Agnosticism, Theism, Atheism - What does it mean?

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Ghost147

So basically the first and last sentences of your reply is the single tenant for Atheism?

I believe you're referring to a 'tenet' not a 'tenant', regardless, you never asked for a 'tenet', you asked for a "description".

Atheism has no tenets and a lack of belief cannot logically fit under the description of a tenet.

What is synonymous with the word Tenet:principle, belief, doctrine, precept, creed, credo, article of faith, axiom, dogma, canon; theory, thesis, premise, conviction, idea, view, opinion, position; ideology, code of belief, teaching(s).

Lack of belief cannot be defined under any of these words. It is the absence of all of them.

a reply to: Ghost147

So a lack of belief in a god is not a description of atheistic view?

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Ghost147
So a lack of belief in a god is not a description of atheistic view?

Do you even read our responses?

Here are all the posts from your first question to now:

ChesterJohn
Please define in your own words what an atheist is.

Ghost147
The only thing that connects one atheist to another is a lack of belief in any gods.

ChesterJohn
So basically the first and last sentences of your reply is the single tenant for Atheism?

Ghost147
you never asked for a 'tenet', you asked for a "description".

ChesterJohn
So a lack of belief in a god is not a description of atheistic view?

It's like I'm talking to two different people using the same account at different times.

You asked me to describe atheism, I provided you that description. Then you accused me of stating a tenet of atheism, which has nothing to do with your original question, of which I explained that to you, and now you're asking that what I originally responded with wasn't a description?

My mind is blown....

Get to your point. I'm tired of your nonsensical rambling, accusations, backtracking, amnesia. Spit it out....

Well there is a description so is must be the base for being an Atheist. Having a base discrition for being an Atheist is a tenant in and of itself.

If there is a base then you must in some way defend that base description.

Does an Atheist do anything to promote the base description to others?

anyone can choose to believe or not believe in anything that is not inherently make a person an Atheist.

So what makes an Atheist and Atheist.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Well there is a description so is must be the base for being an Atheist. Having a base discrition for being an Atheist is a tenant in and of itself.

No... look again. I already provided you with all the words that are synonymous for tenet (not 'tenant', it's spelled 'tenet'), 'description' is not synonymous with 'tenet'.

Description is synonymous with: characterization confession definition depiction detail explanation information narration narrative picture portrayal report sketch statement story summary tale version ABCs brief chronicle declaration delineation explication fingerprint make monograph portraiture presentment recital recitation record rehearsal representation rundown specification summarization vignette yarn blow by blow recountal writeup

Tenet is synonymous with: assumption credo creed doctrine dogma faith precept presumption teaching canon conception conviction impression maxim opinion persuasion position profession rule system

The two words have nothing in common.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
If there is a base then you must in some way defend that base description.

The only 'defense' is against an inaccurate description. There's nothing to defend in it from a positional perspective because it isn't a philosophy, it is a description of a person whom lacks belief in gods. There are no universal opinions or teachings or anything within atheism, no matter how hard you want your false view of it to be accurate, there are none

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Does an Atheist do anything to promote the base description to others?

NO! I've answered this exact question like 5 times already. Get over it. Your view on what atheism is is false. Accept reality already.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
anyone can choose to believe or not believe in anything that is not inherently make a person an Atheist.

When did I ever once state that "atheism is the total lack of belief in anything and everything?" Atheist is just a lack of theism, that's it. Theism is the belief in one or more Gods as the creator and ruler of the universe. A-theism, lack of-theism.

How can this concept be so amazingly difficult to comprehend?

Please tell me that your first language isn't English so that we can at least understand why you may be mistaking these concepts.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
So what makes an Atheist and Atheist.

I've answered this a good 20 times now for you and you alone.

The only thing that connects one atheist to another is a lack of belief in any gods

a reply to: Ghost147

please forgive my spelling error.

You did earlier suggest that an Atheist could choose to believe in one thing or another (you gave a list) however belief or non belief in any of those things does not make a person an Atheist. What makes a person an Atheist is their assertation that they lack faith in a god. that is the principle of Atheism.

here is the simple dictionary I used in my understanding of Tenent.

Tenent was the common spelling in the 1600s for tenet, which was defined as a belief or principle. www.yourdictionary.com...

So the principle of atheism that makes a person an Atheist is the lack of belief of a god. That is a basis of what an Atheist believes makes them and Atheist.

So why is it you lack faith in a god?

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Ghost147
What makes a person an Atheist is their assertation that they lack faith in a god. that is the principle of Atheism.

They don't 'lack faith in a god' they lack a belief that one exists. To lack religious faith in one could imply that the belief that one exists is still there. That's why I stated, multiple times: The only thing that connects one atheist to another is a lack of belief in any gods

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Ghost147
here is the simple dictionary I used in my understanding of Tenent.Tenent was the common spelling in the 1600s for tenet, which was defined as a belief or principle. www.yourdictionary.com...

And all these hundreds of years later, it still defines a belief or principle. Which is preciously why Atheist, being (in your exact words) lack-of theism, not a tenet.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Ghost147
So the principle of atheism that makes a person an Atheist is the lack of belief of a god.

That's not the principle! that's the definition!

a lack of belief is not a belief. take a look for yourself for the third time now:

Description is synonymous with: characterization confession definition depiction detail explanation information narration narrative picture portrayal report sketch statement story summary tale version ABCs brief chronicle declaration delineation explication fingerprint make monograph portraiture presentment recital recitation record rehearsal representation rundown specification summarization vignette yarn blow by blow recountal writeup

Tenet is synonymous with: assumption credo creed doctrine dogma faith precept presumption teaching canon conception conviction impression maxim opinion persuasion position profession rule system

Description is not a principle, it's not a tenet, it's not a belief, it's a description.

assumption credo creed doctrine dogma faith precept presumption teaching canon conception conviction impression maxim opinion persuasion position profession rule system
That is a basis of what an Atheist believes makes them and Atheist.

What the heck does a belief in what the description of a thing is have to do with the thing itself?

The level in which you're reaching in order to substantiate your false premise is outstanding.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Ghost147
So why is it you lack faith in a god?

I don't lack faith in god, I lack a total belief that a god exists.

It doesn't matter why I personally lack a belief. I do not represent the totality of atheists everywhere. My answer does not reflect all atheists.

However, If you're just asking out of personal curiosity. I lack a belief in any and all gods because there isn't any evidence to even suggest one exists, and all of our observations we've made so far relate to a natural origin and natural functioning for everything. There is simply no reason or need for a god to exist at all.

I will instantly change my mind on the subject if there ever is evidence to validate the existence of any gods.

However, If you're just asking out of personal curiosity. I lack a belief in any and all gods because there isn't any evidence to even suggest one exists, and all of our observations we've made so far relate to a natural origin and natural functioning for everything. There is simply no reason or need for a god to exist at all.

I was in fact curious thanks for answering.

After reading your reply above I remember Terry, who claimed to be an agnostic say the same thing

I have no belief. I don't have any proof for their being a god and I don't have any proof of their not being a god. I'll wait and see when there's either proof or I'm dead, whichever comes quicker.

The only difference is the wording.

You added a qualifying statement which interests me. do all Atheist believe this,

There is simply no reason or need for a god to exist at all.

Why do you believe there is no reason or need for a god to exist?

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
After reading your reply above I remember Terry, who claimed to be an agnostic say the same thing
The only difference is the wording.

I noticed it when he said that do. Terry;s reply actually represents Atheism, just a "soft Atheist", of which I can go into later once I know you fully understand what atheism is.

For someone to be an Agnostic they must not currently believe in any gods and also state that there is no way of knowing about a god (or in other words, there is no way of knowing how to determine if a god exists).

Theism, Atheism, and Agnosticism all have spectrum.

For instance, there are people whom are Atheists that make a definitive claim that god does not exist. That would be "hard(Positive/Strong) Atheism". And there are those that lack a belief in any gods, yet don't make a definitive claim that a god doesn't exists. That would be "soft(negative/weak) Atheism. The same level of strength in claims (or lack there of) applies to Agnosticism and Theism as well.

This, of course is only a spectrum. There are specific details, or a specific detail, in each of the terminologies that represents the totality of the term.

Theism: A Belief that a god exists
Atheism: Without a belief that a god exists
Agnosticism: Does not claim to know of a god, and that a god could not be known anyway.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
You added a qualifying statement which interests me. do all Atheist believe this, There is simply no reason or need for a god to exist at all.

No.... for the 1000000th time: The only thing that connects one atheist to another is a lack of belief in any gods

You can ask me every question in the world, anything you ever wanted, and in every question you ask "do all atheists believe this" and the answer is NO. The above text, in red, is the ONLY thing that connects every single atheist to every single other atheist.

Their reasons for being an atheist is entirely their own and in no way reflects the totality of atheism.

In fact, I even stated before I answered your question:

It doesn't matter why I personally lack a belief. I do not represent the totality of atheists everywhere. My answer does not reflect all atheists.

I'm very tired of having to answer the exact same thing over and over and over and over and over again. If you're going to ask questions, read the actual answer and read it thoroughly. It is totally unnecessary for me to answer the exact same question over 10 times and you still continue to ask the exact same question over and over again. Do you not agree?

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Why do you believe there is no reason or need for a god to exist?

Once again: I do not represent the totality of atheists everywhere. My answer does not reflect all atheists.

With that being said. It is my personal conclusion that there isn't a reason or need for any gods because of the observations we have made, which all point to a completely natural origin of everything, and a completely natural functionality of all these phenomenon. (I have already explained this before to, in fact, I answered it in the very post you're responding to)

If everything came from a natural origin, and if everything functions naturally, then what is the point of a god?

a reply to: Ghost147

I would say I'm an agnostic.

I don't refuse there being a god because I can't prove it.

I don't say there is a god because I can't prove it.

There is no evidence there is or is not a god. I'll wait and see when I die

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Ghost147

I would say I'm an agnostic.

I don't refuse there being a god because I can't prove it.

I don't say there is a god because I can't prove it.

There is no evidence there is or is not a god. I'll wait and see when I die

That's soft atheism.

If you believe we cannot know if God exists (until we die) then that would be agnosticism

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Ghost147

I would say I'm an agnostic.

I don't refuse there being a god because I can't prove it.

I don't say there is a god because I can't prove it.

There is no evidence there is or is not a god. I'll wait and see when I die

That's soft atheism.

If you believe we cannot know if God exists (until we die) then that would be agnosticism

So I'm both an agnostic and an atheist?

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Ghost147

I would say I'm an agnostic.

I don't refuse there being a god because I can't prove it.

I don't say there is a god because I can't prove it.

There is no evidence there is or is not a god. I'll wait and see when I die

That's soft atheism.

If you believe we cannot know if God exists (until we die) then that would be agnosticism

So I'm both an agnostic and an atheist?

If your stance on the matter is "I do not have a belief in any God due to a lack of evidence and there is no way for us to know if God exists until we die " that would make you an agnostic atheist.

If your stands is "I don't have a belief in any God due to a lack of evidence, but we may be able to find evidence for one in the future " that would make you an atheist alone (specifically a soft atheist)

Many people believe the definition of agnosticism is a "non stance", but the actual definition is that "we cannot know", not "I have no opinion either way"

a reply to: Ghost147

We don't have evidence either way, never said we would find proof. I already said I'd find out when I die.

So by that and your definitions that would make me an agnostic atheist, no?

a reply to: Ghost147

I just thought. Is it because of the bit I said if it came down it would have to prove it was god? (I said that earlier)

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Ghost147

We don't have evidence either way, never said we would find proof. I already said I'd find out when I die.

Haha, "finding out when you die" isn't exactly evidence, at least not for the rest of humanity.

I'm not at a computer right now so I can't copy and paste any definitions and link you to them.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Ghost147
So by that and your definitions that would make me an agnostic atheist, no?

I'm afraid not. That would still make you a soft atheist.

Once again, it's a matter of it being possible to know if a God exists or not (while we're alive).

If you believe it is possible to know if a God exists, but currently lack a belief that one does, then you're an atheist.

If you believe it isn't possible to know if a god exists, and still lack a belief that one does, then you're an agnostic atheist.

Agnosticism is merely a statement that "we cannot know"

For instance, at the other end of the spectrum would be an agnostic theist. A person whom believes that a god exists, but also states that we are unable to know anything about it or varify it.

You may have heard a person say "I don't think we could really conceive a god (referring to that we may not be mentally capable to) but I just have a feeling that one exists"

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Ghost147

I just thought. Is it because of the bit I said if it came down it would have to prove it was god? (I said that earlier)

I don't recall you saying that. I was just commenting on the quote that Chester posted of your response

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Ghost147

I just thought. Is it because of the bit I said if it came down it would have to prove it was god? (I said that earlier)

I don't recall you saying that. I was just commenting on the quote that Chester posted of your response

Ah ok. I'm sure I said it in here somewhere, might have been a different thread.

My stance is all based on evidence. We don't have any for either side of the argument. I can't possibly know if there is or isn't until I die or it comes down and proves it.

I was brought up Church of England (Christian), Christian primary school, church on Sunday, Sunday school, but never had a belief in god because there has never been any proof for me.

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Ghost147

I just thought. Is it because of the bit I said if it came down it would have to prove it was god? (I said that earlier)

I don't recall you saying that. I was just commenting on the quote that Chester posted of your response

Ah ok. I'm sure I said it in here somewhere, might have been a different thread.

My stance is all based on evidence. We don't have any for either side of the argument. I can't possibly know if there is or isn't until I die or it comes down and proves it.

I was brought up Church of England (Christian), Christian primary school, church on Sunday, Sunday school, but never had a belief in god because there has never been any proof for me.

But you do believe that a god could be proven in some way, sometime in the future, but before you die?

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Ghost147

I just thought. Is it because of the bit I said if it came down it would have to prove it was god? (I said that earlier)

I don't recall you saying that. I was just commenting on the quote that Chester posted of your response

Ah ok. I'm sure I said it in here somewhere, might have been a different thread.

My stance is all based on evidence. We don't have any for either side of the argument. I can't possibly know if there is or isn't until I die or it comes down and proves it.

I was brought up Church of England (Christian), Christian primary school, church on Sunday, Sunday school, but never had a belief in god because there has never been any proof for me.

But you do believe that a god could be proven in some way, sometime in the future, but before you die?

Do I believe it could be proven?
That is such a complicated question for me.

As we all know we can't prove a god doesn't exist because you can't prove a negative.

The only way to prove a god exists is if it comes down and proves it is god. Do I believe it will happen? I would generally say no as I don't believe it will happen, but for some reason I can't rule it out completely (there's this nagging bit in my head saying no is too definitive).

I hope there's an afterlife, reincarnation, a great meeting of souls or something after we die as otherwise the thought of my consciousness just stopping is depressing (went through years of depression just contemplating that very thought).

Long reply I know, but hopefully that helps?