Black Lives Matter Activists Interrupt Hillary Clinton At Private Event In South Carolina

a reply to: Annee

Hillary "moving forward" is the scariest part !!!

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Edumakated

1) You have not proven the higher incarceration rates are a result of systematic racism. The fact that blacks are disproportionately in the criminal justice system does not mean that statistic is a result of systematic racism. There are cultural and other issues at play.

Agreed, culture and other things do play a part. We have to be open to those possibilities, as we have to also be open to the idea that certain groups of people have been targeted by Law enforcement and the Justice system because of their race.

The statistics are clearly disproportionate, but I doubt that would be considered the "proof" you would desire.

2) The fact BLM spring out of Mike Brown changes the validity of the message because it brings into question the accuracy of the claims.

You've already questioned the validity of the claim through "cultural" means before the MB issue was even considered. The Michael Brown issue is only relevant if the BLM centers their entire movement around that case, which is not so. MB has become nothing more than a red herring to distract from the issues of systemic racism and disparity.

3) Agree, logical fallacy. Nevertheless, it is not on me to prove to the systematic racism exists as I am not the one making the claim that is a huge issue. If someone is going to claim that systematic racism is holding black people down in 2016, I need some concrete proof beyond specious claims like higher incarceration rates.

The incarceration rates of blacks are higher than those of other colors. The question is why. Despite BLM's horrible beginnings, we should be willing to engage in a conversation on this topic and not dismiss them outright.

Blacks also dominate the NBA, can we claim the NBA is engaged in reverse racism? It is racist when there are hardly any black golfers, but everything is all great when blacks dominate the NBA?

Forgive me if I choose not to expand on this absurdity. Apples and oranges.

4) The political class I am referring to is almost entirely on the left side of the political spectrum when it comes to blacks. Last time I checked, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the other zoot suit wearing preachers weren't voting Republican.

That may be true, but you forget that those individuals you listed are also going in to those communities to talk to people in an attempt to affect change. Could it be that they vote a certain way because they feel the Republicans would not be willing to address the issues properly?

Perhaps that fact says more about the Republican party than it does a few people like Sharpton and Jackson.

Most of the cities where all this alleged systematic racism is occurring are almost entirely run by Democrats and blacks. So somewhere, BLM is not connecting dots to the current situation that they are protesting.

You are contradicting yourself. First you question whether systemic racism even exists, opting for culture as being the problem, but are blaming Democrats for running the cities in which system racism is occurring.

Does systemic racism exist or not? You can't deny it on one hand and then blame the Left for what you deny on the other.

He's not contradicting himself, he didn't say democrats are at fault, he simply pointed out the fact that the areas where the supposed systematic racism occurs are left leaning, while the BLM tend to rail against the right. Obviously that's ironic.

Dude, are you black?

If not, maybe settle down?

You're debating the state of racism against blacks in America, with a black man, and telling him he's wrong with his astute observations.

If you aren't black, what the hell makes you think you'd know better than him? Anecdotal stories and bleeding heart mind set?

If you are black, I apologize, and carry on.

a reply to: Psychonautics

He's not contradicting himself, he didn't say democrats are at fault, he simply pointed out the fact that the areas where the supposed systematic racism occurs are left leaning, while the BLM tend to rail against the right. Obviously that's ironic.

Blaming Democrats was exactly what he tried to do, but in doing so contradicted himself.

Dude, are you black?

Why does that matter? If I said yes, would that change the validity of my comments?

If not, maybe settle down?

Settle down? We are having a conversation, not an argument.

You're debating the state of racism against blacks in America, with a black man, and telling him he's wrong with his astute observations.

Just because they are black does not mean they are correct, nor does it invalidate my assertions. What you have said is illogical and absurd.

If you aren't black, what the hell makes you think you'd know better than him? Anecdotal stories and bleeding heart mind set?

I did not say I know better. I'm simply giving my opinion and discussing the issue. Also, I have not used or provided any anecdotal stories for the purpose of this discussion. Others, including yourself, have or are appealing to those logical fallacies.

The entire idea that they would know better because they are black appeals to illogical anecdotal information.

If you are black, I apologize, and carry on.

And if I'm not?

Your post is ridiculous. It's insulting to think that the validity of my opinion is dependent upon the color of my skin.

I live in SC currently. We need to stop everything and pick up the roadside, parking lot, and beach side TRASH. The pollution IS EPIC here. Everyone needs to spend some time this weekend while its cool out to pick up litter. I am so embarrassed and saddened by the garbage floating around in our state. Then we can all focus on politics. First let's clean up our environment. It is something we can do immediately.

originally posted by: xuenchen
This might be what triggered the planned "interruption"....

Hillary Clinton on "Superpredators"

Hillary Clinton speaking in Keene, New Hampshire, on January 25, 1996. For some historical context about the "superpredators" panic

13 seconds of some speech???????....no context or details????........c'mon (rolls eyes) we're not all stupid here on ATS

“They are not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kinds of kids that are called ‘super-predators.’ No conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended that way, but first we have bring them to heel"

I missed the part where she is specifically reffering to black people.

It seems to have been a media sensation in the mid 90s that was not race specific.

This 1995 Weekly Standard article titled "THE COMING OF THE SUPER -- PREDATORS" specifically mentions white youths in addition to black youths.

And make no mistake. While the trouble will be greatest in black inner-city neighborhoods, other places are also certain to have burgeoning youth-crime problems that will spill over into upscale central-city districts, inner-ring suburbs, and even the rural heartland. To under-score this point, Abraham recounted a recent townhall meeting in a white working-class section of the city that has fallen on hard times: "They're becoming afraid of their own children. There were some big beefy guys there, too. And they're asking me what am I going to do to control their children." I interviewed Abraham, just as I have interviewed other justice-system officials and prison inmates, as a reality check on the incredibly frightening picture that emerges from recent academic research on youth crime and violence. All of the research indicates that Americans are sitting atop a demographic crime bomb. And all of those who are closest to the problem hear the bomb ticking.

www.weeklystandard.com...

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Psychonautics

He's not contradicting himself, he didn't say democrats are at fault, he simply pointed out the fact that the areas where the supposed systematic racism occurs are left leaning, while the BLM tend to rail against the right. Obviously that's ironic.

Blaming Democrats was exactly what he tried to do, but in doing so contradicted himself.

Dude, are you black?

Why does that matter? If I said yes, would that change the validity of my comments?

If not, maybe settle down?

Settle down? We are having a conversation, not an argument.

You're debating the state of racism against blacks in America, with a black man, and telling him he's wrong with his astute observations.

Just because they are black does not mean they are correct, nor does it invalidate my assertions. What you have said is illogical and absurd.

If you aren't black, what the hell makes you think you'd know better than him? Anecdotal stories and bleeding heart mind set?

I did not say I know better. I'm simply giving my opinion and discussing the issue. Also, I have not used or provided any anecdotal stories for the purpose of this discussion. Others, including yourself, have or are appealing to those logical fallacies.

The entire idea that they would know better because they are black appeals to illogical anecdotal information.

If you are black, I apologize, and carry on.

And if I'm not?

Your post is ridiculous. It's insulting to think that the validity of my opinion is dependent upon the color of my skin.

If you honestly believe being black or not has nothing to do with being able to factually speak on what racism against blacks is like in America, you're diluted.

You sound like my sister, she lives in NYC. Last conversation I had with her was scary, she basically said, defending BLM actions, "you will never know what it's like to be discriminated against just because you're black."

B!tch, neither do you! You're a white chick from suburbia! Lol.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: Edumakated

2) The fact BLM spring out of Mike Brown changes the validity of the message because it brings into question the accuracy of the claims.

Not necessarily... It gave people a chance in the U.S to address the issue of police brutality. Granted this is an issue that extends beyond racial discrimination as more incidents pile up. What BLM has become since its inception is nothing short of a racist organization almost to the degree of the Black Panthers. The exception being with the panthers,whom arguably were dealing with legitimate systematic racism from law enforcement that was undeniable even at the time.

I don't necessarily think BLM was the catalyst, but more so social media and the ubiquitous nature of cell phones and other video devices. I think many people have been sheltered from what dirty work policing can be and thus shocked. It is kind of like how they don't realize the brutality of war.

With that said, I do think police and government in general has become to militarized and hopefully, this exposure will turn the tide.

There has always been a rift in the black community and police. Much of it well deserved. I can imagine that for many who live in heavily policed communities, the police do come off like an occupying force. At the same time, the predatory behavior in many of these same communities seems to warrant the heavy handed approach.

I don't deny that there is racism, I just think it has become an convenient excuse for our own failings.

If you aren't a marine, you can't talk about what it's like to be a Jarhead, only repeat what you hear.

If you aren't a cop, the same.

Teacher, the same.

Japanese American during WW2, the same.

Talking about racism towards blacks is no different, if you aren't black, you're not speaking from experience. You're speaking from the outside looking in.

a reply to: Psychonautics

If you honestly believe being black or not has nothing to do with being able to factually speak on what racism against blacks is like in America, you're diluted.

I did not say that. What I did say is that the color of my skin does not automatically invalidate my opinion, nor does their skin color make their argument factually correct.

You sound like my sister, she lives in NYC. Last conversation I had with her was scary, she basically said, defending BLM actions, "you will never know what it's like to be discriminated against just because you're black."

I have not said anything close to resembling that nonsense. Please keep your incorrect projections to yourself.

originally posted by: introvert

Incarceration rates being higher among blacks when compared to other people of color. Longer sentences, etc.

Where is the evidence this is because of racism?

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: introvert

Incarceration rates being higher among blacks when compared to other people of color. Longer sentences, etc.

Where is the evidence this is because of racism?

I didn't say that it was all due to racism. It's a possibility among other factors. Why are we so quick to dismiss that possibility in order to invalidate a movement's cause for petty, political purposes?

My sister is a fairly left leaning BLM supporter who believes her pasty white butt has the experience to speak objectively on what it's like or not like to deal with racism against blacks.

You're on here clearly supporting BLM and arguing with a black man, who you've told multiple times is incorrect about his own observations ABOUT BEING A BLACK MAN IN AMERICA. Neither you nor my sister are black, but you both feel you are objectively correct when speaking on black lives and what they experience. Laughable.

You can debate all you want, but to start saying your statements are correct, and his are false, and him being black and you aren't doesn't matter, it's pretty ignorant.

Take the logical fallacies and projections and go back to psych 101, it's just reality;

When being objective on the experiences of black life in America, yes a black mans opinion is more valid than yours or mine.

originally posted by: Psychonautics

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Psychonautics

He's not contradicting himself, he didn't say democrats are at fault, he simply pointed out the fact that the areas where the supposed systematic racism occurs are left leaning, while the BLM tend to rail against the right. Obviously that's ironic.

Blaming Democrats was exactly what he tried to do, but in doing so contradicted himself.

Dude, are you black?

Why does that matter? If I said yes, would that change the validity of my comments?

If not, maybe settle down?

Settle down? We are having a conversation, not an argument.

You're debating the state of racism against blacks in America, with a black man, and telling him he's wrong with his astute observations.

Just because they are black does not mean they are correct, nor does it invalidate my assertions. What you have said is illogical and absurd.

If you aren't black, what the hell makes you think you'd know better than him? Anecdotal stories and bleeding heart mind set?

I did not say I know better. I'm simply giving my opinion and discussing the issue. Also, I have not used or provided any anecdotal stories for the purpose of this discussion. Others, including yourself, have or are appealing to those logical fallacies.

The entire idea that they would know better because they are black appeals to illogical anecdotal information.

If you are black, I apologize, and carry on.

And if I'm not?

Your post is ridiculous. It's insulting to think that the validity of my opinion is dependent upon the color of my skin.

If you honestly believe being black or not has nothing to do with being able to factually speak on what racism against blacks is like in America, you're diluted.

You sound like my sister, she lives in NYC. Last conversation I had with her was scary, she basically said, defending BLM actions, "you will never know what it's like to be discriminated against just because you're black."

B!tch, neither do you! You're a white chick from suburbia! Lol.

I know this might shock you, but many blacks have no idea what real racism is like... which makes it even more comical.

Every black person has experienced some slight or micro aggression that could be considered racist. However, in no way would I ever compare anything that I've experienced in my 42 years as a black man growing up in the south to the outright and blatant racism that my parents and grandparents endured.

This is not to say there isn't any racism, but all the cries of systematic and institutional racism to me is just a convenient excuse for our own failings.

I'd venture even the youngsters / college students who make up BLM haven't experienced even half of what I did growing up.

To be honest, I believe the civil rights movement was too successful. Too successful in the sense that maybe white folks nowadays aren't as racist as we sometimes want to believe. As such, I think this is why there is this huge disconnect.

a reply to: Psychonautics

You're on here clearly supporting BLM

I do not support BLM. I think they are going about this issue all wrong, but I do support the idea of addressing systemic racism, brutality and such.

and arguing with a black man, who you've told multiple times is incorrect about his own observations ABOUT BEING A BLACK MAN IN AMERICA.

I've never said they were incorrect. I've only asserted my opinion on the matter.

Neither you nor my sister are black, but you both feel you are objectively correct when speaking on black lives and what they experience. Laughable.

Your sister has nothing to do with our conversation. I do believe the things I have brought-up need to be addressed, but I have not said that I was completely correct and everything else is not.

You are projecting things, including your sister's own beliefs, on to me. That is not how a logical debate should be conducted.

You can debate all you want, but to start saying your statements are correct, and his are false, and him being black and you aren't doesn't matter, it's pretty ignorant.

Well, then I guess it's a good thing I did not say that.

Take the logical fallacies and projections and go back to psych 101, it's just reality;

I'm not the one using logical fallacies and projections. Perhaps a bit of introspection is in order?

When being objective on the experiences of black life in America, yes a black mans opinion is more valid than yours or mine.

It's sad that a man's opinion is considered "more valid" based on their skin color and not the validity of his claims. If we were talking personal experiences, you would be correct, but my skin color should not be a consideration when simply discussing these issues in an informal manner.

I do apologize that my skin color is not the correct tone required in which is acceptable to have an opinion worthy of consideration. I will step-down from this thread as you have taken it to new levels of insulting absurdity.

It's sad that a man's opinion is considered "more valid" based on their skin color and not the validity of his claims. If we were talking personal experiences, you would be correct, but my skin color should not be a consideration when simply discussing these issues in an informal manner. I do apologize that my skin color is not the correct tone required in which is acceptable to have an opinion worthy of consideration. I will step-down from this thread as you have taken it to new levels of insulting absurdity.

It's insultingly absurd that a grown man believes his opinion is equally valid to everyone else's regardless of, well, anything.

Yes, we all are entitled to have an opinion, foo foo la la.

That doesn't mean someone else's opinion cannot be objectively more valid than yours.

Grow up.

The ironic part is that the inspiration for BLM, Mike Brown, perfectly fits the profile in the original academic papers describing super predators.

a reply to: Psychonautics

It's insultingly absurd that a grown man believes his opinion is equally valid to everyone else's regardless of, well, anything.

You are dismissing my opinion based on what you believe my skin color to be. You don't even know. The real absurdity is that you were willing to apologize and consider my opinion, but only if I told you I was black. Remember saying this?

If you are black, I apologize, and carry on.

So the real issue here is not what I am saying, but the color of my skin.

Yes, we all are entitled to have an opinion, foo foo la la.

Unless the subject is race and my skin is not the proper color, correct?

Grow up.

My...how adult of you.

originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
“They are not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kinds of kids that are called ‘super-predators.’ No conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended that way, but first we have bring them to heel"

I missed the part where she is specifically reffering to black people.

It seems to have been a media sensation in the mid 90s that was not race specific.

This 1995 Weekly Standard article titled "THE COMING OF THE SUPER -- PREDATORS" specifically mentions white youths in addition to black youths.

And make no mistake. While the trouble will be greatest in black inner-city neighborhoods, other places are also certain to have burgeoning youth-crime problems that will spill over into upscale central-city districts, inner-ring suburbs, and even the rural heartland. To under-score this point, Abraham recounted a recent townhall meeting in a white working-class section of the city that has fallen on hard times: "They're becoming afraid of their own children. There were some big beefy guys there, too. And they're asking me what am I going to do to control their children." I interviewed Abraham, just as I have interviewed other justice-system officials and prison inmates, as a reality check on the incredibly frightening picture that emerges from recent academic research on youth crime and violence. All of the research indicates that Americans are sitting atop a demographic crime bomb. And all of those who are closest to the problem hear the bomb ticking.

www.weeklystandard.com...

Remember how liberals were claiming racist Republicans use "dog whistles" to be racist without actually saying black people?

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Psychonautics

It's insultingly absurd that a grown man believes his opinion is equally valid to everyone else's regardless of, well, anything.

You are dismissing my opinion based on what you believe my skin color to be. You don't even know. The real absurdity is that you were willing to apologize and consider my opinion, but only if I told you I was black. Remember saying this?

If you are black, I apologize, and carry on.

So the real issue here is not what I am saying, but the color of my skin.

Yes, we all are entitled to have an opinion, foo foo la la.

Unless the subject is race and my skin is not the proper color, correct?

Grow up.

My...how adult of you.

No, ding dong. I don't care if you post, I don't care if you have your opinion, I'm not dismissing anything and I'm not saying you aren't entitled to speak because you aren't black.

I'm saying you aren't entitled to tell a black man he's wrong and his opinions are logical fallacies, when the subject is living as a black person, and you aren't.

You wouldn't tell a war vet (when you aren't one) his opinions on combat are logical fallacies.

You wouldn't tell a beat cop(wen you aren't one) his opinions of the street he works are logical fallacies.

You wouldn't tell a teacher (when you aren't one) her opinions on the education system are logical fallacies.

Do. You. Understand?

Good.