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A Video Explaination on how Many Atheists Here on ATS View Religion

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posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 06:41 PM
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originally posted by: Willingly
No, there is no such thing as "general thought itself", Gost147. There is only thought....as such.


Yes, that's what I was referring to.


originally posted by: Willingly
Opposing any kind of religion, as some sort of atheist, is not a sign of intelligence.


I don't think anyone is arguing that it is. In fact, the totality of this thread derives from the concept that intelligence isn't a factor in belief of religion (or lack there of)


originally posted by: Willingly
Here is what I have to say, regarding your stance: There are no atheists, acutally.


Feel free to elaborate


originally posted by: Willingly
There are only those who think they are.


I lack a belief in god, therefor I am an Atheist. Is this inaccurate?


originally posted by: Willingly
Anti-theists are more into what I'm driving at, because they do know, mostly by having had painfull experiences with fake religions, what spiritual crap is all about. And they deny it properly, if they have the skills to do so.


You don't need to be anti-theist to be anti-religion. To be a theist is to believe in god, you don't need a religion to achieve that.

I am certainly anti-religion, however.


originally posted by: Willingly
"God loves atheists most." Although there is no god. Okay? Know what I'm driving at?


No, I have no idea what you're trying to depict here. Please elaborate
edit on 24/2/16 by Ghost147 because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 09:40 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

yes you provided answer from your current knowledge which ARE just other opinions, where I provided answer with my current experiance from just being.

That is the main difference. Until you cannot stopped thinking for a five minutes and meditate you probably never will experiance what all others do during meditation. Thinking is the problem. If there are no thoughts, there is no imagination, there is only being.

Until then, from one loony to another : )
have fun and learn and try new things.

And yes opinions is not evidence. But do you have evidence that you are thinking - Other than your awareness? Everything is just an opinion. Thoughts. Your thoughts just like empirical evidence more, due to your programing from your past experiences. But you don't seem to get that.

It is not about swaying mind, another mis translation. it is about BEING.
it is about experiance BEING and until you won't trust yourself and meditate it will be hard to understand "the other side of you".

If you think there is nothing more to meditation than you are ignorant to the utmost degree due to science. There is more to the world than science can say at the moment, ghost are a good indicator, yet you deny exploring yourSelf and still lean on science. I thought you want "to know" the truth? The truth is in being not in information!

and in being you can have as many experiences repeatable as you want it to have, it is not as spontaneous thing as one might think. There are plethora of meditation techniques which can bring you results or to certain other states of consciousness, other than waking state you enjoy so much now, that you are addicted to it by OWN thoughts and others opinions, yet totally ignoring OWN being.

I will just leave that here for every Atheist or materialists to read : )
www.livescience.com...

this is coming from science, materialism is ending...well I hope, it is getting late : )

thanks for answering my questions and have fun with the thread.
edit on 1456372448254February542542916 by UniFinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 09:51 PM
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originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
And yes opinions is not evidence. But do you have evidence that you are thinking - Other than your awareness?


Yes, that is what neurological brain scans do.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
Everything is just an opinion. Thoughts.


No, there are in fact, facts. An opinion is baseless, facts are not. If I say 2+2=4, I can back up that claim through calculation which you too can confirm. If I say "I don't believe 2+2 = 4, but rather, I believe it = 7" and provide nothing to back it up, then it's an opinion, and in this case a flawed one at that.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
Your thoughts just like empirical evidence more, due to your programing from your past experiences. But you don't seem to get that.


No, it's you that doesn't seem to understand what Objective reasoning and observation is.

We can in fact confirm things outside of our own minds through objective means, and it is far more valid and accurate that our subjective perception. But, you seem to reject that reality.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
It is not about swaying mind, another mis translation. it is about BEING.


Your record is skipping.

Evidence or it means nothing.



posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 09:58 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

read the link I added, but you will probably find another random number of counter arguments...look, all that you want to know can be experienced in deep meditation. Science will soon catch up with that.

I cannot prove to you that, you will have to jump in the water yourself.
That is the only trick, "the devil" or ego is holding you back.

You seem so open to existence of ghost and not to the deeper levels of your own being, other than normal waking state, just due to lack of empirical evidence or so called "facts" which science says are true about your BEING.

Pity.
edit on 1456373874217February172172916 by UniFinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 10:15 PM
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originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147

read the link I added, but you will probably find another random number of counter arguments...look, all that you want to know can be experienced in deep meditation. Science will soon catch up with that.


It would help if you give your interpretation of what the article means to you, as I see nothing wrong with it or intrusive to the concepts I've explained here.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
all that you want to know can be experienced in deep meditation. Science will soon catch up with that.
I cannot prove to you that, you will have to jump in the water yourself.
That is the only trick, "the devil" or ego is holding you back.


The only thing holding me back is the fact that you're not presenting evidence. I never once rejected that what you said is wrong, you for some reason continue to believe I have. The only thing preventing me from doing what random-internet-person is telling me to do is the total lack of reason to do it. Opinion is not reason.



originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
You seem so open to existence of ghost and not to the deeper levels of your own being, other than normal waking state.


Feel free to quote where I said "you're wrong" to your concept and claims.

I'm not presenting any argument at all. All I'm saying is that you give me absolutely no reason to spend time doing what you claim and achieving something you claim because you just say "well you have to do it to see it".

Religious people say the same thing "You have to first believe in order for it to be made apparent".

The thing is, it has nothing to do with me needing to believe you're correct in order for me to do what you suggest, the only thing preventing me from doing it is your continued lack of evidence.

Not only that, but you haven't even explained anything that you mean. You just keep saying "you'll discover your SELF", as if that means anything.

You explain nothing, you are excessively generic with your terminology when referencing the concept you're trying to instill in me, you haven't presented evidence, you haven't even gone into detail on your position without being outstandingly vague.

And then you act as if I'm being unreasonable by rejecting your suggestion to spend time and energy attempting to do something you haven't really presented yet?

Do you not see the issues here?



posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 10:38 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

you got me there, you really have not said I am wrong, only that I am a possible loony.... but that implies a lot you know? : )

But hey, I don't mind. I know how I sound from your prospective and I am surprised at your willingness to debate, that is why I like you a lot.

But look if you are curious. Really curious. Than just please give meditation a try for a month or two, half an hour a day, every day, it is free and even relaxing and has many other benefits, also It will not hurt you in any way, but it could potentially give you a platform to grow a lot with your understanding of reality instead of using just external evidence from science.
What have you got to lose and what can you gain? Ask yourself that.

But As for now there is no evidence in science unfortunately. That is why one if wise, should use BOTH - own experiance and external information from scientists AND real past saints to inspect their own being and reality. But it takes a lot of balls to do that. You must throw away ALL your concepts and expectations and be "totally naked" in beingness, in not knowing, in silence, without expectation.

It is far from easy to do that and that is why people are avoiding meditation in my opinion.

But I like to use ALL available tools internal and external, and some like to limit them to only external, that is just a choice we make.




Not only that, but you haven't even explained anything that you mean. You just keep saying "you'll discover your SELF", as if that means anything.


you are making an assumption, that senses are the only things from which you can learn and get information. They are not, that is only what science says. You don't realize that about yourself yet. It has nothing to do with beliefs, religion or science. One has just to go give it a try and jump in the water.

There is no other way.
edit on 1456376399259February592592916 by UniFinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 11:31 PM
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originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
you got me there, you really have not said I am wrong, only that I am a possible loony.... but that implies a lot you know?


Everyone on the internet is a possible loon, it was not meant to be a personal attack, but rather that a person should always present caution when accepting any advice from a person on the internet, especially one who cannot currently present any evidence.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
What have you got to lose and what can you gain? Ask yourself that.


Lose: Time and energy.
Gain: You haven't explained that yet.

Again, this sales pitch is identical to that a religious person uses. "Well you can't win the lottery if you don't play"


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
But As for now there is no evidence in science unfortunately.


There are actually a plethora of benefits that Meditation can give a person that are entirely backed by science.

I in no way deny that Meditation can relieve stress, lower blood pressure, lower the chance of heart attacks, so on and so forth.

However, you seem to be implying that there is this other form of reality that you can achieve through meditation, if I understand you correctly. That, is something that is not evident in any study.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
That is why one if wise, should use BOTH - own experiance and external information from scientists AND real past saints to inspect their own being and reality.


No. That is not a wise thing at all, because subjective observation means nothing without an external source to confirm the experience.

For instance, let's say whatever you're saying is factual, and you perceive to tap into your own 'self' and so forth. Now, what distinguishes that conclusion to your experience with say any other conclusion you can come up with.

How do you know you haven't actually tapped into an alternative universe and have momentarily glimpsed at your doppelganger in that universe and their experiences?

How do you know you haven't induced a self-made hallucination because you activated or deactivated a certain neurological process?

How do you know that what you're actually experiencing is The Matrix and you've just momentarily stepped out of the projected holographic computer program inserted into your mind to be a compliant battery for self-building machines in the true reality?

If you can't confirm what you are experiencing from external factors, then you can't confirm anything.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
You must throw away ALL your concepts and expectations and be "totally naked" in beingness, in not knowing, in silence, without expectation.


I swear a Scientologist said the exact same thing to me the other day.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
you are making an assumption, that senses are the only things from which you can learn and get information. They are not, that is only what science says. You don't realize that about yourself yet. It has nothing to do with beliefs, religion or science. One has just to go give it a try and jump in the water.

There is no other way.


To do what! You still aren't explaining anything.



posted on Feb, 25 2016 @ 12:36 AM
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a reply to: Ghost147

Well what would you like to do?
Why is there a need to do anything at all?

Most people want love, mental serenity, peace, inner content, etc... at all times and that comes with correct understanding of oneself and not with material or other external toys we so like to distract ourselves with.

so ... you can do anything, but without correct understanding it is all in vain. So with meditation we learn how to BE. If we learn that, than you will know what to DO.

Yes there is a deeper reality. But it is not within or without, these are just concepts, just another confusion. And everything you know is just "a concept" - imagination - something stored somewhere in the mind. And everything I know is also just that. All knowing is just that.

But the main point is that no one can show you this. It is something which must be learned and realized by oneSelf. So practice and effort to just BE is the key. It is a natural process, we are forgetting that we are also one with nature or universe and we never were anything else!

Nature is where we are from at first and what is natural for natural human?
thoughts/senses or being/awareness?

Imagine you would be the first human in existence from birth. the ONLY one.
How would you think without thoughts, how would you feel without any identification or labeling of the feelings, how would you BE and what would you do?

that is the art of being and that is the point of meditation in my opinion.

Thank you for all your efforts it was a good experiance for me. But I will stop posting here now. I have said too much already, as the point is realized in the pure silence anyway. it is so simple. To simple to be real, but it is.

You can try it or you can keep thinking and discussing about the ridiculous claims religious people are making?
...hah what did you say about losing time and energy ?
...is that productive and worth your energy?

...your choice!

: )



posted on Feb, 25 2016 @ 01:51 AM
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originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
Well what would you like to do?


Survive


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
Why is there a need to do anything at all?


To survive


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
so ... you can do anything, but without correct understanding it is all in vain. So with meditation we learn how to BE. If we learn that, than you will know what to DO.


Replace 'Meditation' with 'Scientology' and your sales pitch is the same.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
But the main point is that no one can show you this. It is something which must be learned and realized by oneSelf. So practice and effort to just BE is the key. It is a natural process, we are forgetting that we are also one with nature or universe and we never were anything else!


And why do you assume I am so distraught, Ignorant, and broken without your personal perspective and actions?

Without your power I am unfulfilled. Without your actions I cannot reach my full potential. Without your beliefs I am powerless to achieve what I cannot without them.

Again, you explain nothing, you use vague terminology, you go into no detail, you simply state I am broken until I follow your way.

This is not a convincing sales pitch.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
Nature is where we are from at first and what is natural for natural human?
thoughts/senses or being/awareness?


More vague terms.

Is a fox "being". Does an Elephant express "awareness".

Assume I know absolutely nothing of what your talking about. Assume I don't understand the concept behind your own personalized definition of words. Assume you are speaking in another language. So why aren't you trying to teach me in mine?


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
Imagine you would be the first human in existence from birth. the ONLY one.


This has never happened, nor could it ever happen. Speciation through Evolution functions at a population based level, not an individualistic one.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
How would you think without thoughts, how would you feel without any identification or labeling of the feelings, how would you BE and what would you do?


This hypothetical scenario is ridiculous. If a thing just popped into being they would be totally displaced from everything, yet complex enough to be an organism consisting primarily of other organisms, also of which have no relation what so ever to anything else in the universe. It is impossible to state what this thing would "be", do, or anything else.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
that is the art of being and that is the point of meditation in my opinion.


You've taught me nothing. Your logic makes no sense. Your hypothetical situation is so impossible that the reasons behind it being hypothetical cannot be formed into conclusions. You've explained nothing yet assumed I would come to the same answer you did as if it's obvious.

Your sales pitch is failing.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
I have said too much already, as the point is realized in the pure silence anyway.


Uh, no, no point was realized at all. You've elaborated on nothing and just keep using the same meaningless terms over and over again as if the more you state it the more it means something.

You've explained nothing, you've convinced me only that the concepts you hold are so illogical and deluded that you yourself can't even explain them without parroting whatever it is you read that influenced you into believing this is true.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
You can try it or you can keep thinking and discussing about the ridiculous claims religious people are making?
...hah what did you say about losing time and energy ?
...is that productive and worth your energy?

...your choice!


In my 8 years here on ATS, I have had hundreds of chances to discuss religion with various members. To my knowledge, perhaps 5% of which actually were convinced through my explanations that the concepts they originally held were in fact false.

So, why bother if 95% of the people don't change their mind?

It's because the people who actively make outlandish claims about science or Atheism or that their religion is the most superior and true are usually so deluded by their faith that they couldn't be convinced the sky is blue if their religious texts said otherwise.

However, the audience and the lurkers that very rarely speak, or perhaps aren't even members, they see the conversations at hand, and their views may not be so black and white. Perhaps they were raised in a religion but they don't necessarily believe it as solidly as the people I discuss with do. Perhaps they were fed the same misinformation from a pastor, or a parent, or a teacher, or the preacher who makes hundreds of thousands of dollars off of anti-science videos and seminars and these people haven't even heard the other side before.

Those are the people I'm trying to convince, and the more people argue their position, the more ridiculous their position is exposed to be.

I have been thanked by onlookers who have never said a word in the topic before, yet read all 17+ pages. I have seen people make an account just to respond to the topics at hand. These people are the people I attempt to reach. And the level of which they respond positively is outstanding.

There was a fantastic debate posted a while ago here on ATS that was based on if the Catholic church was a force of good in the world. The debaters were cardinals, preachers, scientists, and other figureheads. The audience was asked to caste a vote before hand what their opinion of the topic was, before the debate began. The majority of the several hundred people in the audience said "YES" the catholic church is a force of good, something like 55% or 60% believed so. Once the debate was over, something like 85% of people now said "NO".

The religious debaters will never change their position. But the audience will.

By the way, I noticed you didn't answer my question within my last post on how you can tell what you're witnessing is what your conclusion is, rather than some other random description?



posted on Feb, 25 2016 @ 03:06 AM
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a reply to: Ghost147

you are missing my point it seems. I am not selling or buying, just observing and reporting!

I am not trying to change your mind (it seems fine to me : ) ) and get you to change belief system. That will not get you anywhere. Just another fantasy and imagination. I wish for everyone curious about the real nature of reality, like you seem to be - to experiance a new state - different from dreaming, waking or deep sleep and learn from there.

anything else is ALL just thinking in waking state...I am trying to tell you that experiance happen while you are not dreaming, sleeping, sensing or thinking anything - yet "you" are "conscious" in "meditation" - similar like in waking state, but it is not waking state, it is a state you have not experienced consciously yet....probably.

You are asking me how can I be sure and if it is not an illusion. Well, this is just like me asking you how do you know if you are really awake? Why do you not question your waking state also and why do you think this state is the one true state if you have not experienced other state of your "consciousness"?

I am saying that waking state is an illusion, illusion made by senses and your mind. Well it is not entirely false! ... but not the whole truth either. But a small part of the whole picture of our Self.

What is our pure essence?
Know "IT", than BE it.
This essence is in ALL gods, animals, ghosts, plants, planets, there is nothing outside this essence. The source and also the final goal of all true religions and spiritual teachings. All Self realized masters are in agreement with this. You choose to ignore their opinion, I choose to take it into consideration and try experiencing "it/SELF" and learn from direct source.

Sorry but I will not argue point by point separately like you like to do. It takes to much time and I am working right now : ) Also I don't care about your situation and do not judge in any way. You just opened a thread and I am posting my opinions and views relating to it, that is all.

I wish for every being to be happy and loved. And we are each free to do what we want. Free will and all that...So do what you want, there are no rules...but there are consequences. So whatever you do, just don't hurt any beings and all should be well : )

Also I should be clearer. I don't care about anyones beliefs, religion, gods, life situation...this are all besides the point, all "imagination". The point is what is experienced in pure silence, without any expectation and imagination and senses. Another layer of reality. Of yourSelf.

But you must understand that spirituality and religion is a mix of opposing concepts, metaphors, contradictions....and in a lot of cases there is a valid reason for it and after right understanding they can make a lot of sense after awhile, that is why thing should be vague, they have meanings in more ways than one. Real nature of reality is so wired that it cannot be explained in plain words - words/thoughts are a big part of the problem and in the way.

The truth is hidden in plain sight, that is why it is so hard to realize it.

Also I am not some guru or any kind of master, I am just stating my opinions from current understanding and experiences after few wired years of mingling with mySelf in pure silence, but it is an honest opinion if that counts for anything. I am also perfectly fine to say, that I may be wrong and possibly delusional : )

We'll see, sooner or later or ... when we will die.

OK I just wanted to clear a few things up, I hope I did that with this post, so I can leave this thread in peace and sorry if I have caused it to go off the track too much.
edit on 1456392977236February362362916 by UniFinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2016 @ 04:09 AM
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originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
You are asking me how can I be sure and if it is not an illusion. Well, this is just like me asking you how do you know if you are really awake?


THAT'S MY POINT! Subjectively, we have absolutely no idea. You're actually using my argument and the entire concept I've been trying to explain to you without even knowing it.

Subjectively, we have no real way of telling if we are conscious or what we're experiencing is really actually occurring. That's why Objective Observation is required to prove things more accurately.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
I am saying that waking state is an illusion, illusion made by senses and your mind. Well it is not entirely false! ... but not the whole truth either. But a small part of the whole picture of our Self.


A massive claim without any substance.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
What is our pure essence?
Know "IT", than BE it.
This essence is in ALL gods, animals, ghosts, plants, planets, there is nothing outside this essence. The source and also the final goal of all true religions and spiritual teachings. All Self realized masters are in agreement with this. You choose to ignore their opinion, I choose to take it into consideration and try experiencing "it/SELF" and learn from direct source.


I don't ignore any opinions, but I will certainly question the validity of their claims if they present it as fact without evidence.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: [post=20413015]Ghost147[/post
Also I should be clearer. I don't care about anyones beliefs, religion, gods, life situation...this are all besides the point, all "imagination". The point is what is experienced in pure silence, without any expectation and imagination and senses. Another layer of reality. Of yourSelf.


And entirely unverifiable outside of personal experience, unfortunately, yet also excessively valuable to those who claim it to be truth (and also entirely illogical).


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
But you must understand that spirituality and religion is a mix of opposing concepts, metaphors, contradictions


Yes, I've already explained that in previous posts here in this topic (not sure if it was directed towards you or not)


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
The truth is hidden in plain sight, that is why it is so hard to realize it.


And unable to be validated by anything, apparently.



posted on Feb, 25 2016 @ 05:46 AM
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a reply to: Ghost147

hehe, damn I must respond, you have written a good post after all. But I will take the liberty of ignoring your separated issues and try to explain them with a more simple explanation due to the lack of time on my part.

Firstly:
YES, This can only be validated by your OWN experience, that is the way it is. Therefor complete trust in yourself (not beliefs, concepts or thoughts!) is of most importance in meditation. To learn this is the first step in my opinion.

Secondly:
You can "wake up" during meditation in a similar way, like waking up from a dream in the morning. So if we assume this is true, than you probably see now, why there is no need for external validations or evidence? it is perfectly self evident after all - like waking up from a dream is. You don't doubt yourself in this case - likewise you would not in meditation when you start to wake up and have different experiences of Self - outside of waking, dreaming, deep sleep state, but still "you".

...Until final and permanent Self realization dawns.

Link to wiki for basic info from Indian angle of this "state of being":
en.wikipedia.org...

I hope this way it is easier to comprehend what is true meditation about in my opinion and I may be even wrong as stated before. It is a natural learning process, every true meditation is and - I am still work in progress : )
edit on 1456400866247February472472916 by UniFinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2016 @ 11:28 AM
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originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
Firstly:
YES, This can only be validated by your OWN experience, that is the way it is.


The totality of this argument surrounds the idea that subjective observation is not an accurate form of determining factual events.

If you have no possible way to confirm that what you're experiencing isn't anything then what you've speculated it to be, then your conclusion is no more valid than a schizophrenic's claim that their hallucinations are in fact real.

The "separated issues" that you continue to readily and audibly state to ignore isn't a separate issue at all. The ONLY thing we are talking about is how you can be sure that what you're seeing is real or not.

Subjective observation is not a tool in which can be used to determine that.

Objective observation can determine that.

If you cannot objectively confirm your conclusions, then it is grossly irresponsible to claim them as factual.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
Therefor complete trust in yourself (not beliefs, concepts or thoughts!) is of most importance in meditation. To learn this is the first step in my opinion.


If that is the most important thing, then all you're doing is setting yourself up to rejecting reality and being susceptible to the belief that what you're experiencing is real, no matter what. That level of blind faith is excessively dangerous.

Lets say, for instance, that what you claim is real, and many people are really experiencing whatever it is you have yet to go into detail on without the use of excessively vague terminology. Now, lets say you are actually schizophrenic, yet haven't been clinically diagnosed with the personality disorder as of yet. Do you not see how dangerous it is for someone to just blindly 'completely and blindly trust in the event's that are happening without questioning if it is real or not'? I would hope so, but you keep actively ignoring this important issue.

The fact is, if your only source of validating what is occurring and concluding it's some kind of spiritual event is through your mind and your mind alone, then you have absolutely no way in confirm that the event actually took place at all objectively.


originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Ghost147
I hope this way it is easier to comprehend what is true meditation about in my opinion


No, it still makes absolutely no sense at all and you have yet to explain the terminology you continue to use, despite their totally empty, meaningless dispositions without an explanation. Terms like "BE", "SELF", "AWARENESS", "IT". You use them in a way that they are supposed to have some profound impact within the sentence they are in, yet without any explanation on what kind of impact they are having. Thus they are all entirely interchangeable terms because you're so vague with their use that they could mean absolutely anything. They are used to make the sentence feel super mystical, yet also serve to kill any and all meaning behind the sentence.

As I said before, if you're going to try to explain something to someone, don't do it in a foreign language.



posted on Feb, 25 2016 @ 11:20 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

What I am trying to explain to you is like trying to explain color blue to the blind man : )

heh so yeah it is hard explaining in foreign language this things, heck even in my own it is difficult. But it is a good practice as I can refine my skills and thoughts by speaking about this stuff. So I am thankful for this.

Some people will understand better than you and some will not, that is how it is supposed to be...one people will pick more references than you did, others will probably even pick less. Stuff has a vague meaning for a reason, which you don't understand due to the lack of comprehension of the terms you pointed out and others... and also I lack the skills to communicate properly at the moment.

Anyway during meditation many things can be felt, heard, envisioned and yes, it is true - many things are only a product of our fears or emotional issues. But when you clear all of that the real meditation can really begin. And this can be a long process for some to get to that point as it has to do with our EGO and if ego is present, yes, we are swimming in our own imagination as you say. And here a lot of people get into various traps due to expectations...

People are practicing for years or their whole life with meditation to get on the "next level". This stuff takes time and a lot of effort. To get to the pure silence of the mind and get purity of the heart.

Also another thing - there should be no effort, no expectation and no thoughts during true meditation and when this is slowly achieved, the illusion of the mind and body connection starts to unveil and the truth is revealed the more you practice, the more you can naturally relax.

Some people who are not practicing meditation are having a problem understanding this part of meditation. Than no amount of explanations will do you good. It is best to just jump in the water and see it for yourself how it will be for you...but that will probably never happen in such case. Pity.

It is about non effort, non thought ... being totally natural and relaxed in pure silence and pure emotions. That seems like doing nothing, and it is - but only from the context of body and mind, but are you just body and mind? In my experiance we are far more than that and people who meditates are having similar experiences...for 1000 of years, all over the world. I think it is ignorant to ignore that and say we are sick or just playing with illusions. It is the opposite in my opinion. it is one of the hardest challenges one can decide to do in life. To better yourself and advance every day, even if just for a bit. But it may be hard to look in a mirror and fix the bad parts we recognize. Majority of people don't want to bother with meditation becouse of that...



Clear and simple, this is one of the purist buddhist lineages in my opinion, that is why I posted it here. I should do that from the start. Some will agree some will not, but this is one of the ways to the truth of your true Self. It explains the various stages one will encounter during this process and how to deal with them. From my experiance this is a good insight into this whole natural process if one decides to know oneSelf.

if you meditate for Self realization, you don't gain anything!
we are dropping the false concepts we have accepted as the truth.
we are dropping our mind and body connection,
we are dropping ALL doubts and fears,
There is nothing to gain, I am NOT a thing.

... maybe it will make sense to someone : )
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posted on Feb, 25 2016 @ 11:59 PM
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a reply to: UniFinity

You mistake my rejection of your particular original claims to that of all meditation. I find meditation interesting, and in many ways beneficial.

What I do not understand is your terminology alone.

You use "BE", "SELF", "AWARENESS" as if they are something super mystical. Can you explain what you mean by those terms?

Also, I have already seen that video before
edit on 26/2/16 by Ghost147 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2016 @ 05:12 AM
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a reply to: Ghost147

oh I see, yes, you are right, I made that assumption. Sorry about that!

Well the problem about such terms, that they are abstract and without any method of sensing them somehow in our default waking state, there is a problem of defining them. So until some experiences we are just swimming in water without any direction. That is why ALL experiance is important in a way, at least it gives way to new possibilities or potential which can be implied from it.

But there is nothing mystical or grand about terms for me. Just another label we use for describing different parts of US / reality. All other crap is on us individually - crap which we think belongs together with it. Almost the same could be said for experiences.

If we assume ALL is one and that is the truth - than there is no lower and higher, right or wrong. Mystical or not. Spiritual or normal. Even gods and humans... Basically, for me this means two things:
- life is about learning
- no coincidences

So my advice would be to create your own image of what they mean and not listen to me or others but listen to your intuition and develop from there. If you are really curious about real nature, than read, meditate, contemplate and learn from experiance and from information. Create your own opinions and develop them further as you learn and experiance new things.

You see a bit of a problem with us in general is, that we like to be told how something is, instead of using our own efforts to get understanding. We often like to be a bit lazy bums : )
But we are unique, ALL of us, different life, people, experiences, opinion - and even simple words such as the mind can have different meaning to you or me and it probably does. So we have to use our own words and terms we are comfortable with to describe something abstract as a soul, Self, awareness, ego, god, etc...

For instance: if we would get 10 persons to describe the same tree, we would probably end up with 10 different descriptions, similar in some ways and different in others...and if there was than a painter, which would paint a tree from each description separately, he would get 10 different treas.
Now imagine if we would ask 10 people about souls, gods, etc...or imagine if it would really help if I give you the description of the tree I see?

So if you want to get to real answers and not the "trees" (...or crap : ) ) I or others say on the ATS, books, internet. then you must get to them with your own effort combined with reading, contemplation and practice which is best fitted for you and you can figure that by feeling or intuition and not give up until you are satisfied.

But I am sure that at the real end of the path (final Self realization) we would get to the same answers to questions and meanings. At least true saints from different religions learned so, but again they say this with their own words and metaphors, which they used in their time and religion.

if All is one is true as true saints, gurus,yogis,sufis, etc... learned, we can conclude: if you know yourSelf you will understand all other things. And that is all we need to do, they say.

hehe but that my as well be another ridiculous claim....until some experiance happens that changes the general view of reality in us and we start to open up to other possibilities. Like in your case for instance happened probably with ghosts experiences...or in my case, experiences during meditation, trips, dreams, etc...

And also, I don't claim I know anything special and I am no one special. Just a guy who likes to meditate and read and contemplate about this stuff from many sources like science, spirituality, philosophy, religion. So I am a bit like a happy fool guided by "gut feeling". don't listen to me and don't believe my words, but just open the mind - to all possibilities and not just what science has proved for now, but rather to a possibility that there is a hidden, undiscovered potential which is already in us. Whatever that may be.

if we assume this to be true, than next logical questions would be for me:
Do you want to bring it out?
I do.
Do you know where or what is the limit?
I don't.

the only thing for sure for me is that I know that I don't know.
And that is a good start and realization to have in my opinion.

Such a long post and with no direct answers, I am sorry if this post seems like a waste. But I try my best not to put any specific ideas into other heads, specially the abstract ones you wander about...I wish just to open up a person for a bit - to the possibility of hidden potential.

: )
edit on 1456571883218February182182916 by UniFinity because: (no reason given)







 
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