Answers for Atheists

Next time you are sitting in front of the screen watching porn, or watching a movie with people getting killed gratuitously, or doing 3 miles over the signed speed limit, ask yourself "why doesn't God come down and stop me"? Or after the fact, say "I wish he would make sure that I get caught speeding back there by some camera I didn't know was there".

originally posted by: Cinrad
Next time you are sitting in front of the screen watching porn, or watching a movie with people getting killed gratuitously, or doing 3 miles over the signed speed limit, ask yourself "why doesn't God come down and stop me"? Or after the fact, say "I wish he would make sure that I get caught speeding back there by some camera I didn't know was there".

You want me to watch movies and hope I'm on camera?

No more typing for you.

originally posted by: nobunaga
science = fact
bible = fairy tales

you cant debate an atheist, sorry... but theres no proof of a god...
and if there was proof, theres around 6000 gods. you would have to prove your gods the true god
you cant

And you can't prove he is not.

Also science is not fact. It is a system of ideas people BELIEVE are facts. A tabletop is solid right? At a macroscopic view your right, at a microscopic view it is not and other object can pass though with no issues. Newtonian Physics are the law? Nope only to a certain point then Eisenstein physics take over. Then don't forget that Quantum physics trump both of those in certain areas

I believe in science, but don't make the mistake that just because it is in a science book it it true. Many times we have had to rewrite these books because what we thought was true is in fact just fraction of the truth.

If the true knowledge of the universe is a set of encyclopedias, we would be lucky if we have filled part of the "A" book.

a reply to: randyvs

Life is a test we can't know we're taking. If we did know we'd 'cheat'. Life requires 'honest' answers, thus free will.

Free will is hampered by making the wrong choices which create bad habits and negative patterns.

The choices become a struggle of denial and resistance against what we know is wrong in our heart.

So we know we don't know we know, or something like that.

a reply to: JackReyes
I either missed your post, or it didn't show up in replies until this morning. Whatever the case. I have now read it.

I don't think anyone would argue that our biology, our home, and our universe are amazing and complex, but given our ignorance as a species, we are children in our understanding at this point. Children are often amazed at things they don't understand. The leap from amazing to god is one I'm not willing to make at this point in my life. Been there, done that. For decades.

Nevertheless, even if I were to concede a creator/designer of all that exists, how does that equate to god? Furthermore, how does that equate to ANY god that falls within our childish perceptions and concept of reality? That any group on earth thinks they have a handle on the one true deity is laughable at best, and utterly ridiculous at worst. Especially when the only knowledge we have of those deities comes from books written by children.

The Chance atheists believe in is really just another name for God. It is quite shameful, if they really really knew what they were talking about.

What is shameful to me, is that we are still having this debate in the 21rst century. Yes, we are children, but surely we have learned by now there is no boogeyman under our bed, and no tooth fairy to leave gifts under our pillow. It's time to grow up, and see our fairy tale books for what they are. Mythology. That's not to say we can't learn from those writings, but I don't think Ulysses battled a Cyclops, and I don't believe for a moment the bible, or any other religious text is the word of any creator/designer/deity/god.

The very human concept of "god" should have been outgrown centuries ago. Religion has stunted our growth, and we are hanging on to it, like Linus hangs on to his blanket.

a reply to: Klassified

What a reasonable response.

Another quote from Spinoza this time

If men were born free, they would, so long as they remained free, form no conception of good and evil.
Sin cannot be conceived in a natural state, but only in a civil state, where it is decreed by common consent what is good or bad.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Klassified

What a reasonable response.

Another quote from Spinoza this time

If men were born free, they would, so long as they remained free, form no conception of good and evil.
Sin cannot be conceived in a natural state, but only in a civil state, where it is decreed by common consent what is good or bad.

I definitely need to read more Kant and Spinoza.

a reply to: randyvs

So this local god allows/doesn't allow free will in the Bible,
needed an agent provocateur like Saul/Paul to tarnish the New Testament
created some pretty horrific major religions all at odds with each other
allowed fallen angels and satan to rule this world
and went missing in action when he turned his back on adam & eve prior to them eating of the fruit.

sounds like he's a pretty weak demiurge

Because in the same way you have the right to sit around and
ask condescending questions, in judgement of God!

I dont judge this local petty god, his actions speak for themselves.

I'm waiting for the real creator to come back and kick his butt

a reply to: JackReyes

I haven't watched the video so I don't know what it says, but I have seen these same people ignore rationality

So you havent watched the video but just came by to console Randy and criticize everyone else - rarara have fun

Maybe there is no atheist agenda. Maybe people are just tired to wait for 2000 years for a God to come and make things right so they just stopped believing.
Ever wonder why all the great miracles happened only in the far far past and none recently? No burning bushes, no pillars of fire, no new comandments to fit the modern times. Nothing, just an old book rehashed ad nauseaum.
Maybe the absence of God's presence is what makes people atheists, or at least it makes them wonder.

We are all our own gods, God, as recent Christians have painted him to be, does not exist.

I believe there is a higher entity or whatever you want to call it, to say its not God means im an atheist, to say its something spiritual means I am not.

Its all how you view it, to judge someone elses views is not your problem to deal with.

a reply to: JackReyes

Because if you really believed you had the truth, there would be no need to behave the way you do.

Likewise your condescending behaviour when you came to console Randy without having looked at the video and went straight on the attack. Be honest, go back and look at what you did.

a reply to: veracity

There is a book by Sam Harris you may like.

It's called.

Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion.

Not that you need a book or guide for Spirituality but it's an interesting read.

The OP singles out Harris so I figured I would plug his writing.

a reply to: luthier

thanks

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: JackReyes

Because if you really believed you had the truth, there would be no need to behave the way you do.

Likewise your condescending behaviour when you came to console Randy without having looked at the video and went straight on the attack. Be honest, go back and look at what you did.

It's only condescending when it comes from an atheist/unbeliever, never when it comes from a religious person.

originally posted by: randyvs
I read this morning a sheriffs deputy was shot and killed in
a town called Bailey I believe. And I imagined something
Sam Harris might say. Why didn't God come down and stop
the bullets? Why didn't he do something to save this good
mans life? Why does God allow evil things to happen to good
people?

In short my answer to that goes like this.
Because in the same way you have the right to sit around and
ask condescending questions, in judgement of God! Or not!
The man who shot the deputy in Bailey had the right to pull the
trigger. Or not. I think a lot of the questions Sam Harris or
Richard Dawkins ask and get regurgitated ad-nauseam by
other atheists. Require hardley any thought at all, to answer.
They aren't even good questions.

Not compared to the answers.

You are holding man and God as equals here. You are making a fundamental error. Some would even call it a sin.

You are saying that God has the right to let let this deputy die. That makes sense to me, I wouldn't blame God for letting this happen. Maybe he has a reason for it. But the rest of your argument is basically nihilistic; God can do anything he wants, man can do anything he wants. Actually it's worse; because man can do anything he wants, this gives God the right to do anything he wants. I applaud you. This is a subversion and perversion of two thousand years of western philosophy. Nietzsche might turn in his grave, then get up to buy you a beer and a pretzel.

My point is that we must hold God to higher standards than ourselves. What if I allowed the deputy to be shot, if I could have prevented it? Am I also excused?

Randy, you speak as if we are conscious authors of our actions or beliefs. We have no more free will than a box of rocks.
Our thoughts and actions are and have been proven to be pre-determined, even before we are consciously aware of it. Not by magic deities, but rather your very brain, created on the spot from prior causes.
The magic man in your head is just a distraction from the true nature of existence.

a reply to: randyvs

When people ask a question along the lines of, why does God allow evil, I send them this.


The uncertainties of life and the vicissitudes of existence do not in any manner contradict the concept of the universal sovereignty of God. All evolutionary creature life is beset by certain inevitabilities. Consider the following:

1. Is courage — strength of character — desirable? Then must man be reared in an environment which necessitates grappling with hardships and reacting to disappointments.

2. Is altruism — service of one’s fellows — desirable? Then must life experience provide for encountering situations of social inequality.

3. Is hope — the grandeur of trust — desirable? Then human existence must constantly be confronted with insecurities and recurrent uncertainties.

4. Is faith — the supreme assertion of human thought — desirable? Then must the mind of man find itself in that troublesome predicament where it ever knows less than it can believe.

5. Is the love of truth and the willingness to go wherever it leads, desirable? Then must man grow up in a world where error is present and falsehood always possible.

6. Is idealism — the approaching concept of the divine — desirable? Then must man struggle in an environment of relative goodness and beauty, surroundings stimulative of the irrepressible reach for better things.

7. Is loyalty — devotion to highest duty — desirable? Then must man carry on amid the possibilities of betrayal and desertion. The valor of devotion to duty consists in the implied danger of default.

8. Is unselfishness — the spirit of self-forgetfulness — desirable? Then must mortal man live face to face with the incessant clamoring of an inescapable self for recognition and honor. Man could not dynamically choose the divine life if there were no self-life to forsake. Man could never lay saving hold on righteousness if there were no potential evil to exalt and differentiate the good by contrast.

9. Is pleasure — the satisfaction of happiness — desirable? Then must man live in a world where the alternative of pain and the likelihood of suffering are ever-present experiential possibilities.

a reply to: randyvs

Atheists aren't left with questions there left with answers.

I can give you an answer to every question you ask, but it doesn't mean that I'm right.

I'm agnostic and view both Atheist and those that believe in a Creator as faithful people.

One takes a leap of faith that God exists while the other takes a better educated guess that he doesn't exist.

However because their are no factual evidence to suggest either way and their are way to many unknowns to determine without a doubt if a God exists , it comes down to gut feelings and faith in the end.


We just have no freaking idea is the correct answer to whether god exist.

originally posted by: interupt42

I'm agnostic and view both Atheist and those that believe in a Creator as faithful people.

Faith is believing something for no good reason, theology is based around on this concept. Atheists reject the theist's claims for gods, as you have......otherwise you'd be a theist...

One takes a leap of faith that God exists while the other takes a better educated guess that he doesn't exist.

One group (theists) claim to know gods exist, while atheists do not believe them. Not accepting a claim is not itself a claim.

However because their are no factual evidence to suggest either way and their are way to many unknowns to determine without a doubt if a God exists , it comes down to gut feelings and faith in the end.

We just have no freaking idea is the correct answer to whether god exist.

The claimed existence of gods has yet to be demonstrated, and until it has there is no reason to suspect they do.