A movie show the B-2 MHD system in action !

I remember that I've heard that Northrop was ready to build new B-2 for a 250 million USD per unit. Posted by UP

Those are likely the conventionally powered all jet versions, without the MHD drives.

Sorry, you can see the clip there :

www.is.northropgrumman.com...

To answer to zion about the plasma stealth generator :

B2 is equipped with a system of creation of plasma using the ambient air flow as generating MHD which allows him, even in subsonic configuration, to be surrounded by plasma.

This last is not visible of day. It is this plasma which makes the aircraft furtive (stealth) while absorbing and by diffusing the waves radar. If this "demonstration b-2" were not to it people would be tempted to put question since a priori it has reputation to be undetectable.

In the clip : this "minimal" system MHD is activated. Normally the electric discharge would not have a visible being. But when the apparatus flies over the sea, a zone saturated with moisture, it carries out a passage into transonic. Let us represent hereafter a profile of wing in transonic mode. At the time one one approaches the speed of sound of the phenomena "of compressibility" apparears in the vicinity of the thickest part of the profile :

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Some testimonies of peoples who saw the B-2 in flight at the begining of the year 2003 :

January 26, 2003:

Following a discussion with a specialist, information concerning the furtivity (stealth) radar. There exists from a long date of the "lapping machines of frequency Translation babelfish... The f'rench term mean double-frequency synthetizer" which are containing crystals of organic origin. Those are used in the lasers. One can thus double the frequency of emission of a laser where energy for example would be initially produced in the infra-red. In the field of the furtivity the idea consists in covering the apparatus by this type of product which will thus return an echo at double frequency of that of the signal sent by the radar for detection. Insofar as the originator of the reception antenna did not take account of this detail the apparatus "would be well detected", an echo would return but the radar of detection would not be able to record it. This detail shows us how the most sophisticated techniques, the creative imaginations most powerful are diverted with the profit of military applications. It is... like that.


February 6, 2003 I received this day a mail of Jacques Antoine, resident with Namur, Belgium:

I wish to feed your reflexion relating to the anomalies of B2 while bearing my own witness to you. In your last work, the photowork of page 128, reproduced on your site recalled me an incident which I at the time (November 2002) had classified as without interest. With the top of my residence (Belgium, in Wépion, to 6 km in the south of Namur), the passages of planes are very frequent. With the practice, one arrives to idenfier a type of aircraft with the ear. Intrigued by an unusual noise of engines, I left with binoculars (12x50), because it seemed to to me that several heavy airplanes approached, whose motorization did not correspond to that of the usual planes. In fact: an obscure clear sky but largely let me see a triangular formation of three airplanes migrating approximativaly of west in is, according to the usual way of the American aircraft forwarding by Belgium. In spite of the darkness, but with the help of the binoculars, I could note that at the head a traditional plane, followed on the left and on the right by two apparatuses came whose fires were unusual, and which I identified as being of B2.
What astonished me, it is a weak discernible low luminosity on the level of the leading edges, which I atribuate to a moon reflection, since at this time the moon more or less right in front of the planes (the moon was invidible for me because of the high vegetation). I was certainly disturbed because I did not include/understand how the TWO wings of the same aircraft could return me the same reflection, but I charged this bizarrery to an error of perception due to the unfavourable conditions of observation (use of powerful binoculars, without stabilizing foot, of night, to observe objects mobile, distant, during a rather short time). I regret not having had the reflex to note the date, the hour, the azimuth, the apparent size, etc but at the time I just thought of having been pilot of a very ordinary transfer of military material if not which it implied of the not very widespread airplane. I join to the present mall a drawing reproducing my observation (or, at least, the memory that I preserved some after three months). You will note that, according to my memory, the zone of clearness in front of the air intakes of the engines seems meaner than on the photograph than you diffused.

www.jp-petit.com...

Has anyone thought the picture's might be doctored in photoshop or something? If the B-2 can't go supersonic, then maybe whoever posted those pic's first, edited them? I dunno

The first pix are extracted from a Northrop-Gruman promotional movie for the B-2.

The pix added to the testimony of a belgian citizen who saw 2 B-2 in flight is a drawn reconstitution...

didn't I provided some info that indicates an aircraft doesn't need to go supersonic to produce those kind of clouds??
They have nothing to do with plasma generators, because the b-2 does not have any...

[Edited on 20-6-2003 by Zion Mainframe]

I am curious about Plasma Stealth -
Just because an object has a diminished radar cross section doesn't mean that it cannot be seen in other bandwidths.
Traditionally plasma generates heat - and thermal seeking missiles are certainly in any theater of operation.

Considering this infrared weakness, would it then be necessary for Plasma Stealth to be based on Cold Plasma to avoid the thermal seeking threat?

Is it feasible and is it operational?

[Edited on 11-1-2004 by intelgurl]

Although this thread is all about a B-2 bomber supposedly breaking the sound barrier I can't help but take my post in a slightly different direction...

Zion Mainframe, in reference to your statement; "I'm sorry but they never released any info about plasma generators on the B-2... "

So?
Would you expect them to release information like that?

Unless you are seriously hooked up with Northrop-Grumman or the USAF then it can be agreed that there are actually a lot of facts about the B-2 that are still not for public consumption, even now... some 15 or 16 years since it came out of the "black".
I therefore don't see how you can make a blanket statement concerning plasma stealth technology not being integrated into the B-2.

So for a moment indulge me as I partially agree with you but object just the same ~

Forget fantasy tales of B-2's and anti-gravity.
Forget rumours of some USAF colonel suposedly saying that the B-2 can fly to the moon.
Forget assumptions of the B-2 utilizing magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) propulsion system for hypersonic travel.
Forget pie in the sky ideas of plasma lasers prepping the air in front of the B-2, etc...
And forget about the B-2 being hypersonic or even so much as breaking the sound barrier.
Forget all these things for a moment...


B-2, Electrostatically Charged:
Plasma? Maybe not, but one thing that I do believe concerning the B-2 is that the leading edges are indeed charged with high voltage, and quite possibly the trailing edges or the exhaust as well. I've read it and I've spoken to grounds crew - and I believe it.

Sure, the military & defense industry provided the news media/general public with some information about the craft's outward design, and low radar and infrared profile, there is much they continue to be silent about.
Some key secrets about the B-2 were leaked to the press in the March 9, 1992 "Aviation Week and Space Technology" magazine, in this issue it was reported that the B-2 electrostatically charges its exhaust stream and the leading edges of its wing-like body. Janes Defense Weekly and other reputable publications also picked up on this and many field related acamedicians, intrigued laymen, industry professionals and conspiracy theorists alike began to hypothesize why this was done.

A little history:
In 1968 Northrop submitted a paper to the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics entitled "Electro-Aerodynamics in Supersonic Flow". The thrust of the paper had to do with drag reduction and cutting heat friction and fuel burn. It was also noted in this paper that plasma surrounding an aircraft actually reduces it's radar cross section.
This is a dual-purpose technology that Northrop, the designer and manufacturer of the B-2 has known of for well over a quarter of a century.
The Russians too caught onto this and now the internet is filled with web sites touting Russia's "Plasma Stealth Technology" as the latest and greatest thing... and yet it is technology that Northrop had back in 1968.

Moving forward in history we come to the time that the Advanced Technology Bomber (B-2) was being developed, with Northrop winning the contract over Lockheed's Skunkworks...That in itself is pretty amazing actually.
So perhaps, (and this is just as "perhaps"), Northrop won out over Lockheed based on their knowledge and continuing progress in electrically reduced radar cross section & electro-aerodynamics simultaneously.

I offer a supposition that in the 36 years that Northrop has held this technology that they have found an alternative to requiring plasma generation to contribute to an electrically reduced radar cross section... Plasma after all produces heat which would offer a significant target to thermal seeking ordinance, unless they have found a way to produce cold plasma outside of an Argon gas controlled environment, which could be an even more significant breakthrough technology.

A Few Considerations:
So, IF the various reports are indeed true about the B-2 charging it's leading edges, could it be that this grossly underpowered, 325-375,000 lb flying wing utilizes this charge for a duality of functions.
1. The first function of this charge would have to be some form of reduction of radar cross-section.
2. But what is also clear by the nature and implications of Northrop's 1968 research paper, is that the electrostatic field could actually provide a parallel reduction in drag and a concomitant improvement in lift - even to a sub-sonic vehicle.

Electro-Aerodynamics instead of Electrogravitics, Electro-static stealth instead of plasma stealth... and it all stems from Northrop's research paper way back in 1968. The B-2, I believe, is the embodiment of that research.

I hope I have conveyed my thoughts adequately, I do have more but I'll stop there for now~

Documents referenced :

AIAA 6th Aerospace Sciences Meeting "Electroaerodynamics in supersonic flow" by M.S.Cahn and G.M.Andrew from Northrop Coporation - N°68-24 January 22-24, 1968.

AIAA 3rd Fluid and Plasma Dynamics conference "Recent experiments in supersonic regime with electrostatic charges" by M.S.Cahn and G.M.Andrew from Northrop Coporation - N°70-759 June 29-July, 1970.

"Disruption Mitigation Using High-Pressure Noble Gas Injection on DIII-D" A study in Cold Plasma, CJ Lasnier, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, CA (US Dept of Energy, Grant #DE-FG103-95ER54294)

"Aviation Week and Space Technology" magazine, March 9, 1992

"Nick Cook, Aviation Editor for "Jane's Defense Weekly" - "The Hunt for Zero Point" July 2002

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[Edited on 12-1-2004 by intelgurl]

Yes, there are frequency doubling crystals used at optical frequencies.

It would not be out of the range of possibliities to design stealth material to do the same at microwave (radar) frequencies.

This would happen by some kind of nonlinearity. In fact you might be able to actively embed thin wires in the panels with other electronics in order to perform this function 'automatically'.

Of course you would prefer to absorb the radar completely, but that may not be possible in general, of course the enemy will be designing radars of varying frequencies and pattenrs to try to defeat this.

The second point regarding electrostatic charging the air.

there is a huge diference between doing this for MHD effects and for
"anti gravity". The first would be an innovative application of known physics. The second would be total new physics and is very unlikely.

This 'biefield brown' effect has never been adequately reproduced or demonstrated to be new physics.

The real difference between just another force, and true "anti-gravity": what you want is not just an "anti-gravity" device, even a hot air balloon is that, but an "anti-inertia" device. By Einstein equivalence principle that is the same. It is reduction in inertia (or mass or whatever) which would be the ultimate key. This is not possible in standard physics that we know now.

Wow. Intel, you brought this 'dead' thread back to life. Last post before yours was in June of 2003 lol...oh well..

Interesting video, really.

Just had to comment on the dates

-wD

Wow intelgurl.....
If I wasn't engaged, I think I would be "head-hunting" you. (just joking)

Very well said on both your consecutive posts.
Drools.....
"Spoon please....."



regards
seekerof

[Edited on 11-1-2004 by Seekerof]

What a fascinating argument you have presented! I look very forward to see what else you are waiting to add to this topic!

www.smh.com.au...

March 1992 issue of Aviation Week & Space Technology, entitled "Black world engineers, scientists, encourage using highly classified technology for civil applications". For the first time in open literature, this article explained how the B-2's sharp leading edge is charged to "many millions of volts", while the corresponding negative charge is blown out in the jets from the four engines.

"Traditionally plasma generates heat"

There are different types of Plasma. Hot, Cold negative, Cold positive, and some would add anomalous cold negative

The cold Electric Plasma in a neon tube does not generate heat.

The significance of electrically charging the wing and the exhaust needs a close look to understand exactly what happens.

Most likely the leading edge would be charged positive, and the exhaust negative.

As the plane moves through the air the molecules strike the charged surface, and electrons are stripped off. This creates positive ions.

Since the ions are charged the same as the wing surface they are replelled. This would be in a random direction, if the wing were not moving forward. The reaction of the electrostatic repulsion Pushes the plane in the opposite direction(forward).

This ionized air is then attracted to the opposingly charge exhaust. This accelerates the air slightly which creates a greater pressure differential thereby increasing lift.

Thrust from the exhaust is also increased due to eletrostatic repulsion. Because the particles are all charged the same they repel eachother increasing the expansive force. This electro-static pressure is released when the exhaust mixes with neutral air, but not until after it pushed the plane forward.

[Edited on 13-1-2004 by ArchAngel]

Wow! Kudos to Intelgurl and ArchAngel for this research! Intelgurl for the original and Arch Angel for clarifacation.
Great work, but you guys should have done this in a research project instead of being buried back here on this thread.

Yes, thank you ArchAngel for your further clarification of the AW&ST magazine article, cold plasma and the further explanation on electroaerodynamics... quite frankly my brain was fried - I just had to stop.

I guess cold plasma can be made in any inert gas, be it argon, neon or whatever. I would think it would truly be a breakthrough if they were able to do it in a common atmospheric environment... maybe some of the other theories could come to fruition. I'll make some calls and see if I can drill down on this more...

Maybe Solaris was right, it should have been posted in a new thread or something...

anyway - good work ArchAngel...

"I guess cold plasma can be made in any inert gas"

All matter can become plasma. It is simply the fourth state of matter.

Solid, liquid, gas, plasma.

Higher energy states yield different physical states. The last change can occur with either thermal, or electrical energy. 'Cold' plasma does not get colder, or absorb heat. It is designated that to differentiate between hot plasma.

By simple bringing two opposingly charged high voltage surfaces near each other air can be used to create plasma.(the purpose of bringing them near would be to increase the voltage through eletostatic attraction.

WOW!! Could atmospheric conditions be involved?
say a very fast and hot aircraft flying in very cold
air. Well done IntelGurl 4 your post. Freaky

"say a very fast and hot aircraft flying in very cold
air."

Hot plasma is formed on the wings of the shuttle, and on the tip of rockets, but hot plasma is not charged as cold plasma is. The electro-static attractive, and repulsive forces are not present. There is no reaction without ions, and charged surfaces.(Note: You can charge hot plasma, or heat cold plasma, but the electrical, and thermal energy must be added. No free lunch...)

[Edited on 13-1-2004 by ArchAngel]

[Edited on 13-1-2004 by ArchAngel]

Plasma of all types is the perfect Stealth material. If you could create even a small area of plasma in front of the wing as it traveled through this the plane would be effectively concealed from radar. The trick is to do it without creating a sore thumb target with the plasma generating system.

Plasma has the unique abilty to absorb EM radiation in virtually all frequencies.

Don't believe me?

Put a short candle in a microwave. Light it and turn the power on.

Be ready to turn it off quickly.....