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OP/ED: Cheerleaders at Abu Ghraib

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posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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Dear Mr Graner, if you are reading this, take a word of advice. Change counsel IMMEDIATELY !


I'd echo that sentiment...


Cheerleaders....
Man, what an idiot....
What's next? The prisoners weren't forced to be naked, they were streaking?
Change counsel...stat!!!




posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 11:34 AM
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I almost forgot. Some of them were wearing hoods. Has the KKK relocated? Is it a defense that the victims were members of the KKK?



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 11:40 AM
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Problem is they weren't white were they? Small little slits and burning cross missing as well. Nah! Defence fails, counsel ! Next please ....



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
This is a WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This is not WAR. In my opinion you need to be able to identify your combatants. How can you identify your enemy when civilians, who do not belong to an army, blow their cars up at roadchecks? I do not see them wearing uniforms to identify themselves as combatants.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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Edited for snarkiness.

[edit on 11-1-2005 by brimstone735]



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 10:08 PM
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The guy is guilty. His lawyer posed a weird analogy. It's the best he came up with because he has nothing to work with, or if he has something to work with, he has nothing to work on it with. Posing bad analogies never won an acquittal. He should know enough to shut up when silence is the best choice. Or, he might consider presenting a better defense like . . . the truth!

Many of us have followed the news on Abu Ghraib. It's obvious this guy played perverted cheerleader pyramid games with prisoners because he had a directive from his superiors to do that and worse. Come on, people, we've all been exposed to how the grunt soldiers are trained to be mindless followers. The guy is a dispensable scapegoat, pansy, pawn, tool, used dishwater, whatever! He'll fry because he committed the evil acts on the ground and was trained not to snitch when caught. Or he was threatened with greater harm for snitching than he'll get if he plays along and takes the heat, or maybe a very attractive reward for being the fall guy.

His superiors, who own the real guilt, are hiding behind the chain of command hoping this grunt foot soldier takes the heat so they can escape unaccountable for the unspeakable evil that has sprung from their dark souls.

They will get away with it and commit greater evils another day in the near future, and learn from this misadventure to becareful not to allow the fun stuff to be captured by video and voice recorders. The pathetic shriveled reptilian brains do learn from experience.


[edit on 1/11/2005 by dubiousone]

[edit on 1/11/2005 by dubiousone]



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 12:01 AM
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I would say that this is more like comapring apples and concorde airliners. Belides where were those hot outfits cheerleaders wear or are their areas in the US where they doo the cheering naked. If so could someone please put a link up if they have a website. It might be worth pursuing for the sake of litigation of course



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 12:25 AM
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JamesBlonde, I'm sure you can find naked cheerleaders doing pyramids somewhere on the WetWildWeb. Try Google.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 05:59 AM
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I want naked cheerleaders for our superbowl... Ya, I'm a woman and yes, it will probably bother me to watch grown men drooling on the tv set...but still.
The ruckus that would occur afterwards would offset any discomfort I might feel at the time. It would be interesting just to count how many times the news shows managed to play the reruns and not get into trouble as they came down on those who were responsible for the superbowl. Then in the end, well, those responsible could just divert the discussion to this man, and explain that clothing isn't necessary!



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 06:11 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
The GC is a treaty "bewteen" countries. There is nothing to "abide by". The US will get nuked because it is stupid.

So then you must agree its ok for US servicemen to be tortured and killed if captured?



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by Flyer

Originally posted by DrHoracid
The GC is a treaty "bewteen" countries. There is nothing to "abide by". The US will get nuked because it is stupid.

So then you must agree its ok for US servicemen to be tortured and killed if captured?


Whether I think it's OK or not is irrelevant. It will happen no matter what "we" do. Saddam tortured the prisoners in GW1. Why make a list, it has happen in every war since the idiocy of the GC was signed anyway. It is a FACT. The GC does noting. Never has, EVER.

More "torture" goes on in the back alley's of Las Vegas "sex clubs" than ever happened in Iraq. And it's legal!!!!!!! So why the "righteous indignation" now?



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 06:43 AM
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well, first, having pictures like the ones from the iraqi prison come out like they did did serious harm to our war efforts. in that respect, it would have been better just having them showing the prisoners being fed into Saddam's shredder probably. These pictures just reinforces the terrorist's claims that we are a bunch of immoral, godless, infidels!! At least if they thought they might be shredded, well, there might of been just a tad bit of real fear in them.

and well, look, either this administration considers these acts as wrong, and immoral, and never ordered, supported, or condoned them....or else these men and women who are facing courtmartial really shouldn't be. Since, well, the chain of command and all that. Which is it?
There are other laws and treaties that forbid this kind of treatment to prisoners also. If we are just gonna ignore them at the top levels, well, then why don't we just state our true intentions to the international community, withdraw from the geneva convention, pull the laws our congress and the military policies that have been there for decades off the books, and go on our merry way?

Here's a question for ya....
which came first, our abuse, or the beheadings in Iraq aired on arab news channels?



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
well, first, having pictures like the ones from the iraqi prison come out like they did did serious harm to our war efforts. in that respect, it would have been better just having them showing the prisoners being fed into Saddam's shredder probably. These pictures just reinforces the terrorist's claims that we are a bunch of immoral, godless, infidels!! At least if they thought they might be shredded, well, there might of been just a tad bit of real fear in them.

and well, look, either this administration considers these acts as wrong, and immoral, and never ordered, supported, or condoned them....or else these men and women who are facing courtmartial really shouldn't be. Since, well, the chain of command and all that. Which is it?
There are other laws and treaties that forbid this kind of treatment to prisoners also. If we are just gonna ignore them at the top levels, well, then why don't we just state our true intentions to the international community, withdraw from the geneva convention, pull the laws our congress and the military policies that have been there for decades off the books, and go on our merry way?

Here's a question for ya....
which came first, our abuse, or the beheadings in Iraq aired on arab news channels?


First of all I don't accept the premise that there was "abuse" period. Second Nick Berg was the first "shown" on arab TV. But, based on your logic it is equal that eating "pork" or having the Israeli flag on your shoulders and sawing off heads are the same thing?



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 07:13 AM
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Well have to wait to have the facts come out, and then maybe, just maybe, we will get a full picture of just what did happen. From what I have heard, it sounds like abuse to me. Heck, if my husband held a gun to my head and made me go out to the local mall stark naked, that would be considered abuse, wouldn't it?

If I made my kids stand up against a wall motionless for hours at end, wouldn't that be considered abuse.

maybe there are more meanings for the word abuse....depending on weather or not the abuser is acting on behalf of our government?

on the second issue....as far as you seeing one thing more extreme than another....well, umm...
first, you don't have the same mindset as many in the arab community. You see beheading as a barbaric practice rightfully done away with by our society centuries ago. I do too. I kind of think they might see it as Allah's preferred method of execution. read the Koran, and well, see if you don't get the same impression. So, I am willing to accept that there is a cultural clash there and not try to determine what is worse treatment than what.

the fact is, service men and women are being courtmartialed and I believe imprisoned, so obviously the military courts believe that something wrong and not acceptable under their laws and policies occured. All this would be acceptable to me. War is ugly, and ugly things happen during wars...that will never change. But, well, I've heard and read things that kind of gives me the impression that what happened resulted from orders and policies that were designed at the top, by people in the Bush administration. That, I cannot accept. Either they see it as wrong, and always have, and these people should be courtmartialed, or they thought it was acceptable behavior in which case, the wrong people are being brought before the judges. Because, well, obviously, laws have been broken.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 10:15 PM
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Dr. Horacid: >eating "pork" or having the Israeli flag on your shoulders <


Are you equating the naked Iraqi male cheerleader pyramid trick and Lyndy English enjoying a full-on bare bottoms view with "pork" and the Israeli flag? That comparison never occurred to me. I think you're being too distracted again by those skanks writhing and running around naked in your computer room.

It is a chain-of-command issue. Ultimately, the policymakers are responsible. The buck stops at the depraved top of the chain. These foot soldiers would never have done this unless they were given both the green light and ample encouragement by those in charge.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 06:15 AM
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And, well, I believe that the group that refused to drive the convoy and got into trouble referred to military policies that required that before they could go, certain safety guidelines were to be met, and well, they couldn't be met, so they refused to go....it didn't matter in the hearings, did it....
obviously, disobeying their orders because there's laws and such isn't the answer either. These guys seem to be in a no win situation, which usually results from an abuse of power from above.....not to mention a misappropriations of funds....

$250 billion going into this thing, and we can't provide them with working guns? could someone please explain this to me?



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 06:28 AM
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Originally posted by dubiousone



Dr. Horacid: >eating "pork" or having the Israeli flag on your shoulders <


Are you equating the naked Iraqi male cheerleader pyramid trick and Lyndy English enjoying a full-on bare bottoms view with "pork" and the Israeli flag? That comparison never occurred to me. I think you're being too distracted again by those skanks writhing and running around naked in your computer room.

It is a chain-of-command issue. Ultimately, the policymakers are responsible. The buck stops at the depraved top of the chain. These foot soldiers would never have done this unless they were given both the green light and ample encouragement by those in charge.







One of the "Major" charges against the so called "ringleader" on trial at Ft Hood, is that he made the poor terrorist "eat pork and wear the Israeli flag". It was against Islam. Oh boo hoo..................

The problem isn't anything but MEDIA the hype of the word "TORTURE". It the same ole trick of decrying "police brutaility". The definition of TORTURE is different in many of the ignorant masses in american called LIBERAL and DEMOCRATE. So hear we are equating "eating pork" with sawing off heads. Which is really TORTURE?



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 06:52 AM
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Look the same administration that came down so hard about Jackson's over-revealing herself during the Super Bowl, was in the business of producing some pretty revealing porno flicks themselves. The Christian Right who support these guys need to really be asking themselves a few questions. Ever since that super bowl, they've been flooding the mailbox of the FCC with complaints of all kinds. Even CSI is found to be unacceptable!! Well, here is their great leaders in the pornographic business all along...

Ever hear of any cheerleaders writing to their families telling them to just come and kill them, they've been defiled. Because I've heard a story about a young girl in that prison writing home and asking for this!!

so, if nothing wrong happened, why the court-martials?



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 06:58 AM
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I never siad nothing wrong happened. Just not any torture. These "brig rats" screwed up. They broke the rules. They deserve justice.

It just wasn't TORTURE.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 07:06 AM
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"It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is."

I heard that they were told by their higher ups to produce these pictures, then the prisoners were threatened that they would be let out to the Iraqi population if they weren't cooperative...
Thus, our administration appears to have been in the porn business.

and I am sorry, but chaining someone's legs and hands together and making them stay in that position for hours IS TORTURE, don't believe me, well, let someone do it to you, tell me how much pain you are in afterwards.

And, well, a beheading, if done by a trained profession, can be quit painless....and well, it not, the pain doesn't last long enough for the person to sneak a note out to the family asking them to come and kill them!!
Beheading isn't torture, since well, the primary purpose of torture is to inflict as much pain on the person as posible WITHOUT KILLING THEM!



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