revealed to us, then you're not an agnostic, you're an atheist


Oh. Ok then. I guess that does make sense.

Go team atheist


Haha.

I'll post resources to make it make clear once I can get to a computer



posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 11:48 AM
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a reply to: TerryDon79

it was a couple of pages back.

What type of evidence are we talking about here.

Obvious that a supernatural healing would not qualify as evidence of a God.

I know of only one such event that was proved by two different X-rays on a man hip 48 hours apart.

I am trying to contact the doctor and see if he would be willing to give them to me.

The injury was cause by the man was free diving down to the depth of 30 to 50 feet holding his breath. The lack of oxygen caused his hip to disintegrate and the ball on the Femure where it goes into the hip was almost square, the socket on the pelvis was all jagged and deformed too.

He was once a young pastor I knew years earlier but went back to the ways of his past. For some reason he called me. We talked a while and I offered to pray. It was a simple prayer, no binding spirits or casting out demons or shouting or claiming it in Jesus Name or any of that stuff. Just a very simple prayer to Jesus Christ that if he wanted he could heal this man and we asked for that. I went to his doctors office to find out what was needed for him to get it replaced surgically. He showed me the x-ray. It did not look good and just the SS ball and nylon socket was going to cost $2000 not to mention the surgery, the hospital and anaesthesia as well as medications and the hospital stay.

The next morning I get a call from the doctor telling me the man was walking around his room when he arrived and the other patients and his wife and mother were all just praising God. He asked me to come back to the hospital to visit with him and that he was taking the man to get another X-ray. When I arrived he didn't even look like the man I saw the day before, he was lit-up. The other patients started begging me to heal them. I had to explain I was not a healer but Jesus was. I prayer with people but on that man got a physical healing.When I saw the two xrays side by side there was a big difference between them both and impossibility with man but obviously not with God. The Doctor was a 7th Day Adventist. I myself am a conservation Christian non denominational at best, I like home groups instead of Sunday go to meetin's.

That man today is living by faith and serving Jesus on a island off his home country. He is still poor and sometimes hungry but he is doing it. I guess the reason God healed him was to get him back. Now he will never lose him.

Anyway, what type of evidence would it take for and Atheist/agnostic to believe there is a god?

And as you said your answer would not reflect all atheists and so not all of them would change their minds even if the evidence you say would convince you were presented to them.

Chao


edit on 3-3-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 11:50 AM
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originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79
Long reply I know, but hopefully that helps?


Alright, well if you believe that a god can possibly be known and we could possibly find evidence of one, or have it revealed to us, then you're not an agnostic, you're an atheist


Oh. Ok then. I guess that does make sense.

Go team atheist


Haha.

I'll post resources to make it make clear once I can get to a computer


I just looked it up.

Agnostic says proof will never been known.

So I was wrong calling myself an agnostic.

Thanks for clearing that up (even though it really doesn't make any difference in the real world lol)



posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 11:52 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

For me the only way for me to have proof in god/divine being/whatever would be if it came down and we could use tests to prove it was as it says it is. As for what tests? I have no idea, yet.



posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 11:53 AM
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originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79
Long reply I know, but hopefully that helps?


Alright, well if you believe that a god can possibly be known and we could possibly find evidence of one, or have it revealed to us, then you're not an agnostic, you're an atheist


Oh. Ok then. I guess that does make sense.

Go team atheist


Haha.

I'll post resources to make it make clear once I can get to a computer

So I was wrong calling myself an agnostic.

Thanks for clearing that up (even though it really doesn't make any difference in the real world lol)


Indeed, no difference at all. But knowledge gained nonetheless



posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79
Long reply I know, but hopefully that helps?


Alright, well if you believe that a god can possibly be known and we could possibly find evidence of one, or have it revealed to us, then you're not an agnostic, you're an atheist


Oh. Ok then. I guess that does make sense.

Go team atheist


Haha.

I'll post resources to make it make clear once I can get to a computer

So I was wrong calling myself an agnostic.

Thanks for clearing that up (even though it really doesn't make any difference in the real world lol)


Indeed, no difference at all. But knowledge gained nonetheless


Very true.




posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 11:55 AM
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a reply to: TerryDon79

Don't you think that it made a difference in the real world as seen in the man's life I shared about above?



posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 11:58 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: TerryDon79

Don't you think that it made a difference in the real world as seen in the man's life I shared about above?





I was speaking to Ghost about me now being defined as an atheist instead of an agnostic.

It's not going to change anything I do as it's just a definition of what I am, not a defining limit of what I can do.



posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 11:59 AM
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BTW

Thank you guys very enlightening for me as well.

So far I am not convinced. But after 20 years of drug use, smoking and drinking to 20 plus years of family, all on the shoulders of Jesus because I was spoken too moments before I put a gun in my mouth.

chao



posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: TerryDon79

you answer does matter of course.

Do you not think the man's belief in a god made a difference in the real world?

The obvious and simplest answer is yes.



posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 12:06 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

No. His belief made a difference to him.

Beliefs make a difference to an individual. Even if there are 1 million people believing the same thing they are still 1 million individuals.

Your belief, Ghosts belief, my neighbours belief has no impact on my life.



posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 12:53 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: TerryDon79
I know of only one such event that was proved by two different X-rays on a man hip 48 hours apart.

I am trying to contact the doctor and see if he would be willing to give them to me.

The injury was cause by the man was free diving down to the depth of 30 to 50 feet holding his breath. The lack of oxygen caused his hip to disintegrate and the ball on the Femure where it goes into the hip was almost square, the socket on the pelvis was all jagged and deformed too.


Lack of oxygen does not cause the disintegration of bones.

Furthermore, you can't get the bends (A.K.A Deconpression sickness) from a momentary dive down to only 30-50 feet either. You might if it was 90 feet, and you stayed down there for minutes at a time, but even there it's an extreme rarity for freedivers (this comes from experience)
you can learn more here


originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: TerryDon79
Anyway, what type of evidence would it take for and Atheist/agnostic to believe there is a god?


Absolutely not.

You can pray to a bottle of water and get the same results as you do praying to any god (and we can test this).

Furthermore, there have been a number of scientific tests on prayers, even some conducted by the church, and the conclusions are always correlated with odds and mathematics, or actually have a severely negative impact (of which I can also link you to)

Thirdly, most other religions have some kind of prayer system, and many (if not most) of those religions' followers claim that their prayers have been answered under the exact same circumstances as you've claimed. So, if all that is needed to provide evidence for a god is a perceived answering of a prayer, then all religions are correct because everyone claims their prayers were answered by whichever deity they believe in and pray to. This only validates the first part of my post where we can pray to just about anything and get the same results.



originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: TerryDon79
And as you said your answer would not reflect all atheists and so not all of them would change their minds even if the evidence you say would convince you were presented to them.


That's correct, my answer wouldn't reflect that of all atheists.

And no, that is not convince at all



posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 01:02 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
So far I am not convinced. But after 20 years of drug use, smoking and drinking to 20 plus years of family, all on the shoulders of Jesus because I was spoken too moments before I put a gun in my mouth.


I don't mean to offend you or anything, but don't you think that after 20 years of drug use, smoking, and drinking could have had at least some effect on your brain, leading you to being susceptible to hallucinations, or being unable to accurately perceive reality (especially in the context of being in a severely emotional, suicidal state)?

This is why subjective observation isn't a valuable source of determining validity. There are too many factors involved that could influence the conclusion based on that subjective observation. It's why Objective observation is far more accurate.

For example. A colorblind individual who views a forest sees shades of gray, blacks and whites (depending on the type of colorblindness they have). Subjectively, all that exists within reality is shades of grays, blacks and whites.

However, we know color exists, not just because people whom aren't colorblind see color, but because we have objectively proven that seeing color is possible through the cones in our eyes. Cones are active at higher light levels (photopic vision), and are capable of color vision and are responsible for high spatial acuity.

Because we understand the function Cones play within our eyesight, we can determine what other animals see through their vision too.

This is hard evidence that colors exist. It's objective evidence. We can test and retest this evidence. And the information isn't subject to an individuals perception alone (which we know is a highly fragile system of it's own).

If we can objectively prove a god, or objectively provide evidence of a god, then I would be more likely to state that a god does exist, or probably exists.

edit on 3/3/16 by Ghost147 because: typo



posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 01:06 PM
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originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
So far I am not convinced. But after 20 years of drug use, smoking and drinking to 20 plus years of family, all on the shoulders of Jesus because I was spoken too moments before I put a gun in my mouth.


If we can objectively prove a god, or objectively provide evidence of a god, then I would me more likely to state that a god does exist, or probably exists.


So "Goddidit" isn't enough proof?




posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
So far I am not convinced. But after 20 years of drug use, smoking and drinking to 20 plus years of family, all on the shoulders of Jesus because I was spoken too moments before I put a gun in my mouth.


If we can objectively prove a god, or objectively provide evidence of a god, then I would me more likely to state that a god does exist, or probably exists.


So "Goddidit" isn't enough proof?



No!

But if you said the Almighty Deficatous the Savior of Man did it. I would believe you



posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
So far I am not convinced. But after 20 years of drug use, smoking and drinking to 20 plus years of family, all on the shoulders of Jesus because I was spoken too moments before I put a gun in my mouth.


If we can objectively prove a god, or objectively provide evidence of a god, then I would me more likely to state that a god does exist, or probably exists.


So "Goddidit" isn't enough proof?



No!

But if you said the Almighty Deficatous the Savior of Man did it. I would believe you


Not that crap again.




posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

not at all for I am a new creature in Christ Jesus. Even my lung health is less than my age. After 20 years you body is pretty much gotten rid of many of those old cells three times over. My Mind is sharper than when I did drugs.

well I will let you argue with the doctors who saw him at the time about the diagnoses but I do remember it is linked to something similar to the Bends. But hey they deal with it all the time and are more experienced with this in their country because there are many slave sips that reek havoc of the reefs in Intl Waters off So East Asia and Indonesia. These doctors deal with ten to thirty cases a year of this type of problem. It often affects their hips.

I was just sharing the only proof I ever saw of a person being healed by Jesus that was verifiable. And there are very few of those.




edit on 3-3-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2016 @ 02:54 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

Maybe I didn't ask it correctly.

What type of evidence would prove to you beyond any doubt that a god exists?




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