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originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: neutrinostargate
No, you didn't show me anything except many factoids about different calendars Mayans were using.
Show me on which date in our modern Gregorian calendar started Mayan long count. Explain me how you arrived to this particular date without using GMT theory. As you may know there are other alternative theories as well, so Im waiting for your explanation.
I have explained like 100 times now the beginning date is August 11th, 3114 BC (Gregorian) or Sept. 6th, 3114 BC (Julian). The GMT correlation is correct.
originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: neutrinostargate
I have explained like 100 times now the beginning date is August 11th, 3114 BC (Gregorian) or Sept. 6th, 3114 BC (Julian). The GMT correlation is correct.
Ok, so you basically agree with the most common explanation.
Now you need to show me that GMT theory was wrong in counting difference about leap years.
You refused to go into details how "they" aka GMT actually made correspondence between our calendar and Mayan long count. Somehow you are sure that "they" did mistake. So, show me what was "their" mistake.
To save you time, they were aware about leap years please stop inventing "their mistake" and debunk it.
5128.767 years from beginning 8/11/3114 BC to end is May 19th, 2016 (Julian) or June 1st, 2016 (Gregorian).
How do we know it is May 19th, 2016?
5128.767/4.123 (Gregorian leap years) or 1 day per 4.123 years = 1245 days
1,872,000 plus 1245 days = 1,873,245
originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: neutrinostargate
5128.767 years from beginning 8/11/3114 BC to end is May 19th, 2016 (Julian) or June 1st, 2016 (Gregorian).
How do we know it is May 19th, 2016?
5128.767/4.123 (Gregorian leap years) or 1 day per 4.123 years = 1245 days
1,872,000 plus 1245 days = 1,873,245
Forget about years. Using years division calculations is not good enough.
1. GMT theory states that you accept the date August 11-th 3114 BC as the starting day of Mayan long count.
2. Now you need 1.800.000 days to count
3. Show me that 1.800.000 days end count doesn't fall on December 2012. ( I want to stay with some days errors since there are slightly different GMT correlations with error of 2-5 days. So, correspondingly the start day can be somewhere in August 3114 B.C.)
5128.767 years is what ? where this number come from ? what is so sacred about May 19-th ?
1245 days is what ? All you are doing is some redundant calculations proving nothing.
And how in the world did you get 1,800,000 days? WTF? LOL
Sept 6th, 3114 BC (Julian) is 1,872,000 days to Dec. 21st, 2012 (Gregorian) using a the Gregorian 365.2425 solar year. That is a total of 5125.36 years
www.msevans.com...
Sept 6th, 3114 BC (Julian) is 1,872,000 days to May 19th, 2016 using the Haab vague 365 solar year. That is a total of 5128.767 years
originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: neutrinostargate
Sept 6th, 3114 BC (Julian) is 1,872,000 days to Dec. 21st, 2012 (Gregorian) using a the Gregorian 365.2425 solar year. That is a total of 5125.36 years
www.msevans.com...
Sept 6th, 3114 BC (Julian) is 1,872,000 days to May 19th, 2016 using the Haab vague 365 solar year. That is a total of 5128.767 years
This can not be. 1.872.000 days is exactly 1.872.000 days. You don't count them with neither Gregorian or Mayan Haab.
All modern researchers counting them with JND. Which makes all needed calculations needed for leap years the dates around 45 B.C. and other difficult to count dates during all this period.
en.wikipedia.org...
table
Long Count Gregorian date
GMT (584283) correlation Julian day
number
13.0.0.0.0 Mon, Aug 11, 3114 BCE 584 283
1.0.0.0.0 Thu, Nov 13, 2720 BCE 728 283
2.0.0.0.0 Sun, Feb 16, 2325 BCE 872 283
3.0.0.0.0 Wed, May 21, 1931 BCE 1 016 283
4.0.0.0.0 Sat, Aug 23, 1537 BCE 1 160 283
5.0.0.0.0 Tue, Nov 26, 1143 BCE 1 304 283
6.0.0.0.0 Fri, Feb 28, 748 BCE 1 448 283
7.0.0.0.0 Mon, Jun 3, 354 BCE 1 592 283
8.0.0.0.0 Thu, Sep 5, 41 CE 1 736 283
9.0.0.0.0 Sun, Dec 9, 435 1 880 283
10.0.0.0.0 Wed, Mar 13, 830 2 024 283
11.0.0.0.0 Sat, Jun 15, 1224 2 168 283
12.0.0.0.0 Tue, Sep 18, 1618 2 312 283
13.0.0.0.0 Fri, Dec 21, 2012 2 456 283
2456283-584283=1872000
Julian Day Number may be confusing name. Let's call it the most precise scientific way of day counting currently available. Period.
A day is going to be defined by a solar year. A day is different in a Gregorian solar count, a Julian solar count, and a Mayan Haab.
1,872,000 days plus 1245 days (adding in leap days) = 1,873,245 days
2,457,528 - 1,873,245 days = 584,283 which matches!
So all in all, it looks like the date is May 19th, 2016 (Gregorian date and not the Julian date), which is highly significant!
originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: neutrinostargate
A day is going to be defined by a solar year. A day is different in a Gregorian solar count, a Julian solar count, and a Mayan Haab.
A day is defined as 86 400 seconds in the international system of units SI.
How many such day units fitting into Gregorian, Julian or Mayan Haab is another question.
I believe that modern JDN count (or more precise NASA adjusted derivatives) using constant day length of 86400 seconds.
I found very extensive page of calculations from different Calendars in use to and from JDN aa.quae.nl...
It has also section about Mayan calendars. You wrote earlier that JDN using 365.25 solar year notation, please notice how they avoid decimal fractions.
"All these manipulations of the calendar create complex problems for historians. It might be enough to make them throw up their hands and say "Forget months and years, the only certainty is days!" Joseph Justus Scaliger (1540-1609), a French classical scholar, did just that in 1582, when he invented the Julian period, named after his father, Julius Caesar Scaliger. This was a period of 7,980 years, derived from the product of 28 times 19 times 15.
Why these numbers? Well, 28 refers to the number of years in the Julian calendar it takes for dates to fall again on the same days of the week, the so-called solar cycle. The figure 19 comes from the Metonic cycle of 19 years, devised by Meton of Athens in 432 BCE, although known in China as early as 2260 BCE. The basis of ancient Greek, Jewish, and other calendars, it shows the relationship between the lunar and solar year. In 19 years of exactly 365.25 days each (the Julian, or solar year), there are 235 lunar cycles, with seven of these years having a 13th, or embolistic, month. At the end of the cycle, the phases of the moon recur on a particular day in the solar year. The Metonic cycle was important because it established a lunar calendar having a definite rule for intercalary months, and didn't get out of phase with the cycle of tropical (seasonal) years.
Why was 4713 BCE used as the starting date for the Julian period? Scaliger chose 12:00 UT, 1 January of that year for Julian day 0.0 because it was the nearest past year when all three cycles, solar, Metonic, and indiction, exactly coincided. The present Julian period will end at 12:00 UT, 31 December 3267. "
originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: neutrinostargate
1,872,000 days plus 1245 days (adding in leap days) = 1,873,245 days
2,457,528 - 1,873,245 days = 584,283 which matches!
So all in all, it looks like the date is May 19th, 2016 (Gregorian date and not the Julian date), which is highly significant!
Ok, now you can celebrate 1,873,245 days as a very significant day.
I couldn't see what is so special in 1,872,000 days even if all those modern Mayanists did it correct starting from some obscure day in 3114 B.C. I can care less if it is 1,873,245 days.
I still disagree with your explanation that you need to add 1245 days, I would suspect that ancient Maya wouldn't understand why they need to add 1245 days according to some heathen Julian or Gregorian leap years. They probably counted days from
"dawn to dusk" ,so to speak, and when they reached freakin 1,872,000 days they would be very happy. Now you added more to the misery
Here, JDN used 365.25 solar days. End of story
Two years later Julius got knifed, but his calendar ticked along until 7 BCE, when it was interfered with during the reign of Augustus. The fifth month, Quintilis (the year started with the spring equinox, in Martius, or March), which had been renamed Julius (our July) after the deceased Caesar, had 31 days. Augustus, or the Roman Senate, wanted a month named after the emperor, so the next month, Sextilis, with 30 days, was changed to Augustus, and given the same number of days as Julius. The extra day was taken from the final month, Februarius. This alteration left three months together, July, August, and September each with 31 days, contrary to logical alternating 31/30-day months of Sosigenes. To remedy this, September and November lost their 31st days to October and December. That's why we have to remember "thirty days hath September ..."
To make matters worse, after Julius died, the leap year was being added every third, instead of every fourth, year. Augustus put a stop to this by eliminating leap years from about 5 BCE to 8 CE (A.D.).
The problem is researchers threw out the Mayan Haab solar year, threw in the Gregorian solar year and arrived at 12/21/21 or 1,872,000 days later. That is 5125.36 years or 5125 years 132 days.