Originally posted by toolmaker
Shai, hello. Are you referring to me as Dan..?
if so, the link (1st link) you gave is also the story of the fraud. Read the entire story, roughly halfway through the fraud is exposed. It was
also the subject of a discovery channel episode, About "ancient" articles being frauds, especially religious ones as they bring the most money. It
was pretty smart, but they got caught by using some hebrew that was not in use at that time the stone was supposed to have been carved.
As far as the symbols spread throughout the world;
There was ancient world wide trading system, ranging across the pacific from central and south america to Asia, in the Atlantic from Brazil to
Africa, and then through the Asian and European land routes. it seems a Natural catastrophe upended the cultures that existed at that time, and the
phoenician Culture seems to have been the inheritor of the seafaring routes and technologies. We have coc aine in egyptian mummies 5000 years
old, tabacco and other plants that did not exist anywhere other than south america.
We have lost a lot of our own History, sadly.
I went back and read my link for the third time and still can't find where the stone is exposed as a fraud...not one sentence about the genuiness of
the dating or the inscriptions having been seen recorded and discussed well efore we know what we claim to know about paleo-hebrew, which every
scholar quoted seems to think comprises 90% of the text.
All I saw dismissed were theories about who wrote it..not whether it was a genuine find ..and indeed, as I said, in my second link there are no
scholars claiming fraud.Period..and look how many universities there are..not all of them religious.
Basically what you're repeating is what I got from bar ilan University...it is paleo-hebrew but the author[s] were not educated scribes, and may have
substituted some local or familiar characters in to complete a text they only knew orally.
Did you ever watch the old [original] Star Trek? In one episode Kirk and Spock et al land on a planet that is exactly like earth..only an earth where
WWIII had been fought and the Russians had won..but after a long, long, guerilla campaign the freedom fighters win and take over the capital...first
thing they do is raise an american flag and start reciting the pledge of allegiance..but it is garbled..recognizable but garbled..because so much time
had passed since it had been first handed down.
Now imagine what would happen if they had to write it down again?
I only use this as an example that shows how in principle one could account for the errors.
What is not addressed in anyone's attempt at rebutting the provenance or genuineness of this stone is who had the means, who had the opportunity and
who had the motive to carve those symbols and let it age so that when first found the patina was the same as every other rock on that mountain?
Who in the 1880's would have considered this a good use of time and energy and to what purpose?
If we wish to ascribe ulterior motives to the creators of the stone, the finders of the stone or the researchers of the stone, what would they be, do
you think? Fame? Fortune?
Are we alleging a conspiracy of sorts which stretches back to the mid-1800's to perpetrate a hoax that still baffles us more than 100 years later?
In the 1880's we were still fighting a conventional war that pitted carbines against bows and arrows..I srael was a pipe dream and Herzl was just
setting about reinventing hebrew..bringing it back from a dead language.
The Dead Sea Scrolls had not yet been discovered, nor had the copper scroll, one of our best examples of paleo-hebrew..so upon what source material
would this fraud have been based?
If we can't answer these questions why should we be so quick to dismiss out of hand the authenticity of this stone and its markings?
Seems to me it's a question of bias; to believe this means I must disbelieve other things..things which relate directly to my status and my own story
about the world I live in ..of what and who I want to believe..and why.
Again, please point me to the definitive site in which the hoaxers are exposed, confess... or the method by which the patina was shown to be applied
[long enough for decades of grafitti to be chalked over it by passing lovers and backpackers],
lastly. if you are genuine in your belief that prehistoric trade routes existed which brought coc aine and tobacco to Egypt,[ one in which which
i totally concur] and can posit the existence of a culture with far more sophistcated techology at hand than mainstream theories are willing to
concede, then it would seem to me that you would have to allow for the probability that peoples from mediterranean cultures made it to N.America long
before columbus,,bringing their own beliefs and symbols with them.
Maybe there us such a thing as the lost tribes of israel and maybe this is where one of them ended up.
Now, then, isn't that reason enough to accept, in all likelihood, that an artifact such as this should end up exactly where it did?
For the record..I am anything BUT religious, in the commonly accepted usage of the term and would ake no delight whatsoever in proving [dogmatic]
Creationists right in their assumptions.