I'm a realist and sadly here is why men and women will never be equal.

When I was a little girl, (50's) our pastor asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. Hmmm... maybe a soldier? "Oh no, girls aren't soldiers!" he told me. Maybe I can be a doctor! "You mean a nurse, right?" was his reply. Years later I finished putting myself through college, and received my commission as a US Navy officer. Girls can't be soldiers, indeed!

Through the years I continued taking college courses and CLEP exams, and upon retirement I completed my PhD and became the doctor that he said I couldn't be.

Through it all, it was never about me, my abilities, or my ability to raise a family, but rather about shattering stereotypes of what I can or can't be/do based on physical sex.

Excuses are just that... excuses to justify social prejudices. It's time to change that cycle.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Annee

Yep, my husband's male cousin took 12 weeks of paternity leave to take care of their newborn. His wife took 1 week of vacation for the birth, then went back to work.

When I worked and my daughter would get sick, my husband and I took turns staying home to take care of her. So in that respect, neither one of us took off more time than the other.

ETA: Oh yeah, I also knew another couple who split up their leave. The wife took 6 weeks maternity leave, then the husband took 6 weeks paternity leave. Split it right down the middle.

Yes. And then there is extended family, which I think is something we need to go back to.

Yeah, I have accepted that I will never be as good as a woman.

I'll make sure to show this post to the wife.

a reply to: frostie

There can be no true equality when the Middle East treat women of less value than their camels.

I do not feel a woman President in these trying time is a good idea. However, I would be ok with a woman as POTUS....the world needs to catch up first.

a reply to: frostie

our you trolling the femminists now?, i thank you now i know which feminist members to avoid

on a serious note women and men are different and always will be, women are most likley to be good at some things, men are most likely to be good at some things. simple fact.

Along with the for-mentioned truth i also know all humans deserve the same opprotunities and freedoms. man or women.

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1

on a serious note women and men are different and always will be, women are most likley to be good at some things, men are most likely to be good at some things. simple fact.

We are. Genders are biologically different.

But, what makes me laugh ---- let's compare Men to other Men.

No Equal there. LOL

Im still yet to see anyone take a stance on if this whole topic revolves around our Biology and Genetics, plus the social boundaries we all construct.

I didnt expect to get attacked and flamed this much, I should've known better.

"Deny Ignorance" psh, out the window.

a reply to: kaylaluv

i dont know about the other stuff you wrote but womens suffrage came about so politicians could dupe and manipulate more people.

a reply to: DOCHOLIDAZE1

Then dammit, everyone deserves an equal opportunity to be manipulated!

originally posted by: frostie
Im still yet to see anyone take a stance on if this whole topic revolves around our Biology and Genetics, plus the social boundaries we all construct.

I didnt expect to get attacked and flamed this much, I should've known better.

"Deny Ignorance" psh, out the window.

Know the difference between Equal Opportunity and being biologically Equal.

As said, compare Man against Man --- you won't get biologically Equal there either.

a reply to: Annee

more than just gender difference, social as well, not to mention almost every other human construct

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: kaylaluv

i dont know about the other stuff you wrote but womens suffrage came about so politicians could dupe and manipulate more people.

Strange.

Can't think of anything else to go with that comment.

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: Annee

more than just gender difference, social as well, not to mention almost every other human construct

But, that applies to both genders also.

a reply to: Annee

I believe that Biologically equality impacts Equal opportunity.

OP is pretty small minded isn't he?

I'd like to ask how would your perfect black and white world fit with a transgender female such as myself in it? But don't bother to reply because you've proven yourself too quite incapable of stepping out of your cavemen logic.

All women have babies? Are you serious? Shocker, some men get pregnant and have babies, transgender men!!

a reply to: frostie

The gender roles are important social and biological factors to any society, and we should commend rather than malign the choices of mothers to raise their children, while the father provides the resources. Then again, it would unwise to disparage those who do it differently.

a reply to: frostie

I will provide an argument for my stance that will consist of many real world examples, most of them I have witnessed over time.

We have different definitions of "many".

Take two aspiring college professors, one male and one female of course. Both of their end goals are to teach at a college for their career and achieve tenure.

So why do women ever achieve tenure? They're doing the same job, they should be paid the same. It doesn't matter if they pop out a baby, you should get the same pay for doing the same job. Should minimum wage be lower for women since they might get pregnant? You do know that women often work for the VAST majority of those 9 (or get picky and 10) months right?

Whenever It was myself and a fellow female co worker things always went the same.

There are a myriad of reasons why she may have preferred to wash dishes. Perhaps she had an aversion to trash. Perhaps she had experienced something terrible alone outside at night. Perhaps she was being nice and doing the dishes (I would think that would take a LOT longer than taking out the trash).

How you frame a question or argument matters. You framed it poorly, hence the flack. Men and women are different, yes. You're making it sound like women are inferior and deserve less money for doing the same thing. I doubt that there are very many women my height that can curl 50 pound dumbells. That doesn't mean I should get paid more for being a librarian or secretary or doctor. There aren't many jobs out there where physical strength should dictate pay. Should a guy that's stronger than you make more money if you're a lawyer? This smells like MRA nonsense to me. A great example of the equality of the sexes is that Men's Rights Activists and New Wave Feminists are tied for being full of crap and nuts.

So because a woman MAY get pregnant and take maternity leave, she should be paid less? Certain demographics are far more likely to commit a crime and be incarcerated. Should we start paying them less too?

Maternity leave (in the country that matters) is 12 weeks, and it's UNPAID. Other countries offer far more, and there is also paternity leave. They seem to be doing fine.

Even without the scary pregnancy $ (and guess what, those kids are going to be paying for your ass when you can't work anymore) women who don't have children still earn less than their male counterparts.

Should women have to prove they've gone through menopause or had a hysterectomy to get the same pay?

This world is full of give and take. There's a balance. So maybe women can't lift the same heavy things, but they more than make up for it with other talents. In my experience (hey you like anecdotal) women are typically far more empathetic, better at communication (if you're not the guy dating/married to them) and able to be gentle. THEY FREAKING GROW BABIES and poop them out (my PE teacher was a drunk), and they still manage to love the little beast and the man that started the horror train.

Yeah, women and men are different. Different, but certainly equal.

originally posted by: frostie
a reply to: Annee

I believe that Biologically equality impacts Equal opportunity.

Why should it?

In other words, mostly man made.

a reply to: Annee

But, that applies to both genders also.

Hey. Be quite. "Men" are talking.

ETA: quiet

ETA (AGAIN) Well, F___

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: Annee

But, that applies to both genders also.

Hey. Be quite. "Men" are talking.

ETA: quiet

ETA (AGAIN) Well, F___

Expressionless. (No thought, no voice)