Saul of Tarsus: False prophet

a reply to: JackReyes

Your so smart, tell me.

originally posted by: Barzini
a reply to: JackReyes

Your so smart, tell me.

I already did.

a reply to: JackReyes

I have read the watch tower plenty and seen false predictions of the end of the world the coming of the messiah with dates...these did not occour... that makes them false prophesies...
I don't want to say any religion is better because this thread will just go another way...
My friend turned jehovah witness after he killed a guy in fight he got into in a restaurant in China Town in Edmonton over karaoke...
He tried to convert me he had no faith before this happened,instead he came to see things my way...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: Barzini

God has a covenant with his chosen people...
God has a new covenant with all people...
All people are now his chosen people should they choose him...
Yet he does still pass judgement...

BTW, I just realized I had this video you might enjoy to help enlighten you about this:



It's funny, because it's even in my avatar.

a reply to: JackReyes

Exactly. 12 sons 12 tribes 12 Apostles.

Thanks for your help!

originally posted by: Barzini
a reply to: JackReyes

Exactly. 12 sons 12 tribes 12 Apostles.

Thanks for your help!

Here, I'll help you a little. I'll re-quote part of my first response to you, since you ignored it, and chose not to go back and to read it:

"There was never a tribe of Joseph in Israel. Your understanding is faulty.

And there were indeed 13 tribes in Israel, how can you not know this? Or did you know and are hoping no one else did?

The twelve tribes who received a land inheritance were:

Reuben, Simeon, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Benjamin, Ephraim, and Manasseh.

If you notice, two of Jacob children were not mentioned. Levi, and Joseph. Joseph was not, because he received a double inheritance. Levi was not, because they, although a tribe, the 13th tribe, did not receive a land inheritance.

So indeed there WERE 13 tribes. Levi you did not count, but it was indeed a tribe. And Joseph's children did not both receive 1/2 an allowance, but a double allowance. And that is why Joseph is not mentioned.

But we should continue, to expose you further.

Why were there only 12 tribes that received a land inheritance, while the 13th tribe, the tribe of Levi, did not?

That is because the tribe of Levi represented the Levitical priesthood, and thus, those anointed Christians who would be called to heavenly spirit life at Jesus' side to rule as kings and priests over the earth.

The rest of the "other sheep" of Christians would find a hope for everlasting life on earth.

That is why Jesus said in symbolic terms to his 11 faithful apostles on the night of his death, when he inaugurated the covenant for a kingdom..."

a reply to: JackReyes



Are you serious? Ephraim and Mannassah were half tribes.

Show me a scriptural reference to 13 tribes and not 12 or give up.

a reply to: Barzini

(Numbers 1:33) . . .and the number registered of the tribe of Eʹphra·im was 40,500.

(Numbers 13:8) 8 of the tribe of Eʹphra·im. . .

(Joshua 16:8) . . .This is the inheritance of the tribe of Eʹphra·im by their families. . .

etc.

I think where you are in error, is thinking that Manasseh was a "half-tribe."

What those scriptures were referring to, was after the conquering of Jericho, and the land of Canaan, half of the tribe was giving a portion of land on the east of the Jordan, while a half was given a portion on the other side. No where is it stated, that Ephraim and Manasseh were both given half a portion.

In fact this is what Jacob stated:

(Genesis 48:4, 5) . . .And he said to me, ‘I am making you fruitful, and I will make you many, and I will transform you into a congregation of peoples, and I will give this land to your offspring after you as a lasting possession.’ 5 Now your two sons who were born to you in the land of Egypt before I came to you in Egypt are mine. Eʹphra·im and Ma·nasʹseh will become mine just as Reuʹben and Simʹe·on are mine.

So there were 12 tribes of Israel that received the land inheritance. Again. Joseph received a double portion, in his son's Ephraim and Manasseh. Where you err is in thinking that because Manasseh was given 1/2 its inheritance on one side of the Jordan, and 1/2 its inheritance on the other side, both children received 1/2 inheritance. They indeed counted as two tribes.

Here are the scriptures you wanted as well to verify this: (along with the rest I quoted above): Nu 32:39-42; De 3:13-15; 1Ch 2:21, 22; Jos 1:12-18; 4:12.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

Jesus did not only say "Love one another" He said:

And Jesus said to him, "What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?" He ( A Samaritan) answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" And Jesus replied, "You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE"

You people are proposing to kick God completely out of the equation, and that is senseless.

An example: My husband supports me, and provides all my needs. (I am not working, he is the provider in the house) Now, should I kick him out of the house and expect him to still support me and provide me all my needs? What if I still was nice to his sister, like he once asked me to be? Should I say well I am nice to his sister like he asked, so he still has to provide me all my needs?

The proposal that we can kick God out of our lives, simply be nice to each other, love one another only and still attain all the promises of God, is insanity at best.

a reply to: JackReyes


No show me the words 13 tribes and stop trying to twist scripture.

a reply to: Kitana

To "only" love one another is stupid.

But to have long among each other is the identifying mark of true Christians:

(John 13:35) By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.”

Why would you think that Jesus only meant that love would extend to other Christians? It would extend to all mankind.

It would mean one would do what is good for others, everyone, but especially toward those in the faith:

(Galatians 6:10) . . .let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith.

Jesus said to love those persecuting us. So that would mean that we don't hate those who hate us. We return good for evil. And show them love.

That is the mark of a true disciple.

Part of the fruitage of the spirit is love, and the most important one:

(Galatians 5:22) . . .On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love...

Without love, we are nothing. If one does not love in spirit and in deed, they have not come to know God, for God is love:

(1 John 4:8) . . .Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.

And since love is a part of the fruitage of God's holy spirit, all those alienated from God do lack true love. They will be divided. They will hate, they will fight, they will bicker, they will envy, they will have jealousy, they will war among each other, and murder each other.

Where division, hatred, strife, warfare exist, the spirit of God does not reside.

a reply to: JackReyes

Because you just showed me scripture saying 12 tribes.

Show me 13 Jack, show it.

a reply to: Kitana

You are confused at the very least I didn't say that he said only do that...
Nor did I say say you don't need God...
I said that by doing God's will by doing his will even if you didn't know him you actually believe in him,because he is love but also because by doing his will you would not be doing wrong against him....
You get that?
And if you kicked your husband out I know you would be going after all you could from him... Seeing as you don't have a job and all...
Get real...

originally posted by: Barzini
a reply to: JackReyes


No show me the words 13 tribes and stop trying to twist scripture.

I already have several times. What is the point to help you any further, when, what you are shown you thought you knew was false, you continue to cling to it?

The sons of Reuʹben, the descendants of Israel’s firstborn, were listed by name, by family, and by their paternal houses. All the males from 20 years old and up who could serve in the army were counted individually, 21 and the number registered of the tribe of Reuʹben was 46,500.
22 The descendants of Simʹe·on were listed by name, by family, and by their paternal houses. All the males from 20 years old and up who could serve in the army were counted individually, 23 and the number registered of the tribe of Simʹe·on was 59,300.
24 The descendants of Gad were listed by name, by family, and by their paternal houses. All the males from 20 years old and up who could serve in the army were counted, 25 and the number registered of the tribe of Gad was 45,650.
26 The descendants of Judah were listed by name, by family, and by their paternal houses. All the males from 20 years old and up who could serve in the army were counted, 27 and the number registered of the tribe of Judah was 74,600.
28 The descendants of Isʹsa·char were listed by name, by family, and by their paternal houses. All the males from 20 years old and up who could serve in the army were counted, 29 and the number registered of the tribe of Isʹsa·char was 54,400.
30 The descendants of Zebʹu·lun were listed by name, by family, and by their paternal houses. All the males from 20 years old and up who could serve in the army were counted, 31 and the number registered of the tribe of Zebʹu·lun was 57,400.
32 The descendants of Joseph through Eʹphra·im were listed by name, by family, and by their paternal houses. All the males from 20 years old and up who could serve in the army were counted, 33 and the number registered of the tribe of Eʹphra·im was 40,500.
34 The descendants of Ma·nasʹseh were listed by name, by family, and by their paternal houses. All the males from 20 years old and up who could serve in the army were counted, 35 and the number registered of the tribe of Ma·nasʹseh was 32,200.
36 The descendants of Benjamin were listed by name, by family, and by their paternal houses. All the males from 20 years old and up who could serve in the army were counted, 37 and the number registered of the tribe of Benjamin was 35,400.
38 The descendants of Dan were listed by name, by family, and by their paternal houses. All the males from 20 years old and up who could serve in the army were counted, 39 and the number registered of the tribe of Dan was 62,700.
40 The descendants of Ashʹer were listed by name, by family, and by their paternal houses. All the males from 20 years old and up who could serve in the army were counted, 41 and the number registered of the tribe of Ashʹer was 41,500.
42 The descendants of Naphʹta·li were listed by name, by family, and by their paternal houses. All the males from 20 years old and up who could serve in the army were counted, 43 and the number registered of the tribe of Naphʹta·li was 53,400.
44 These were registered by Moses together with Aaron and the 12 chieftains of Israel, each representing his paternal house. 45 All the Israelites from 20 years old and up who could serve in the army in Israel were registered by their paternal house, 46 and the total number registered was 603,550.
47 But the Levites were not registered in among them by the tribe of their fathers. 48 So Jehovah told Moses: 49 “Only the tribe of Leʹvi you are not to register, and you should not include the number of them along with the other Israelites. 50 You should appoint the Levites over the tabernacle of the Testimony and over all its utensils and over everything that belongs to it. They will carry the tabernacle and all its utensils, and they will minister at it, and they are to camp around the tabernacle. 51 Whenever the tabernacle is to be moved, the Levites should take it down; and when the tabernacle is to be reassembled, the Levites should set it up; and any unauthorized person who comes near should be put to death.
52 “Each Israelite should set up his tent in his assigned camp, each man according to his three-tribe division by their companies. 53 And the Levites should encamp around the tabernacle of the Testimony, so that no indignation may arise against the assembly of the Israelites; and the Levites must be responsible for the care of the tabernacle of the Testimony.”
54 The people of Israel did all that Jehovah had commanded Moses. They did just so.

a reply to: JackReyes

PRODUCE THE WORDS THIRTEEN TRIBES.

OH, you can't, because there are only 12

a reply to: Barzini

Later on I'll show you how they count 13 tribes my battery is low...

originally posted by: Barzini
a reply to: JackReyes

PRODUCE THE WORDS THIRTEEN TRIBES.

OH, you can't, because there are only 12

There are 12 tribes that received a land inheritance. But as you can clearly see, in Numbers 1, quoted above, there were 13 tribes, but notice:

(Numbers 1:49) . . .“Only the tribe of Leʹvi you are not to register, and you should not include the number of them along with the other Israelites.

So the tribe of Levi was not counted among the other 12 tribes.

I can understand that you are not able to grasp this, that is okay. But since you cannot, how is it that you continue to argue with scripture?

Even more, here is a question more perplexing.

Since the 12 tribes of Israel (excluding Levi which was not counted among the those who received the land inheritance, and that reason was explained to you already, although you probably didn't read it) why is there a difference in the 12 tribes of Israel in Revelation 7:

5Out of the tribe of Judah 12,000 sealed;
out of the tribe of Reuʹben 12,000;
out of the tribe of Gad 12,000;
6 out of the tribe of Ashʹer 12,000;
out of the tribe of Naphʹta·li 12,000;
out of the tribe of Ma·nasʹseh 12,000;
7 out of the tribe of Simʹe·on 12,000;
out of the tribe of Leʹvi 12,000;
out of the tribe of Isʹsa·char 12,000;
8 out of the tribe of Zebʹu·lun 12,000;
out of the tribe of Joseph 12,000;
out of the tribe of Benjamin 12,000 sealed.

If you noticed, Ephraim is not even mentioned here, while Levi is. And Joseph is listed as one of the 12, while in Israel there is no tribe of Joseph.

Can you answer these things?

If you can, then you will begin to understand.

a reply to: JackReyes

Your just making this fun, because I already know, as does the rest of the world, that Israel has 12 tribes. You can't produce the words "13 tribes" for the simple fact that the bible says "12".

But A for effort Jack, you gave it your best.

originally posted by: Barzini
a reply to: JackReyes

Your just making this fun, because I already know, as does the rest of the world, that Israel has 12 tribes. You can't produce the words "13 tribes" for the simple fact that the bible says "12".

But A for effort Jack, you gave it your best.

No indeed. But you refuse to answer the question. Not a single one. When proof of scripture has already been given you. The 12 tribes were those who received a land inheritance.

As you said everyone in the world can do so. Then do it.

Why in Revelation 7 are Joseph and Levi listed among the tribes, and Ephraim is left out?

If that is such an easy thing the whole world can do it.

Or can you show me where Joseph is listed as a tribe in Israel in scripture?

Now Numbers 1, clearly showed you 13 tribes, and Joseph was not one of them, and we are told that the "tribe of Levi" was NOT to be counted among the other 12.

It was clearly shown to you.

You continue to ignore it, and will NOT be able to explain the variance in the tribal names of Israel and that of spiritual Israel in Revelation 7. While I have shown you, by scripture everything.

a reply to: JackReyes

The bible says 12 tribes.

Ephraim and Mannassah are HALF TRIBES. I am finished with you.