King Solomon's Grave???

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posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 04:22 PM
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wasn't sure where this topic fits, so please move it if necessary.

I don't know if this is common in all circles or not, but I have repeatedly heard of King Solomon's grave thru my rasta friends and countless reggae songs.

Most rastas and alot of reggae songs which discuss weed (marijuana) claim that it was found on the grave of King Solomon, which therefore makes the herb, the wise herb, and makes it beneficial and a gift from god.

Now I've been searching all over the net and can't find anything referencing the location of King Solomon's grave, any description etc, except for some band of the same name. Has anyone else ever heard of this and have any info or links that you can direct me to???

thanks in advance.

[edit on 1-10-2005 by worldwatcher]




posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 05:04 PM
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KANEH BOSM

THEN GOD SAID, I GIVE YOU EVERY SEED-BEARING
PLANT ON THE FACE OF THE WHOLE
EARTH, AND EVERY TREE THAT
HAS FRUIT IN IT."
GENESIS 1:29-30


The Second Appearance of Cannabis in Old Testament
In Solomon's Song of Songs, one of the most beautifully written pieces in the Old Testament, Solomon mentions kaneh in describing his bride:



COME WITH ME FROM LEBANON, MY BRIDE, COME WITH ME FROM LEBANON.
DESCEND FROM THE CREST OF AMANA, FROM THE TOP OF SENIR, THE SUMMIT OF HERMON. . .

HOW DELIGHTFUL IS YOUR LOVE, MY SISTER, MY BRIDE! HOW MUCH MORE PLEASING IS YOUR LOVE THAN WINE, AND THE FRAGRANCE OF YOUR OINTMENT THAN ANY SPICE!. . .

THE FRAGRANCE OF YOUR GARMENTS IS LIKE THAT OF LEBANON. . .

YOUR PLANTS ARE AN ORCHARD OF POMEGRANATES WITH CHOICE FRUITS, WITH HENNA AND NARD, NARD AND SAFFRON, KANEH AND CINNAMON, WITH EVERY KIND OF INCENSE TREE.

SONG OF SONGS 4:8-14


In The Temple and the Lodge by Baigent and Leigh, the authors state that Solomon's 'Song of Songs' is a hymn and invocation to the Phoenician mother goddess Astarte. Astarte was known as "Queen of Heaven", "Star of the Sea" and "Stella Marris".
The authors show us that Astarte was conventionally worshiped on mountains and hilltops.




SOLOMON LOVED YAHWEH; HE FOLLOWED THE PRECEPTS OF DAVID HIS FATHER, EXCEPT THAT HE OFFERED SACRIFICE AND INCENSE ON THE HIGH PLACES.
I Kings 3:3.

WHEN SOLOMON GREW OLD HIS WIVES SWAYED HIS HEART TO OTHER GODS; AND HIS HEART WAS NOT WHOLLY WITH YAHWEH HIS GOD AS HIS FATHER DAVID'S HAD BEEN. SOLOMON BECAME A FOLLOWER OF ASTARTE, THE GODDESS OF THE SIDONIANS
I Kings 11:4-5


Solomon's practice of burning incense on high to the Queen of Heaven may have been a custom done in the same spirit as that of the Scythians, who burned cannabis in mountain caves and consecrated the act to their version of the Great Goddess, Tabiti-Hestia.
Archeological finds show that the worship of the old Canaanite gods was an integral part of the religion of the Hebrews, through to the very end of Hebrew monarchy. The worship of the Goddess played a much more important role in this popular religion than that of the gods.


but what do rasta say about that:

Among the Rastas, ganja is called by many names, such as *callie* and *Iley* which suggests the essence of the herb. Other names are "the herb," "the grass," "the weed," and so on. Sometimes called "the wisdom weed," it is said that the weed was first grown on the grave of King Solomon, the wisest man on the earth. When used in ritual contexts, the name became known as the "holy herb" as various scriptures are given as proof of its sanctity. The Rastafarians will say that God who created all things made the herb for human use and will cite Genesis 1:12 as their proof text:



And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And

* ...thou shalt eat the herb of the field (Genesis 3:18).

* ...eat every herb of the land (Exodus 10:12).

* Better is a dinner of herb where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith (Proverbs 15:17).

* He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man. ...(Psalm 104:14).

These biblical texts are only a few of the many used by the cultists in defense of their rituals.


if you are wondering why "the second appereance":

The first mention of kaneh-bosm in the Old Testament appears with the prophet-shaman Moses. At the beginning of his shamanic career, Moses discovered the angel of the Lord in flames of fire from within a bush.

It is later in his life however, that a definite reference to cannabis is made. Sula Benet explains this reference as follows:

The sacred character of hemp in biblical times is evident from Exodus 30:22-33, where Moses was instructed by God to anoint the meeting tent and all its furnishings with specially prepared oil, containing hemp.

Anointing set sacred things apart from secular. The anointment of sacred objects was an ancient tradition in Israel: holy oil was not to be used for secular purposes...

Above all, the anointing oil was used for the installation rites of all Hebrew kings and priests.




THEN THE LORD SAID TO MOSES, "TAKE THE FOLLOWING FINE SPICES: 500 SHEKELS OF LIQUID MYRRH, HALF AS MUCH OF FRAGRANT CINNAMON, 250 SHEKELS OF KANNABOSM, 500 SHEKELS OF CASSIA - ALL ACCORDING TO THE SANCTUARY SHEKEL - AND A HIND OF OLIVE OIL. MAKE THESE INTO MAKE THESE INTO A SACRED ANNOITING OIL, A FRAGRANT BLEND, THE WORK OF A PERFUMER. IT WILL BE THE SACRED ANNOITING OIL.

THEN USE IT TO ANOINT THE TENT OF THE MEETING, THE ARK OF THE TESTIMONY, THE TABLE AND ALL ITS ARTICLES, THE LAMPSTAND AND ITS ACCESSORIES, THE ALTAR OF INCENSE, THE ALTAR OF BURNT OFFERING AND ALL ITS UTENSILS, AND THE BASIN WITH ITS STAND. YOU SHALL CONSECRATE THEM SO THEY WILL BE MOST HOLY, AND WHATEVER TOUCHES THEM WILL BE HOLY.

ANOINT AARON AND HIS SONS AND CONSECRATE THEM SO THEY MAY SERVE ME AS PREISTS. SAY TO THE ISRAELITES, "THIS IS TO BE MY SACRED ANOINTING OIL FOR THE GENERATIONS TO COME. DO NOT POUR IT ON MEN'S BODIES AND DO NOT MAKE ANY OIL WITH THE SAME FORMULA. IT IS SACRED, AND YOU ARE TO CONSIDER IT SACRED. WHOEVER MAKES PERFUME LIKE IT AND WHOEVER PUTS IT ON ANYONE OTHER THAN A PREIST MUST BE CUT OFF FROM HIS PEOPLE."

EXODUS 30:22-33


more about cannabis in old testament here
more about templar knights and cannabis here



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 05:24 PM
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thank you so very much, I'll start reading now.

btw, I'm still looking for info on the location of Solomon's grave, and if ever it was found, etc, etc.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 01:32 AM
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no problem!

i like reggae music myself, so i know what do you mean, by "ganja was founded on solomon's grave".
no, actually i dont like reaggae.
i LOVE it!


anyway the location of solomons grave is kind of a mystery, but whoever finds that tomb, he will be extremly rich.
and i dont mean "rich of cannabis".

i will try to do some reasearch on the grave....

btw: sexy avatar you have, bollywood rude gal.


[edit on 11-1-2005 by Souljah]



posted on Jan, 15 2005 @ 07:26 PM
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a little background, and the burial site of solomon.

Solomon is David's second son by Bathsheba. His name means "peaceful," from the Hebrew "Shelomoh" ( in Arabic "Suleiman"). The name given by God to Solomon in the Bible is Jedidiah (meaning "loved by God"), and some scholars have conjectured that Solomon is a "king name" taken either when he assumed the throne or upon his death.

Solomon's case is one of the few in the Bible where the name given by God does not stay with the character. Solomon is probably born about 1035 BC (1 Chronicles 22:5; 29:1). His birth is considered a grace from God, after the death of the previous child between David and Bathsheba because of questions about the state of Bathsheba's marriage. (According to Jewish law, the custom was that a soldier sent to the front lines, such as Bathsheba's husband, would give his wife a retro-active "divorce" annuling their marriage were he to die or disappear, thus allowing the wife to remarry. This was a "loophole" that David and Bathsheba seem to have relied upon, and which has caused some to accuse them of "adultery" when in fact the legal status of Bathsheba's marriage was "suspended" and subject to question, according to the rabbinic commentators.) No basis for this apologia is found in the biblical account, where Uriah was not commanded to go to the front of the battle until after David had slept with Bathsheba.


His history is recorded in 1 Kings 1–11 and 2 Chr. 1–9. Solomon succeeded his father on the throne in early manhood, probably about sixteen or eighteen years of age. His father chose him as his successor, passing over the claims of his elder sons. His elevation to the throne took place before his father's death, and is hastened on mainly by Nathan and Bathsheba, in consequence of the rebellion of Adonijah.

During his long reign of 40 years the Hebrew monarchy gained its highest splendour. This period has well been called the "Augustan age" of the Jewish annals. In a single year he collected tribute amounting to 666 talents of gold, according to 1 Kings 10:13.

The first half of his reign was, however, by far the brighter and more prosperous; the latter half was clouded by the idolatries into which he fell, mainly, accordingh to the scribes, from his intermarriages. According to 1 Kings 11:3, he had 700 wives and 300 concubines. As soon as he had settled himself in his kingdom, and arranged the affairs of his extensive empire, he entered into an alliance with Egypt by a marriage with the daughter of Pharaoh.


He surrounded himself with all the luxuries and the external grandeur of an Eastern monarch, and his government prospered. He entered into an alliance with Hiram I, king of Tyre, who in many ways greatly assisted him in his numerous undertakings. For some years before his death David was engaged in the active work of collecting materials for building a temple in Jerusalem as a permanent abode for the Ark of the Covenant.

After the completion of the temple, Solomon erected many other buildings of importance in Jerusalem and in other parts of his kingdom. For the long space of thirteen years he was engaged in the erection of a royal palace on Ophel. Solomon also constructed great works for the purpose of securing a plentiful supply of water for the city, Millo (Septuagint, "Acra") for the defence of the city, and Tadmor in the wilderness as a commercial depot as well as a military outpost.

During his reign Israel enjoyed great commercial prosperity. Extensive traffic was carried on by land with Tyre and Egypt and Arabia, and by sea with Spain and South India and the coasts of Africa. The royal magnificence and splendour of Solomon's court are unrivaled. Solomon was known for his wisdom and proverbs. People came from far and near "to hear the wisdom of Solomon", including queen Makedah of Sheba, (identified with a country in Arabia Felix). Their son Menelik I, according to Ethipian tradition, would become the first emperor of Ethiopia. His thoughts are enshrined in storytelling, though probably, not all the clever thinking in the stories originates with the one man

Blamed for his decline and fall from his high estate were his polygamy and his great wealth, causing him to become decadent and involved in various forms of idol worship which are contrary to the religious law. Because of this idol worship, a prophet visits Solomon and tells him that after his death his kingdom would be split in two (Israel and Judah) and that his son, Rehoboam, would suffer because of his sin. He died, after a reign of forty years, and was buried in Jerusalem.


Solomon was said to know the language of the birds, an ancient tongue that could literally allow a person to speak with animals, and plants. He could also control spiritual beings, and use them to construct buildings and great wonders of engineering. His tomb would probably be a complex system of engineering, very difficult to enter.
The actual gravesite is lost to history, but the glory of Israel was buried with him, indicating massive wealth and treasure. I would figure his grave is Near the Dome of the Rock, or maybe the wailing wall, in that vincinity. Nobody is allowed to excavate that area, and it would be a logical place.



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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Please don't tell me you take the narrative literally? Solomoin buried in jerusalem when did you say? Where is that mentioned in scripture, what verse?

This is , IMO, a wonderful sermon from a well-intended soul but the holes in the story are big enough to drive a truck through.
First and foremost, for such a powerful King as solomon not to leave one scrap of physical evidence in his wake is just astonishing, don't you think?

Are there records of any neighboring king or potetate ever having met the man, signed a treaty, received a tax or entreaty? Do we find his name mentioned by Egyptians, Hittites, any local tribes or tribesmen? With so many wives wouldn;t there have been documentation somewhere of the living quarters..anecdotal accounts of the temple from insiders? Something?

Solomon is a story to be read by the numbers..and the dead give away is the number 11. Everytime batsheba is mentioned in the Bible it is in verse 11 of the chapter...
And of you do happen to be jewish, certainly you must be aware of exactly what I mean by pesher..yes? Or the idea behind kaballistic mysticism.that it is all in the numbers and that Torah is a code.

I post the link again for those who skipped it..if you think you know everything tio know about Solomoin, think again.

www.bbc.co.uk...


and again..oy veh!

-Sincerely
-Shai



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 03:23 PM
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thank you shai for the link, that is quite an interesting transcript, wish I had seen the show.
I believe there were other artifacts that were recently proven fakes.

There is so much to the Bible and these stories that were altered and lost, I sadly fear, we may never learn the truth, but it's still nice to form your opinions though.



posted on Jan, 22 2005 @ 02:50 PM
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If you people really want to find graves (or caves) of people from the old testaments first few books you must look toward the right country.
I must mention that Adam and Eve's gave is in Saudi-Arabia and jews and christian pilgrims visited it up until the first world war. But the arabs did not want the pilgrims in their land and so they closed their land for pilgrims.
And I must add that many place-names in the old books have not been found in today's Israel, and even those who is, is all at the wrong locations compared to each others and in the wrong landscape when one follows the description of the landscape in the bible.
Add to this that any archeologic findings older than 2500 years in todays Israel does not prove anything other than that there lived someone there.

So where can one look for the ancient Israel, David and Solomons Israel?
We can start with looking for the mountain Seir ( s'yr). It exist even today in th name Asir ('sr or 'syr) in Saudi Arabia.
Actually in this 200 by 600 km2 area we can find all the biblical place names, even those who does not exist in today's Israel. And the areas in Arabia fit the descriptions according to the old testament.
Let's first look at tribe-names;

christian name - biblical name - todays name

Manasseh - mnsh - Mansi (mns), Mansiyah (mnsyh) near Sabya, or Munshah (mnsh)
Ephraim - prym ('pr) - Firan (pr-'pr) or Wafrayn (wpryn (wpr)) at the Asir coast
Benjamin - bnymyn or bn ymyn meaning 'son of the south' - we have three towns, Yamna, Yamanah and Yamani, all ymn in Vest Arabia
Joseph - ywsp - Banu Yusuf (ysp)
Zebulun - zblwn - Zabbalah (zbl) from the mountains in the southern Asir
Issachar - ysskr - Shukarah (skr)
Asher - 'sr - Dhawi Shari (sr) or Wishr (wsr) in Jizan
Gad - gd - Jadi (gd) and Judan (gd)
Naphtali - nptly - Falatin (pltn)
Dan - dn - Duwaniyah and Danaywi (both dny) or Dandan (dndn)
Judah - yhwdh - several arabic tribes have this name today
Levi - lwy - Lu'ayy (l'y) or Buq'atal-Lawat (lwh)
Simeon - sm'wn - Sama'inah or Sama'in (sm'n)
Reuben - r'wbn - Rawabin (rwbn)

other names;
Egypt - msrym - Misramah (msrm) between Abha and Khamis Mushait
wich means the Isralites never was in Egypt but in this place in the Asir's heights.
pharaoh - pr'h - Far'a (pr') is a tribe in Wadi Bishah. It also was the name of an old Vest Arabic god in Misranah and Masr.
'Jordan at Jericho' - yrdn yrhw - 'the ridge of Warakh', Zahran hightland
'this Jordan' - h-yrdn - 'this hight (or hill)' (h-yrdn hzh)
'the fords of Jordan' - m'brwt h-yrdn (Judges 3:28, 12:5,6) - 'the defiles of the escarpment' There is no reference to Jordan in this text with other word
Cush - kws - Kuthah (kwt) an oasis near Khamis Mushait
Gerar - grr - Qararah (qrr)
Shibah/Beersheba - sb'h/sb' - Shaba'ah (sb'h/sb')
Abimelech - 'by mlk - Bani Malik (mlk)
Philistines - plstym - Falsah (plst)
Sodom - sdm - Wadi Damis (dms) north to two vulcans
Gomorrah - 'mrh - Ghamr (gmr)
Lasha - ls' - al-'Ashshah ('l-'s)
Sidon - sydn - Al Zaydan (zydn)
Gaza - 'zh - Al 'Azzah

Want to know where Eden is?
Eden's garden is a place; Junaynah (gnyn) while Eden itself is 'Adanah.
Junaynah - gnyn, diminutive of gn, cf. Hebrew gn, garden
Eden - 'dn - 'Adanah ('dn)
Pisjon - Shufan (spn)
Havila - Hawalah (hwlh)
Gihon - Wadi Bishah
Nubia - Kuthah (kwt)
Hiddekel - Wadi Tindaha
Assur - Bani Thawr (twr) (also called Al Abu Thawr)
Eufrat - Wadi Kharit
Ur - Waryah (wry)
Betel - Batilah (btl)
Ai - h-'y) - al-Ghayy (gy)
Negeb - (kkr) h-yrdn - al-Naqb (nqb)

David:
Bethlehem - bytlhm - David's hometown is today called Umm Lahm ('m lhm)
Jedaiah - yd'yh - tribe Wadi'ah (wd'h), Wadi Najran
Jerusalem - yrwslym - Al Sharim ('l srym) near Nimas or Arwa-Salam ('rw slm)
Samaria - smrwn - Shimran (smrn)
Helkathhazzurim - hlqt h-srym - are actually two towns; al-Halq (hlq) and al-Siram (srm)

other;
Beth-zur - byt swr meaning 'house' or 'temple' of swr - Al Zuhayr ('l zhyr)
Mesopotamia - nhrn - Naharin (nhrn)
bny ysr'l - 'Israel's people', or h-smrym (Shomerim) = 'those from Shimran'
h-smrwnym (Shomeronim), those from 'Samaria' (=Shimran)
'tree of life' - hyym - the village Al Hiyah ('l hy) in Wadi Bishah
'tree of knowledge' - d'h - Al Da'yah ('l d'y) west of Wadi Bishah
hdql - this can not be Tigris (h-dql). The name has survived in the village Al Jahdal (ghdl) and the river is today named Wadi Tindahah


Hebrew;
hebrew - 'bry - a man who lived in the woods. A woodsman.
Al al-Ghabaran ('l gbrn) 'God of the woods' is the same as 'lhy h-'brym 'God of the Hebrews'
Ur Kasdim - 'wr ksdym - is not 'Ur of the Chaldaeans', Mesopotamia, but Waryah (wry) in Wadi Adam
Haran - hrn - Khayran (hyrn) in Wadi Adam
Shechem - skm - al-Kashmah (ksm) in Rijal Alma
Bethel - byt'l - Batilah (btl) in Rijal Alma
Mamre -mmr' - Namirah (nmr), Qunfudhah hinterland
Hebron hbrwn - Khirban (hrbn)

The Assyrian king Sargon II conquered;
Sa-mi-ri-na (smrn) - al-Sarmayn (srmyn) (not Samaria)
Bit-Hu-um-ri-a (hmry) - Himrayah (hmry) (not 'house of Omri')
Mus-ku - msk - Musqu (msq)
As-du-du - 'sdd - al-Sudud (sdd)
Ia-ma-nu (ymn) in Ia-mu (ym) - this refer to the people in the south (the biblical 'Benjaminites') wich did not live in the sea (ym) but in the territory of Yam (ym) between Wadi Najran and the open desert.

- - - - - -

So if you really want to visit the old biblical places and graves you'll have to go into Saudi Arabia and start digging in those locations. All you have to get is pemission not only from the government, but from the local tribes as well. And THAT is tricky! But you can always look at the ruins that stick up out of the sand for free... except for the bribes you'll have to give in your travel there...
Of course this all means that christians and judes will never get access to the places nor find the real Temple (the one in todays Israel is only a sloppy copy of the orginal) or anything else wich otherwise would be held holy.



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 05:53 AM
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Now that is what I call a radical posting!
Having said that, i've heard these theories before, and have seen a documentary supposedly 'proving'the claims you repeat here.

Strange the Koran doesn't make a reference so clear as to verify a word of it.
You would think that it would be there for all to see and using the exact same words/location you mention..but alas that proves not to be so.

As for adam , since you mentioned, doesn't it say in Koran that Adam was created by allah using 'mingled'sperm..in other words is irtt not true in the Koran that we are c\given to believ that Adam was an artifically created hybrid..not out of clay but out of manipulated genetic material?

Now, who or what would have that technology all those thousands of years ago, eh?

So, although I enjoyed the read and do sincerely thank you for sharing this rather unique point of view..one I am not dismissing out of hand BTW...I would remind one and all that the holy texts are NOT to be taken literally but as starting points to understanding the hidden truths in its passages [for initiates and gnostics to find and meditate upon]

And one last thing...are you aware of any Solomonic relics being discovered in Saudi Arabia? With all that digging for oil in that country you'd think someone would have found something by now..if he was such a great and mnighty king.
As for things sticking up out of the desert..could you give a reference..please?
I'd find it most enlightening.

In the meantime let me give you something,more..um..concrete to study which should raise an eyebrow...

unitedisrael.org...

Thanls again for sharing

-Sincerely
-Shai



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 12:28 PM
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Hello Shai. The link you gave is to a tablet known to be a fraud, im not sure what the point was....anyway for the rest of your post, reference ;

Kings Chapter 11, verse 43 is the death and burial of Solomon, in the city of his father, David. ( Jerusalem).

The Jewish historian Eupolemus, who wrote about 157 BC, included copies of apocryphal letters exchanged between Solomon and the kings of Egypt and Tyre. There is evidence of King Solomon, but it is sparse.


The Torah is a code, but only someone having access to the Original versions could interpret them. In the 10th century hebrew underwent a conversion and scribes copying all works, including the Torah incorporated this "upgrade" to their copying.
In other words, if you dont have the originals, or at at least a copy existing prior to the 10th century, you have little to nothing of the original intention of anything coded into the Torah.



Worldwatchers original question;
Solomon's grave has not been found. it is said to be buried in Jerusalem. The Templar knights in the middle ages were reputed to have found great artifacts in the Temple Mount, but nobody truly knows as these was about 1000 years ago. I spent about 6 months exploring and researching Jerusalem around the Temple mount and Dome of the Rock, living with Arabs, Jews, Christian, etc. tremendous opportunity and highly recommend to anyone interested in middle eastern history. Nothing comes close to being there and talking with archeologists and anthropologists on site.

There are varying stories about Solomon, he could speak with animals and plants, trees and the clouds themselves. I guess your asking if he smoked pot to achieve this..? We cannot know.

If you want to research a really interesting aspect of plants and abilities, read about Mushrooms. ( Muscaria in particular).
This may be what your looking for.

Good Journey to you , worldwatcher.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 05:24 AM
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Dear Dan,

Could you please post the link exposing the mystery mountain paleo-hebrew markings to be a fraud..I would be most grateful.
As for the rest of your letyter...I lived in Israel for ten years, was married there and served in the armed forces and other organs of gov't..have spoke to many archeolgists as well as 'Torah' scholars..and yes it is all most fascinating.
Fascinating to know that our wailing or western wall is not at all connected to the fabled Temple.

As for the Templars..I know their history very very well and I'm sure if you did your research as claimed you will know all about Templars, cathars and scots Rite Freemasonry, as well as the charges levelled at them by the Church for being heretics who did not believe the Christ is God incarnate lie, and instead were beholden to more Egyptian ideas of things.
You wioll know all about the Holy Grail as well, no doubt..and so we seem to share common interests.

But again we go back to the incidences of markings found in locations across planet that are identical, we find 100's and hundreds of common words and symbols for shared concepts of deities and their powers..and we find them in places and dated to dates that are at odds with the commonly accepted theories.

There are place names in mexico that correspond to place names in the mesopotamian and Sub-continetal regions of asia..with local legends tying them together..and that speaks of navigational abillities and great seamanship..by the Phoenicians or an earlier and more advanced culture.
The aerial maps showing earth curvature are still a mystery.

Anyway..back to the original premise...no commonly accepted theory at present accounts for the incidences of shared symbols and meanings which our ancestors were familiar with.

Again, if you would be so kind as to debunk the mystery mountain stone I would be glad, as then I can cross it off my list of 'mysteries'.
And again I ask if you have an argument to clear up the mystery of the paramitee symbols..or even how ugaritic and proto-turkish ended up being so similar to nordic runes.

-Sincerely
-Shai
www.waterglyphs.org...
[just to amuse you further]



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 05:52 AM
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Dear Dan,

Went looking and looking to find the evidence that the las Lunas rock is a fraud but have yet to find one site which debunks it.

But I did find:
economics.sbs.ohio-state.edu...

And the killer site, as far as I'm concerned:
www.culdee.org...

Note the names of many scholars and institutions which have contributed their resources to trying to debunk the stone but have concluded it to be genuine.

I sent a picture to Bar Ilan University over 15 years ago asking if anyone there on staff could identify the writing and was told 'basically it's paleo-hebrew but there are some errors', Then when I told them where the stone was supposedly found they clammed up and never wrote back.

Again, would you be so kind as to provide your source material for dismissing this .

Sincerely
-Shai



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 09:43 PM
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Shai, hello. Are you referring to me as Dan..?

if so, the link (1st link) you gave is also the story of the fraud. Read the entire story, roughly halfway through the fraud is exposed. It was also the subject of a discovery channel episode, About "ancient" articles being frauds, especially religious ones as they bring the most money. It was pretty smart, but they got caught by using some hebrew that was not in use at that time the stone was supposed to have been carved.



As far as the symbols spread throughout the world;
There was ancient world wide trading system, ranging across the pacific from central and south america to Asia, in the Atlantic from Brazil to Africa, and then through the Asian and European land routes. it seems a Natural catastrophe upended the cultures that existed at that time, and the phoenician Culture seems to have been the inheritor of the seafaring routes and technologies. We have coc aine in egyptian mummies 5000 years old, tabacco and other plants that did not exist anywhere other than south america.

We have lost a lot of our own History, sadly.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 05:19 AM
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Originally posted by toolmaker

Shai, hello. Are you referring to me as Dan..?

if so, the link (1st link) you gave is also the story of the fraud. Read the entire story, roughly halfway through the fraud is exposed. It was also the subject of a discovery channel episode, About "ancient" articles being frauds, especially religious ones as they bring the most money. It was pretty smart, but they got caught by using some hebrew that was not in use at that time the stone was supposed to have been carved.



As far as the symbols spread throughout the world;
There was ancient world wide trading system, ranging across the pacific from central and south america to Asia, in the Atlantic from Brazil to Africa, and then through the Asian and European land routes. it seems a Natural catastrophe upended the cultures that existed at that time, and the phoenician Culture seems to have been the inheritor of the seafaring routes and technologies. We have coc aine in egyptian mummies 5000 years old, tabacco and other plants that did not exist anywhere other than south america.

We have lost a lot of our own History, sadly.


I went back and read my link for the third time and still can't find where the stone is exposed as a fraud...not one sentence about the genuiness of the dating or the inscriptions having been seen recorded and discussed well efore we know what we claim to know about paleo-hebrew, which every scholar quoted seems to think comprises 90% of the text.
All I saw dismissed were theories about who wrote it..not whether it was a genuine find ..and indeed, as I said, in my second link there are no scholars claiming fraud.Period..and look how many universities there are..not all of them religious.
Basically what you're repeating is what I got from bar ilan University...it is paleo-hebrew but the author[s] were not educated scribes, and may have substituted some local or familiar characters in to complete a text they only knew orally.

Did you ever watch the old [original] Star Trek? In one episode Kirk and Spock et al land on a planet that is exactly like earth..only an earth where WWIII had been fought and the Russians had won..but after a long, long, guerilla campaign the freedom fighters win and take over the capital...first thing they do is raise an american flag and start reciting the pledge of allegiance..but it is garbled..recognizable but garbled..because so much time had passed since it had been first handed down.
Now imagine what would happen if they had to write it down again?

I only use this as an example that shows how in principle one could account for the errors.
What is not addressed in anyone's attempt at rebutting the provenance or genuineness of this stone is who had the means, who had the opportunity and who had the motive to carve those symbols and let it age so that when first found the patina was the same as every other rock on that mountain?
Mormon's?
Who in the 1880's would have considered this a good use of time and energy and to what purpose?

If we wish to ascribe ulterior motives to the creators of the stone, the finders of the stone or the researchers of the stone, what would they be, do you think? Fame? Fortune?

Are we alleging a conspiracy of sorts which stretches back to the mid-1800's to perpetrate a hoax that still baffles us more than 100 years later?

In the 1880's we were still fighting a conventional war that pitted carbines against bows and arrows..I srael was a pipe dream and Herzl was just setting about reinventing hebrew..bringing it back from a dead language.
The Dead Sea Scrolls had not yet been discovered, nor had the copper scroll, one of our best examples of paleo-hebrew..so upon what source material would this fraud have been based?

If we can't answer these questions why should we be so quick to dismiss out of hand the authenticity of this stone and its markings?
Seems to me it's a question of bias; to believe this means I must disbelieve other things..things which relate directly to my status and my own story about the world I live in ..of what and who I want to believe..and why.

Again, please point me to the definitive site in which the hoaxers are exposed, confess... or the method by which the patina was shown to be applied [long enough for decades of grafitti to be chalked over it by passing lovers and backpackers],

lastly. if you are genuine in your belief that prehistoric trade routes existed which brought coc aine and tobacco to Egypt,[ one in which which i totally concur] and can posit the existence of a culture with far more sophistcated techology at hand than mainstream theories are willing to concede, then it would seem to me that you would have to allow for the probability that peoples from mediterranean cultures made it to N.America long before columbus,,bringing their own beliefs and symbols with them.
Maybe there us such a thing as the lost tribes of israel and maybe this is where one of them ended up.

Now, then, isn't that reason enough to accept, in all likelihood, that an artifact such as this should end up exactly where it did?

For the record..I am anything BUT religious, in the commonly accepted usage of the term and would ake no delight whatsoever in proving [dogmatic] Creationists right in their assumptions.


-Sincerely
-Shai



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 05:52 AM
link   

Originally posted by toolmaker

Shai, hello. Are you referring to me as Dan..?

if so, the link (1st link) you gave is also the story of the fraud. Read the entire story, roughly halfway through the fraud is exposed. It was also the subject of a discovery channel episode, About "ancient" articles being frauds, especially religious ones as they bring the most money. It was pretty smart, but they got caught by using some hebrew that was not in use at that time the stone was supposed to have been carved.



As far as the symbols spread throughout the world;
There was ancient world wide trading system, ranging across the pacific from central and south america to Asia, in the Atlantic from Brazil to Africa, and then through the Asian and European land routes. it seems a Natural catastrophe upended the cultures that existed at that time, and the phoenician Culture seems to have been the inheritor of the seafaring routes and technologies. We have coc aine in egyptian mummies 5000 years old, tabacco and other plants that did not exist anywhere other than south america.

We have lost a lot of our own History, sadly.


Dear Toolamker,

Once again I went in search of debunking sites that took aim at the Las Lunas Stone and here is the one that irked me the most:
www.ramtops.co.uk...

Posted below is a copy of my letter to the individual claiming to know the las Lunas Stone is a fraud and listing his reasons [which I find 'specious', to say the least]:


Dear Dweller,

Have just read your debunking of the las Lunas stone and found it laughbale.
Almost every point you make to back up your debunking is at odds with what is known to be FACT, and if I were you I would retract the debunking you've attempted on your site until your suppositions square with what is known tyo be true:
To wit..it is known to be true that Egyptians royals were familiar with coc aine and tobacco..traces have been found in mummies and depictions of both tobacco leaves and the snorting of coc aine abound in heiroglyphs.
Thus you're declaration that ancient seafarers would have had no way of reaching the new land becaue of bad maps is more an indication of cultural bias than applied scientific reasoning.

You would also have to discount the Olmec stones as frauds since they show the faces of caucasians and negroids yet the stones pre-date columbian times.

You would have to dismiss entirely the latest science proving Phoenicians were plying trade routes between EVERY major continent in ancient times, centuries before Christ, let alone Columbus.

And also you would have to ascribe motive, means and opportunity to fraudsters who went through all the trouble to make the carvings and then leave them undisturbed for decades in hopes some idito would find them and make a big deal [and maybe some big bucks] from his discovery.

Please be advised that a copy oi this letter to you will be filed in my notes, awaiting reply within 30 days..after which I will post its contents, with or without your reply on the appropriate forums for general discussion.

Links to back my assertions on request.

Wishing you a nice day
-Sincerely
Shai



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 08:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by worldwatcher
Now I've been searching all over the net and can't find anything referencing the location of King Solomon's grave, any description etc, except for some band of the same name.

You have to keep in minde that rastafariansim, or at least that sort of music, has nothing to do with ancient judeao-christian history. I suspect, in fact, that 'Jah', for example, is a conglomeration of islamic allah and christian jesus, since the rastafarians come from an area in africa originally that has both religions. The idea being that they incorporated much of both into their own culture when held in captivity.


Also, notice, reggae songs often sing about the struggle of the jews, awaiting the promised land, zion, the jewish captivity, the diaspora, and the evils of overbearing babylon. Its a way of talking about their own stuggles diaspora and enslavement without perhaps being obvious.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 09:09 AM
link   
Where's Allan Quartermain when you need him?



He found King Solomon's Mines, surely he can find his grave too!



[edit on 25-1-2005 by mpeake]



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 07:46 PM
link   
NARRATOR: This was a complete mystery. It seemed impossible for a patina from a temple built in Jerusalem to contain the fossils of sea creatures.

NARRATOR: Then came the most telling detail of all.

PROFESSOR YUVAL GOREN: When the letters are cleared, the inner part of the letter is exposed and as you can see here it is very freshly cut, you can see even the little lines, the little parallel lines of the chisel, or even maybe some drill, some electric bit or drill with which the letters were engraved, which is of course very unusual for ancient inscriptions.

NARRATOR: So he put it all together - the inscription had been recently carved. There were two different patinas. And the one on the front contained marine fossils - impossible if it had formed in Jerusalem. He concluded the patina on the front of the stone was artificial - a mixture to which gold and iron age charcoal had been added by hand.

PROFESSOR YUVAL GOREN: And therefore I believe that the stone, or not the stone of course, but the inscription is not genuine.

NARRATOR: Alarmed by what he'd found with the stone, Professor Goren turned his attention to the James Ossuary. Again he found a similar story - a freshly cut inscription with an artificial patina applied over the top.

NARRATOR: On the 18th of June 2003, the Israeli Authorities delivered their conclusion.

DR DAHARI: Good day to you, to all of us. The patina in the letters in both items is a modern forgery covering the letters.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Shai, the above is a Partial paste from the link you gave. The stone is a Forgery. A very good one yes, but a Forgery cleverly made that fooled a lot of people.



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 07:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by toolmaker
NARRATOR: This was a complete mystery. It seemed impossible for a patina from a temple built in Jerusalem to contain the fossils of sea creatures.

NARRATOR: Then came the most telling detail of all.

PROFESSOR YUVAL GOREN: When the letters are cleared, the inner part of the letter is exposed and as you can see here it is very freshly cut, you can see even the little lines, the little parallel lines of the chisel, or even maybe some drill, some electric bit or drill with which the letters were engraved, which is of course very unusual for ancient inscriptions.

NARRATOR: So he put it all together - the inscription had been recently carved. There were two different patinas. And the one on the front contained marine fossils - impossible if it had formed in Jerusalem. He concluded the patina on the front of the stone was artificial - a mixture to which gold and iron age charcoal had been added by hand.

PROFESSOR YUVAL GOREN: And therefore I believe that the stone, or not the stone of course, but the inscription is not genuine.

NARRATOR: Alarmed by what he'd found with the stone, Professor Goren turned his attention to the James Ossuary. Again he found a similar story - a freshly cut inscription with an artificial patina applied over the top.

NARRATOR: On the 18th of June 2003, the Israeli Authorities delivered their conclusion.

DR DAHARI: Good day to you, to all of us. The patina in the letters in both items is a modern forgery covering the letters.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Shai, the above is a Partial paste from the link you gave. The stone is a Forgery. A very good one yes, but a Forgery cleverly made that fooled a lot of people.



Toolamker...partial post is hardly the word...the word I'd use is selective..but again you miss the point. The stone was forged in order to give credence to a myth. The stone is a forgery, no doubt..and so we are back to the myth again. here's the quote you missed, be it intentional or otherwise, and from the same article:
PROFESSOR VICTOR HUROWITZ: According to the biblical story, the Temple in Jerusalem lasted from the time of Solomon in the 10th century until it was destroyed in 586 BCE by the armies of King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon.

NARRATOR: And that has been the source of the mystery ever since. For even though the Bible describes Solomon as the grandest of the Old Testament kings with a mighty empire, no trace of him, his empire or his temple has survived.

NARRATOR: The bible said Solomon's Temple stood on the temple mount, in the heart of Jerusalem. Today one of Islam's holiest mosques stands there. At its edge is the Western Wall, where Jews from around the world come to offer their prayers. But this wall was never part of the Temple of Solomon. It was actually built almost a thousand years after Solomon. With this lack of evidence, some archaeologists began to doubt much of the Solomon story.

PROFESSOR FINKELSTEIN: There are a few pottery shells from the 10th century on the ground, a wall here and there maybe, but nothing monumental. We are left with no archaeological evidence for the great kingdom of Solomon. We are left only with the text, and the text was put in writing relatively late"

Do you get it now...?
Sure do hope so..

-Sincerely
-shai



posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 12:55 PM
link   
Well Shai, im not sure what your point is or where your going with this.

1) You posted the link, which detailed the fraud of the stone tablet itself. I could post the entire link, but its too long. The posts i detailed are enough to provide proof you stated did not exist.
The tablet is a fraud, period. Your own Link proves that. it was a clever fraud that fooled a lot of people, period.

2)The stone was forged to sell to a museum. criminals are not interested in creating or substantiating a Myth. they exist to make money playing on peoples ignorance or greed. Criminals could care less about lending credance to a Myth. they wanted to sell that stone for millions and almost succeeded.




Anyway, worldwatcher asked about using drugs to induce higher perceptions. What i have found in research is that many many ancient peoples used herbs, mushrooms, hallucinigens to communicate with their Gods.

worldwatcher, there are fascinating histories for this, especially with the Muscaria mushrooms. There are Christmas cards with Santa riding down mushroom caps, alice in wonderland, etc, there is a lot of background graphics in western culture that depict the Muscaria mushroom that really makes no sense, until the history of that plant is researched.
when you start looking for it, there is a ton of pictures with this mushroom in cultures the world over. fascinating subject.





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