It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Myth of the Benevolent Left

page: 9
78
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 11:55 AM
link   

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gryphon66

Which strawmen would that be? Because I'm thinking you're not quite sure what a straw man is, and I'm laughing at your expense.


1. Pull up your intial posts on your computer screen.

2. With your finger, tap on the screen.

3. Voila!

You decided to add ad hominem early on this time.

Laugh away; this is utter fraud as any sort of serious argument and certainly not worth our usual further tete-a-tete*.

Good day; enjoy your ersatz stars and adulating cronyism.

*not in private, per se, just as ridiculous.
edit on 23-2-2016 by Gryphon66 because: Noted




posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 12:02 PM
link   
a reply to: Gryphon66

Utter fraud that you cannot refute. And I should be ashamed? So what makes my posts a village or straw-men? How is my posts jingoistic—another word you use but likely do not know what it means?

Sophistry.



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 12:07 PM
link   

originally posted by: DeadAgain
The leftist establishment preys on those who are emotional and compassionate to achieve their totalitarian goals.


Emotional and compassionate...just not very bright, or they'd know that themselves.

Or democratic, or they'd respect what the majority want (whether they happen to concur or not).



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 12:15 PM
link   
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I agree 100%. It is voluntary, therefor more moral. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I hate coercion.



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 12:19 PM
link   

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Bluesma


Personally, having lived in great poverty, I think it is absurd to even suggest that anyone embrace poverty as noble. Have you ever gone hungry? Had to go to bed at night without having eaten that day, either as a child, or as a parent, listening to the whimpering of your hungry child??

No, I don't feel an equal amount of compassion for a rich person- who is not hungry, is not cold.


Except for the child part, yes I've been poor, homeless, without food. Now I'm sitting pretty by the sweat of my own brow, no handouts, and not still stuck to the state IV. What now?

Jesus, Buddha, Socrates, Diogenes, Nietzsche—all absurd men.

"He who possesses little, is little possessed."




The State is me, my loved ones, my neighbors.... I see no problem with being attached and intertwined with them.
That's "what now". I help others get where I am too.

Someone above this wrote above,




Promoting that government do something instead of actually doing something is an abdication of responsibility.


We ARE the government and the ones doing something if we vote so! I am paying money into such actions, which is going into funding them, or paying those that do them. I may even take one of the jobs created by such efforts myself (actually I did work in the public sector for the last 2 and half years). Many of my neighbors and friends work for the government, and I am paying their salary. Why speak of the government doing it as if it is an entity disconnected from yourself?



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 12:24 PM
link   
a reply to: Bluesma

Because it is disconnected.

journals.cambridge.org...



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 12:31 PM
link   

originally posted by: TheBandit795
a reply to: Bluesma

Because it is disconnected.

journals.cambridge.org...


If you are working for the government, you are connected.
If your family member, friend or neighbor is working for the government, you are connected.
If you are paying taxes into it, you are connected.
If you are held to it's laws, you are connected.
You are part of it.
edit on 23-2-2016 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 12:40 PM
link   
a reply to: Bluesma

I think that's a cop-out. "If you're connected to the government then you are helping" is an excuse for not doing it yourself.

I'm "connected" to soldiers. But I didn't storm a beach at Normandy nor would I ever take credit for it.



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 12:43 PM
link   
a reply to: LesMisanthrope



Well it’s a fallacy to appeal to authority as you have done repeatedly.


Do you understand what an appeal to authority fallacy is? To whom's authority have I appealed to in order to prove a point?

Asking for sources to validate your claims is not an appeal to authority. Actually, it's quite absurd and laughable in trying to even suggest my inquisition was an appeal to authority.



Have you read the book?


Of course not, and you know that. You deliberately linked to a book in hopes to either shut-down the discussion or proclaim my ignorance on the matter because I have not had time to purchase and read the book.

Again, very disingenuous.



I'm curious because you've asked for authorities on the subject—"substance" as you call it


An inquiry in to substance is not an appeal to authority. You really don't know what an appeal to authority is, do you?



and now that I've presented some it took no more than 15-20mins for a detailed response. Perhaps you can tell me his conclusion and why you think it is wrong.


I did not say his conclusions were wrong. What I am saying is that your interpretation of it may be wrong.



Yes it is a stereotype. I wrong one I might add, which is what I’ve been arguing the whole time.


No you have not. You own OP is a treasure trove of stereotyping and contradicts the very sources you gave me as how you came to such conclusions. In that information, in which I quoted earlier, it states that there are very little differences between the Left and Right when it comes to actual morality and giving, except when you inject religion.

Tithing is not charity. Tithing is the giving of money to the church because the Bible says to do so.

Or a better way to put it is it is the raising of money through "invoking the name of god" fallacy.



Any more straw men?


How was that a straw man? My comments were derived from the sources you provided?

Or is this similar to the "appeal to authority" bit in which you have no clue what you are talking about?



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 01:10 PM
link   
a reply to: ketsuko

I had to have at least a 3.0 GPA to get accepted. I don't consider that "just anyone".



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 01:28 PM
link   
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

"we put your money where our mouth is." Fixed it for you. Why don't you feed wild animals? If you come back and say, "people are not wild animals," then you're a clown.



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 01:30 PM
link   
a reply to: Bluesma

Aw, that's adorable. Kinda the same way everyone gets a trophy for playing soccer as a kid?



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 01:32 PM
link   

originally posted by: Bluesma

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Bluesma


Personally, having lived in great poverty, I think it is absurd to even suggest that anyone embrace poverty as noble. Have you ever gone hungry? Had to go to bed at night without having eaten that day, either as a child, or as a parent, listening to the whimpering of your hungry child??

No, I don't feel an equal amount of compassion for a rich person- who is not hungry, is not cold.


Except for the child part, yes I've been poor, homeless, without food. Now I'm sitting pretty by the sweat of my own brow, no handouts, and not still stuck to the state IV. What now?

Jesus, Buddha, Socrates, Diogenes, Nietzsche—all absurd men.

"He who possesses little, is little possessed."




The State is me, my loved ones, my neighbors.... I see no problem with being attached and intertwined with them.
That's "what now". I help others get where I am too.

Someone above this wrote above,




Promoting that government do something instead of actually doing something is an abdication of responsibility.


We ARE the government and the ones doing something if we vote so! I am paying money into such actions, which is going into funding them, or paying those that do them. I may even take one of the jobs created by such efforts myself (actually I did work in the public sector for the last 2 and half years). Many of my neighbors and friends work for the government, and I am paying their salary. Why speak of the government doing it as if it is an entity disconnected from yourself?


I think a common mistake is anthropomorphizing the state. Contrary to popular belief, the state is not a conscious entity, it's neither a beautiful woman nor a virile man and it is certainly not you.

Are you willing to accept personal responsibility for the acts of the state and its agents that are contrary to your ethos? How could the state have performed those actions if not by your direction and with your express permission?

Can you claim personal responsibility for the acts of the state which do conform to your moral compass?

We are not the government, we never have been and we never will be. (thank jeebus)

As was alluded to earlier, those of us who have made an effort to help out our family, friends, neighbors and strangers are not wrong in recognizing that we cannot individually save the world. That's why other individuals making an effort is necessary, pass it on.

The best help we can give another human being is to employ them to achieve an end that eases the felt discomfort of some negative circumstance for the greatest number of others. It's not charity but, it is the best method to raise the standard of living for the most people.

This economic solution is overlooked for a variety of reasons, none of which are accidental. The free market itself is the best mechanism for the uplifting of the greatest proportion of the human race.

So, by all means, continue to be charitable and encourage others to do so but, please don't offload conscious human empathy onto a cold dysfunctional and malignant bureaucracy and expect better results than voluntary interpersonal cooperation and assistance.
edit on 23-2-2016 by greencmp because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 01:40 PM
link   
a reply to: introvert

You’re absolutely right, introvert. You did not appeal to authority and I humbly admit I was wrong to say you did. Accept my apology for that poor form. I lay prostrate before the gods of rhetoric, embarrassed, begging for forgiveness.

Let’s start again. Which claim specifically do you require more evidence for? And I will be more accommodating.



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 01:41 PM
link   
a reply to: Bluesma


The State is me, my loved ones, my neighbors.... I see no problem with being attached and intertwined with them.
That's "what now". I help others get where I am too.


If you and your loved ones and your neighbors are the state, then so is the rich, the criminal, Kanye West, and the corrupt. Intertwine with them all you want, but sooner or later, your money goes to them, and not your loved ones and your neighbour.

You being helpful or charitable to your family, loved ones, your community, is the best you can do for the whole. Expecting the government to take care of that isn’t. They have no stake, allegiance or loyalty to your community or loved ones, whom they see only as numbers.


We ARE the government and the ones doing something if we vote so! I am paying money into such actions, which is going into funding them, or paying those that do them. I may even take one of the jobs created by such efforts myself (actually I did work in the public sector for the last 2 and half years). Many of my neighbors and friends work for the government, and I am paying their salary. Why speak of the government doing it as if it is an entity disconnected from yourself?


You are paying money into the government without a clue where it goes. For all you know you could have payed for weapons, for a false imprisonment, for corruption, for torture, for the lawyer of a rapist.

Why don’t you actually pay someone’s salary instead of pretending you do? Maybe employ others? Maybe give it to someone who visibly needs it? Try actually funding people—sponsor or mentor them—instead of pretending you do.



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 01:51 PM
link   
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Just thought of something that might put things in perspective.

Would tweeting about a protest be the same as actually going out and marching?



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 01:54 PM
link   

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Just thought of something that might put things in perspective.

Would tweeting about a protest be the same as actually going out and marching?



As long as the appropriate emoticons are deployed.



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 01:56 PM
link   

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Just thought of something that might put things in perspective.

Would tweeting about a protest be the same as actually going out and marching?



As long as the appropriate emoticons are deployed.


Just trying to envision the march on Selma if there had been internet back then.



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 02:01 PM
link   
a reply to: Bluesma

It is one thing to be involved with your neighbors and community under your own intitiative and by your own choice. It is quite another for them to vote to involve you by force of law in ways that may prove detrimental to your well-being and that of your family.

Look at Obamacare. Sure, plenty of people can say they are getting subsidies, but many more lost their insurance, their doctors, and many more on top of that are paying much, much more than they ever were before. And then there are those who lost their insurance because they cannot afford the insurance and do not qualify for subsidy. You can make the argument that those harmed outweigh those who benefit, but those who are harmed cannot choose to not be harmed.

That is the damage done by socialism and leftism. Those who end up harmed by the policies cannot distance themselves from them. Whereas the other way - free choice - you can make the assessment of whether or not something is good and to what degree it is good before you get into it. You are not compelled to harm yourself for the greater good of others.



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 02:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Just thought of something that might put things in perspective.

Would tweeting about a protest be the same as actually going out and marching?





Or to further that, tweeting about having some kidnapped Nigerian girls returned by the terrorists who kidnapped them?

Is that the same as actually authorizing someone to go in a physically take them back?



new topics

top topics



 
78
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join