A Video Explaination on how Many Atheists Here on ATS View Religion

I stumbled upon this very well written and visualized explanation on how many atheists view religion, and I feel it is necessary to spread the expression for educational purposes. The concept within the short video goes beyond religion, but any personally held belief or truth. We could very well expand this analysis to general thought itself.

The video goes into depth on how something like the concept of religion develops, and how it can be passed on, instilled, and indoctrinated, as well as how difficult it is for someone who does follow a religion to ever eventually reject it; something many atheists here on ATS have gone through.

The main focus is the argument that "Intelligent people believe in God", which is certainly, and undoubtedly, true.



I hope the video was enlightening. Let me know what you feel about it

a reply to: Ghost147

Watch it again and instead of substituting "religion" as the ridiculous claim, substitute "government" as the ridiculous claim.

It's frightening how similar the 2 controlling institutions are - both in their history, death count and subjugation & brainwashing of the masses.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Ghost147

Watch it again and instead of substituting "religion" as the ridiculous claim, substitute "government" as the ridiculous claim.

It's frightening how similar the 2 controlling institutions are - both in their history, death count and subjugation & brainwashing of the masses.

Yup, the same could be said about many things with varying degrees of implication. The Government is certainly one of them.

Predictably, the video fails to address the role of direct spiritual experience in the confirmation of one's faith, portraying believers as simpletons believing what they do as mere products of their cultural environment.

As if what actually happens in life doesn't matter--it's all about what people have told you.

That is a ridiculous claim.

originally posted by: NthOther
Predictably, the video fails to address the role of direct spiritual experience in the confirmation of one's faith, portraying believers as simpletons believing what they do as mere products of their cultural environment.

As if what actually happens in life doesn't matter--it's all about what people have told you.

That is a ridiculous claim.

It would be more convincing if only all these direct spiritual experience lead to a single confirming answer, rather than the alleged confirmation of every single religion.

Muslims claim to have experiences that confirm their beliefs
Christians claim to have experiences that confirm their beliefs
Hindus claim to have experiences that confirm their beliefs
Scientologists claim to have experiences that confirm their beliefs
Schizophrenics claim to have experiences that confirm their beliefs

They cannot possibly all be true, because that invalidates everything within each of their respective conceptualization of what makes reality, reality.

Fine and dandy as all of them seek peace in life and all of them come from the same root of animism. Though many try to separate themselves and us being animals in the name of classism that argues the need for rulers instead of equals.

Isn't it said all are equal in the eyes of god? Ghandi once said: An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

Best to walk as many as possible as each is a puzzle piece containing part of the whole, but then focusing on the one practice that brings results in moving one forward, not stagnate nor backwards. In doing so the I am free of ego, bias, and delusions shows up...

Call that force God? and well like sand through the fingers slips ones grasp and prevents further attainment when already filled clinging to dirt found on the path.

a reply to: NthOther

exactly, thank you for sayin that!

this is the main problem with religions in my opinion.
Everyone wants to be friends with god but rarely someone invest the time to get actual personal experiance?
Does god need us or do we need him to be without suffering?

Almost everyone wants to be lead by a hand (or a book : )) like children or see a miracle or something to open their eyes or to have faith.

Grow up and stop waiting.
Start to meditate and be patient - train your mind to enjoy pure silence.

it was NEVER about CLAIMS but real personal experiance.
Thoughts and language is our silly way of communicating, guess what way god's are using?
Try to imagine how we communicated when we were babies, still without language?
This is the way to truth but few will really understand what that really implies.

not christian, muslim, buddhist, hinduist, etc...only the TRUTH.
..but in all religions there are lessons to be learned and are useful to get to the TRUTH.

IMHO

I can see the atheists point and agree that some religions have ideas in them that are logically flawed created by humans.

So the ideas might be divinely inspired but that do not mean the ideas are the objective truth (that in real time knows all including all subjective views). From the objective truth point of view the ideas would be flawed idols.

I claim that spirituality have it's own science and some souls know from experience more than others, since they have had their own meeting with the divine. An atheist who is a true seeker of truth will be easy to teach since that atheist only need a bit of information/experience to get it.

A person who are so subjectively invested in a subjective view thru faith will not listen to anyone including the divine if they try to make a connection and will instead of looking at an experience objectively color it, so it is proof of the current subjective viewpoint. The subjectively invested has chosen to remain ignorant instead of aware.

This subjective views pushing towards ignorance instead of objective awareness exist in all humans including me. So for a more aware soul I will look flawed in my views but that should not stop me from trying to remove as many subjective views flaws as I can.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Isn't it said all are equal in the eyes of god? Ghandi once said: An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

I would say we have equal potential but that do not mean every soul give out the same fruits.

There are some souls that I have meet that are not very aware on a spiritual level that give out better fruits than me. They clearly deserve the fruits of their labor as I deserve the fruits of mine be it a bit smaller.

I really dislike that "eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" since it does not take into account a souls awareness. If a soul is aware that if it blinds another soul it will be blinded also, then a soul will choose to not blind other souls as a survival instinct and become very careful of not harming others. There is a reason why empaths who can feel other peoples pain become very careful of others quickly.

originally posted by: NthOther
Predictably, the video fails to address the role of direct spiritual experience in the confirmation of one's faith, portraying believers as simpletons believing what they do as mere products of their cultural environment.

As if what actually happens in life doesn't matter--it's all about what people have told you.

That is a ridiculous claim.

Many or possibly most people I doubt have such an experience though. They are what's being described in the video and probably make up the majority. For them it's a thing of habit or tradition.

Anyone with some kind of personal experience like you're talking about have an additional reason for their belief. However it's of a strictly personal nature that may or may not have similarity to some other personal experience had by another. Since we all have our own personal experiences throughout our lives that makes them all only relevant to the person having it. Which is fine as long as everyone remembers that they are only significant to that person however and should not and will not have any meaning for anyone else because they haven't experienced it.

This is not how it works most of the time though. Instead we tend to try and force our personal truths on everyone else resulting in a variety of outcomes. But regardless of the outcome the truth will only ever be what one experiences for themselves. As it should be.

Another question is what does truth and faith have to do with each other if anything at all??

They should have made an atheist side video. It would have been shorter.

Religious types believe that atheists have nothing better to do all day, than think about how they don't believe in one f the many gods.
In fact nobody thinks about anything, especially not gods. We just live, having a spare space in our brains where usually all the god stuff is in a believer.

Is like saying bind people think all day about seeing and act against it. They don't. Their lives are just normal to them, they don't think about something that they don't have.

My parents din't instill atheism in me. My mum sometimes tried to bring the good lord into stuff [she wasn't religious much but did believe in some kind of being], yet from the earliest days in my life I didn't believe.
It never made sense to me, even as a kid and I thought it was like a fairy tale you tell your kids to make them behave [which it turned out to be].

I'd love to see a video where the feeling is described when something seems really crazy to you but serious people believe it.
I always bring up 'Santa' but it is even worse than that. I don't just 'disbelieve', I have no part of my brain that has god in it.
In all seriousness, when I hear people kill each other or just quote bible verses, it is as strange to me as if adults would suddenly believe in Santa and do all the bad things bin his name, it would be ridiculous


It amazes me, and to be honest I don't take believers seriously because of that. There are good people amongst them but to me they are totally weird because they believe in the biblical god, ignoring all the many contradictions.

Now let me make clear that I don't have the same feelings towards spiritual people. People who believe that there may be something out there but they can't explain it. This ties in with personal experiences etc. Because it seems still on the rational side, as there is no direct claim made [it's god or allah or whomever] and I can go with that.

I think it's the arrogance of saying they 'know' god exists as described in the bible or koran when there are so many illogical claims and contradictions.

Sounds like evolution is the ridiculous claim to me

originally posted by: NthOther
Predictably, the video fails to address the role of direct spiritual experience in the confirmation of one's faith, portraying believers as simpletons believing what they do as mere products of their cultural environment.

As if what actually happens in life doesn't matter--it's all about what people have told you.

That is a ridiculous claim.

The video adresses that just fine. You were brought up to believe in a particular god, right? Even though there are many concepts of god to believe in, i'm willing to bet that your personal experience was based around the god that you were brought up to believe in.

Funny how christians never experience allah or vishnu. It's always christ. So when you have a "religious" experience, (which is just a state of consciousness) your brain fills in the holes with the predetermined expectations based on the ridiculous claim you were raised to expect to be true.

Very good video, Ghost. Thanks. Sublimecraft makes an excellent point as well.

originally posted by: NthOther
Predictably, the video fails to address the role of direct spiritual experience in the confirmation of one's faith,

Anyone's "direct spiritual experience" is not truth. If it were truth, we'd all have such experiences. It's personal experience that is generated in the mind of the person. It's a "feeling", a "notion", a desire. I had lots of "spiritual experiences" relating to God and Jesus in the 30 years that I was a Christian. I've had "spiritual experiences" since I gave up religion and any belief in a deity. I call myself a spiritual atheist. But I know these experiences don't prove anything to be Truth.

Of course, when the entire culture is steeped in the "ridiculous claim", many of their "spiritual experiences" will be similar, but as Ghost points out, each person's religion (culture) determines the flavor of their "spiritual experiences". I seriously doubt that Muhammad or virgins in heaven play a roles in Christians' spiritual experiences.

But we all have personal experiences, some spiritual, some not. But these experiences don't prove to be True. They're just personal experiences. People who have them are more likely to BELIEVE they're true. But Belief and Truth are two different things.

originally posted by: Hecate666
Religious types believe that atheists have nothing better to do all day, than think about how they don't believe in one f the many gods..... Now let me make clear that I don't have the same feelings towards spiritual people. People who believe that there may be something out there but they can't explain it. This ties in with personal experiences etc. Because it seems still on the rational side, as there is no direct claim made [it's god or allah or whomever] and I can go with that.

This is a great comment -- all of it, not just what I excerpted. Very thoughtful and well expressed. There is a very big difference between the "religious" and the "spiritual."

In my experience (and I know that's limited), the most spiritual people I know are those who know there is "something," but also know they cannot "know" all the whys and wherefores and do not claim to know. More often than not, they have had experiences which they cannot explain or understand in terms of conventional wisdom, but they know it was real. They understand we are all works in progress so to speak, and make no absolute claims -- for themselves, or others, or even the Heavens. They are seekers, usually familiar with many religions and philosophies, always looking for truth and wisdom, and often finding it in the most unexpected places and/or situations. They may or may not identify with a particular religion; but even if they do, their faith is very personal, based on personal experience and knowledge... and they understand that everyone must find their own answers based on their own experience and knowledge.

Where we might disagree is that I see atheists in much the same way as I see religious folks -- so sure they and they alone have all the answers... that they and they alone know the truth, the whole truth, and nuttin' but the truth... and they either try to force their "truths" on others, or simply judge and condemn those who don't see their "truth" for the end-all be-all that is is. The atheist is a little bit scarier to me though, because the atheist believes they are the highest power so to speak (much less higher principles), that they know what cannot be known, that their way is the only way... in other words, they believe in the "Church of Me" and do not even acknowledge that they may be wrong, but would force their beliefs on others.

Right here on ATS, I have seen too many threads to count all intended to belittle, mock, ridicule and otherwise attack those of faith. I have never seen one thread by a religious person intended to belittle, mock, ridicule and otherwise attack those of no faith. There may have been and I just missed them somehow, but even then the former will far outnumber the latter. Even threads discussing religious or Biblical concept are derailed by those who want to mock the "flying spaghetti monster" or some such nonsense.

In the final analysis, the only thing any of us can know for sure is that we do not and cannot know the whole truth -- and probably never will.

a reply to: Ghost147

Nice video, but MAN was that guy annoying the way he enunciated his words.

originally posted by: NthOther
Predictably, the video fails to address the role of direct spiritual experience in the confirmation of one's faith, portraying believers as simpletons believing what they do as mere products of their cultural environment.

As if what actually happens in life doesn't matter--it's all about what people have told you.

That is a ridiculous claim.

You're right, the video did forget to address how personal confirmation bias can reinforce ridiculous claims.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: Hecate666
Religious types believe that atheists have nothing better to do all day, than think about how they don't believe in one f the many gods..... Now let me make clear that I don't have the same feelings towards spiritual people. People who believe that there may be something out there but they can't explain it. This ties in with personal experiences etc. Because it seems still on the rational side, as there is no direct claim made [it's god or allah or whomever] and I can go with that.

This is a great comment -- all of it, not just what I excerpted. Very thoughtful and well expressed. There is a very big difference between the "religious" and the "spiritual."

In my experience (and I know that's limited), the most spiritual people I know are those who know there is "something," but also know they cannot "know" all the whys and wherefores and do not claim to know. More often than not, they have had experiences which they cannot explain or understand in terms of conventional wisdom, but they know it was real. They understand we are all works in progress so to speak, and make no absolute claims -- for themselves, or others, or even the Heavens. They are seekers, usually familiar with many religions and philosophies, always looking for truth and wisdom, and often finding it in the most unexpected places and/or situations. They may or may not identify with a particular religion; but even if they do, their faith is very personal, based on personal experience and knowledge... and they understand that everyone must find their own answers based on their own experience and knowledge.

Where we might disagree is that I see atheists in much the same way as I see religious folks -- so sure they and they alone have all the answers... that they and they alone know the truth, the whole truth, and nuttin' but the truth... and they either try to force their "truths" on others, or simply judge and condemn those who don't see their "truth" for the end-all be-all that is is. The atheist is a little bit scarier to me though, because the atheist believes they are the highest power so to speak (much less higher principles), that they know what cannot be known, that their way is the only way... in other words, they believe in the "Church of Me" and do not even acknowledge that they may be wrong, but would force their beliefs on others.

Right here on ATS, I have seen too many threads to count all intended to belittle, mock, ridicule and otherwise attack those of faith. I have never seen one thread by a religious person intended to belittle, mock, ridicule and otherwise attack those of no faith. There may have been and I just missed them somehow, but even then the former will far outnumber the latter. Even threads discussing religious or Biblical concept are derailed by those who want to mock the "flying spaghetti monster" or some such nonsense.

In the final analysis, the only thing any of us can know for sure is that we do not and cannot know the whole truth -- and probably never will.

But the atheist position offers no answers. It simply does not support the claims of believers that deities exist. We want proof for those claims because the claims are not supported by actual evidence. Any position beyond that is not an "atheists" position.

You seem to be conflating the positions of various scientific fields of study for the atheist position. Evolution is not the atheist position, it is a scientific theory.

The religious position only relies on personal experience which cannot and has never been verified. Your personal feelings cannot be used as evidence, just like schizophrenics cannot be taken seriously because they have the same amount of evidence for their positions. It's far beyond the time where claims must be verifieable or simply left behind.

Can religious people verify their claims? That is the whole point. They could knock the "atheist" position right on it's ass. Just verify your claims, and we will not have an argument left.


The big question is, why do you still hold a position which cannot be verified? We may never know the whole truth but we can abstain from accepting claims which cannot be verified.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Watch it again and instead of substituting "religion" as the ridiculous claim, substitute "government" as the ridiculous claim. It's frightening how similar the 2 controlling institutions are - both in their history, death count and subjugation & brainwashing of the masses.

Agreed!

Both walk together, hand in hand in la-la-land: Fake religon and its theologians and politicians, who better dress like race-car-drivers, so we all can know who "sponsored" them.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

The big question is, why do you still hold a position which cannot be verified? We may never know the whole truth but we can abstain from accepting claims which cannot be verified.

We accept claims we can't verify for ourselves all the time. In fact, most of what we consider "indisputable fact", is actually just claims made by other people that are then repeated over and over before being "canonized" in textbooks. We are trusting the authorities on the matter to tell us the truth, because we have no way of knowing for ourselves.

Take geology, for instance. The only honest science instructor I had in college prefaced the introduction to his class by stating that all theories regarding the inner workings of our planet (if it really is a "planet"--again, something we've been told but have no way of independently verifying) were just that--theories. No one has ever been to the core of the earth, observed it, measured it, etc.

I was shocked to hear a science professor open his class by offering up the possibility that his field of study could quite possibly be total bulls#. It's never happened since, of course, but it was refreshing at the time.

You defer "truth" to the specialists every day of your life. You just think that your specialists are better than other peoples'.

Which, at that point, starts to sound like... religion.