Do we have the right to suicide?

a reply to: Shiloh7
Thanks Shiloh. I appreciate it.

a reply to: onequestion

As someone who has gone through depression and completely recovered, I have a huge problem with euthanasia for people with depression "unresponsive to therapy".

Here in Belgium, there have been many cases like this. Normally, at least one psychiatrist must give his approval, but even this requirement has been sidestepped.

Anyone who has been through severe depression and healed from it, knows that this condition completely distorts one's judgement. Most also know that it is crucial to have the right support and the right therapist (which is rarely a psychiatrist who mostly focus on the symptoms and medicate those).

Another problem is that these types of euthanasia cases cause others who are depressed to feel that they should go the same route and thus stop being a burden to their loved ones.

People who are depressed need love, understanding, support, and a lot of patience. Medical professionals, such as doctors and psychiatrists, are overly focused on medicine and science, and rarely have a holistic approach to suffering which is much more effective than treating symptoms.

Some of these medical professionals in the euthanasia field are playing God. I know several of them.

soulwaxer

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: spirit_horse
a reply to: Ksihkehe

I have the same pacts. We will not let one live like that.

Dignity, in life or death, is not something strangers should decide. I can tell we're siblings in our beliefs. I hope neither of us comes to it and we die in our sleep, dreaming of better things.

Yes brother, I pray every night to just not wake up. And you point about strangers deciding is right on.

I will tell you that I was confronted with the doctors wanting to know if she was an organ donor and what all happened and what I found out later disturbs me greatly. She was 15 and I do not believe I was told the truth about the situation. I don't trust these types at all any more. Hell, even the state police called for body bags for me twice. If it wasn't for the right kind of stranger that decided to take heroic measures I wouldn't be talking about it. Still, money becomes an issue if some asshat decided your components are worth it more to them than heroic measures.

I have got to try and crash a couple hours amigos. But, in line with the discussion here is one for you....

originally posted by: Nyiah
If it comes down to a choice between me being a burden on my kids to care for me, being in a nursing home, or having the option of euthanasia & being no one's burden, guess which one I'm choosing?

That's my point. When you grow old you should not be a "burden". The burden of being a burden will open people up to manipulation.

Like I said, a horrendously difficult ethical problem.

Either way, it's about dignity in dying. So, if you have incurable cancer then you should be able to choose "your end". If you are old and frail, then you should not feel like a "burden on the state, or your families".

a reply to: spirit_horse

I am so sorry to hear of your suffering. A huge big hug to you.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Forensick

Does the question of Morality come down to perspective and if that's the case then how do we decide?

Thats the kicker pal, I have had a few colleagues (both female - for the record) with whom I supported for a bullying claim. I was on the end of the same tirade by the jumped up little **** but it didnt bother me, I just looked at him whilst he was making noise and imagined how many ways I could kick the living cr4p out of him.

But my mate, he made her cry. Thats not her fault, that is his fault, noone should be made to cry by their boss (or colleagues or anyone else). A recent 'manager' - she (it) is not a manager, put its team on resilience training becuase she is a bitch.

So if you cannot decide who may or may not be offended, upset or have their lives ruined, then it should be illegal. If you are happy to take your own life and put someone else through that sh1t then fair enough, but dont make it acceptable.

So

a reply to: soulwaxer

You are right in my personal opinion,i do not think depression alone should be a good enough reason,in general. I have been suffering from major depressive disorder my entire life since childhood,and i Do understand how bleak and hopeless it can make one feel,how it can distort one's perceptions and thought processes.Still,the best support IS a combination of the right anti-depressant (imo only for a limited time,until the person feels better) then more importantly Plenty of love and unwavering support from loved ones,therapy to learn coping mechanisms and just to talk,etc.

Thing is-a huge lot of folks do not Have that ESSENTIAL component,the love and unwavering support of family/good friends. If one is pretty much alone in the world,which can include having a family and some friends,but not of a very loving,supportive type -i can understand how such a person may feel it's best to exit here. They feel their presence here is tortuous and that they will not be much missed or mourned Anyway,you know?

Which is a crying shame,love and support always work better than any pill in the long term. This is a very difficult subject though,and i do not wish to,nor can i, judge those who do choose to depart because of depression.

a reply to: onequestion

I am having the opportunity now to watch the video,i was replying in general before. Will reply more when i'm done. Thanks for bringing this thought-provoking thread. This is definitely a matter that should not be such a taboo,the subject of euthanasia for people.

ETA:


BTW this is a short clip,i see,is there a place i can watch the whole episode? I understand what the old Dutch lady said:"Her life has become unbearable"
I would very much like to see the entire video though.

a reply to: Raxoxane

I have a major depressive disorder, anxiety.

I do not know what caused it, my colleagues would laugh if they knew how hard it is for me to face them every day, when I try and get off the pills I end up locking myself away, 40 year old male here, sucessful manager, my team thing I am the best boss they have had, not one of them knows the pain I carry walking into a meeting or having to stand in front of 100+ people.

I could end it all tomorrow instead of struggling every day...

a reply to: Forensick

Please hang in there. I know how hard it is,i really do know..You are very brave,and you are right,other people usually really have no idea. To understand severe depression one Must have lived with it,otherwise it's impossible. Feel free to pm me if you want to talk,anytime at all,and i mean that from my heart.

Of course we have the "right to suicide" but this thread isn't about that; it's about the rights and wrongs of doctor-assisted suicide. Big diff.

Although you of course have the ability to commit suicide.
and it could only be possible if you wanted to making it entirely a personal decision. That does not give you the right.

I say this because to do so you would have to be out of the norm for yourself, in other words other factors are at play which are effecting a proper frame of mind. For this reason it is unfair to the healthy you,whom should have the chance to carry on after solving the problem.

Next you must consider all those who love you for you will be hurting them as much if not more than yourself. And thier pain will last until they too die...

If you are so sick that it is going to happen anyway why the need to hasten the inevitable? If you say it's because you are scared well I would have to say you are lying to me as well as yourself. And if it's because of the pain well anyway you look at it death will be painful. And the method you choose may even prove to be worse...for even if there was a probable long period of suffering ahead of you,you may fail and leave yourself in a worse state suffering even more...

Let's not forget about your soul the real you. perhaps you call it your consciousness, no matter what you call it if you are considering doing the unthinkable to yourself this is most likely what has been harmed. To go through with it would only do your soul more harm.

So it is a solution to nothing...

Instead of letting go of life, let go of whatever it is that has done you the harm to make you feel this way.do not dwell on this problem or the false solution for it...
I can understand the pain and torment which would lead to this desire but I can also see its a lie...

If that's not good enough reason... I said you are not allowed!!!

a reply to: CJCrawley

Doctors have that oath that says "First do no Harm" not so?

So the doctor's dilemma would/should boil down to - "Is this person's quality of life so unbearable that i am actually Harming them by not assisting them in a painless suicide?" Not a position i would like to be in,but imo being a doctor SHOULD be a Sacred calling,not a career entered into lightly,and Definitely not for financial success only. Along with that position,difficult decisions will necessarily follow. And the political will should be present,to see through, the implications of those hard decisions.

a reply to: Forensick

Let someone into your problems some burdens are too heavy to bear alone.You may feel much better for doing it, don't let a fear like being laughed at stop you. You said you are 40, tell me what adult would laugh at you for sharing your pain?
Sounds like you need a good friend who would just listen to you...
I'm curious also as to if you love your job and find it rewarding?
And can you still laugh at yourself?

a reply to: onequestion

I believe in having someone choose to end their life if they are suffering, in extreme pain and are dying. We give more respect to animals by ending their suffering than we do humans!

a reply to: WeRpeons

How many animals have you seen kill themselves?

And you can't count marine life because I believe there are other factors involved which confuses them, when they wash themselves onshore...

I know you were speaking about putting an animal out of thier misery...

My pain, loneliness, despair and mortal frailty drove me not to the death of my physical form but the death of my ego and my acceptance of a higher order of consciousness pervading my perceived universe. Discovering this order underlying the chaos of my life and my nature began to change me at a fundamental level. We all have a fundamental right to quit the race when we tire of it and can go no further. I suggest that the will to live can be strong enough to break the mortal coil. We can get off the wheel of Karma without ending our lives but by beginning to embrace our inherent immortality while we still live by surrendering our will/ego to the divine in nature.

a reply to: spirit_horse

You are a very powerful person and I respect you for your decision.

I too am disabled but not at your level. I know what pain is and I have passed out from extreme pain on more than one occasion but I agree with you about family. Of course everyone has the right to do what they want to do and my personal opinion is that I am against suicide.

Pain is an issue. Some of us can deal with it -...... others can not and I disagree with those who say that pain medication can only do so much and at some time it stops working, like with cancer paitents...... that is false. Hospitals and doctors often under medicate in fear of the paitent overdosing OR most times the patient request to remain conscious so they cut down the medication. Many prefer to leave this planet while being aware of their surroundings as they lay dying (which I recommend for spiritual reasons) There are other medications than opium based morphine that can stop pain....the only reason hospitals use morphine is because of US laws and regulations. There are thousands of mind altering drugs and plants that can help with dealing with pain.

Because of my religious beliefs I believe we should not take our own lives. According to one of the ten commandments which I follow, Thou shall not kill (murder is the more accurate term), Suicide is a form of murder - you are murdering yourself. So the last act you commit prior to dying is murdering yourself. Those who do this that have extreme mental disabilities can be justified but those who are not mentally disabled have no excuse.

I know pain can seem to be forever and it takes a strong will and mind to fight back. The human is capable of doing this.... I can give you hundreds of examples.....like the Jehovah witnesses slowly choking to death due to a lack of blood as they lay dying for weeks slowly choking to death..

I think we are better than simply giving up and to use family as an example as to why to die is a cowardly move and selfish .... a cheap way to justify suicide.

a reply to: Ksihkehe

Better one of us live in a cell than either of us live in a ruined body.

What's the difference?