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UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

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posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 04:22 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
It might make sense to bring in people from outside the UK and allow them to be paid less with less rights.

WTF?! You are taking the piss yeah?




posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 04:27 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: nonspecific
It might make sense to bring in people from outside the UK and allow them to be paid less with less rights.

WTF?! You are taking the piss yeah?


I meant from an economic point of view as opposed to a beneficial to the UK point.

It is cheaper for companies(or the NHS) to hire non UK citizens as they are prepared to work for less. This is good for business.

It is also good for the house rental business as most non UK residents rent and the buy to let business is booming right now and wealthy people are gaining from this.

Does it not make sense to create a situation that suits your own cause than one that benefits the nation as a whole?



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Hmmm... except these agency staff we keep hearing about seem to be pretty expensive.

I did think that perhaps it was a wheeze by the government of the day to balance the books in the short term, then by the time it got expensive another lot would be in power and have to carry the can.

That definitely sounds like the sort of thing our 'betters' would do.

BUT - just my musings.


edit on 27-3-2016 by berenike because: to paranoid to leave in 'pox ridden'



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
I meant from an economic point of view as opposed to a beneficial to the UK point.

It is cheaper for companies(or the NHS) to hire non UK citizens as they are prepared to work for less. This is good for business.

It is also good for the house rental business as most non UK residents rent and the buy to let business is booming right now and wealthy people are gaining from this.

Does it not make sense to create a situation that suits your own cause than one that benefits the nation as a whole?

So why on Earth are you considering voting 'remain' in June?!
...and are you close to sharing a response regarding the UK not funding training of doctors, but instead choosing to drain Romania of theirs, which Romania paid to train?
I think it is disgraceful, a real scandal.



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 04:48 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: nonspecific
I meant from an economic point of view as opposed to a beneficial to the UK point.

It is cheaper for companies(or the NHS) to hire non UK citizens as they are prepared to work for less. This is good for business.

It is also good for the house rental business as most non UK residents rent and the buy to let business is booming right now and wealthy people are gaining from this.

Does it not make sense to create a situation that suits your own cause than one that benefits the nation as a whole?

So why on Earth are you considering voting 'remain' in June?!
...and are you close to sharing a response regarding the UK not funding training of doctors, but instead choosing to drain Romania of theirs, which Romania paid to train?
I think it is disgraceful, a real scandal.


I think that the state of the NHS and the issues regarding it are seperate from an "in" "out" EU debate.

I am happy to discuss it in depth but not in a brexit debate as I do not think it is relevant.


Start a thread matey, it will I imagine be interesting.




posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Lame deflection about a very real EU issue.
I guess the NHS stealing trained doctors from Romania/Hungary goes against your pro EU arguments so I understand why you may not wish to address it. Lame.

*Edit*
Go on, defend that brain drain from piss poor EU countries as opposed to training our own doctors.
edit on 27.3.2016 by grainofsand because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 05:00 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

Lame deflection about a very real EU issue.
I guess the NHS stealing trained doctors from Romania/Hungary goes against your pro EU arguments so I understand why you may not wish to address it. Lame.

*Edit*
Go on, defend that brain drain from piss poor EU countries as opposed to training our own doctors.


I disagree.

Important issue but not a brexit one.

Will it change if we leave?

Nope, it will remain so not an issue for this topic.

Deserves a debate of its own and should not be used as a brexit tool.

Edit: bringing in doctors and nurses from overseas is not an EU issue or a new thing.

Issue? Yes.

EU referendum issue ? Nope...
edit on 27/3/2016 by nonspecific because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
Deserves a debate of its own and should not be used as a brexit tool.

Why not?
The 'brain drain' from Eastern Europe is clear and documented, and solely the result of political union.
Why are you apparently running away from that valid conversation?

Deflection much?

*Edit*
The Romanian taxpayer funds the training of a doctor and as soon as they qualify they can move to the UK.
The UK gets a trained doctor for nothing and underfunds doctor training in the UK.
You think that's good, really?
edit on 27.3.2016 by grainofsand because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: nonspecific
Deserves a debate of its own and should not be used as a brexit tool.

Why not?
The 'brain drain' from Eastern Europe is clear and documented, and solely the result of political union.
Why are you apparently running away from that valid conversation?

Deflection much?


I just feel that the question in point is bigger than an EU exit.

Anyone that thinks that choosing to leave the EU will resolve the issues with the NHS and our education system may be overstating the importance of the EU.

Do you think a brexit will solve the issues in question then?



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

See my previous post edit fella, you apparently support rinsing piss poor EU nations?
I don't.



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 05:20 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

See my previous post edit fella, you apparently support rinsing piss poor EU nations?
I don't.


As I said this is something that deserves a discussion in it's own right.

It is not to be confused with the issue of EU membership as this would happen regardless.

How many of our Doctors and Nurses are not from the UK? Where do they come from and why?


This is not a Brexit issue but a UK one, sod all to do with the EU and everything to do with education and finance.

Feel free to use it as an issue but I bet you ten to a penny that even with an EU exit this issue will still be with us ten years from now.



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

It is absolutely an EU issue because EU membership is causing the loss of doctors to the UK from Romania.
Deny it as much you like but the problem remains.
...takes you out of your comfort zone doesn't it.



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 05:36 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

It is absolutely an EU issue because EU membership is causing the loss of doctors to the UK from Romania.
Deny it as much you like but the problem remains.
...takes you out of your comfort zone doesn't it.


No it does not because I think that even if we leave the EU we will still have issues with education and having to bring in non UK staff for the NHS.

Forget evil eastern Europeans for a moment and tell me what nationality your last Doctor was?

Or the Doctor in the ER room you last saw?



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 05:37 PM
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Anyone that thinks that choosing to leave the EU will resolve the issues with the NHS and our education system may be overstating the importance of the EU. Do you think a brexit will solve the issues in question then?


Absolutely not (in the case of nursing staff).

Nurses have been on the shortage occupation list for a long long time. This month, the government accepted a recommendation from the Migration Advisory Committee to retain nurses on this list. This means fast tracked visa applications with the £35000/year permanent residency rule wavered.

The Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) has also introduced new rules regarding level of English fluency for nurses coming from the EEA in January of this year. This came from a government ruling in 2014 giving the NMC authority to do this. The EU elites tried to fight this. They lost.

Edit: Saying that I agree with grainofsand regarding stealing staff. After a number of years of consultation and planning a new 'associate nurse' training programme is available from this year. Two year diploma level, rather than 3 year degree it takes for registered nurses. Some have suggested it is a return to a second level nurse (SEN) although there is no evidence of this at this point in time from what I can gather.


edit on 27-3-2016 by Morrad because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 05:40 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
Forget evil eastern Europeans for a moment and tell me what nationality your last Doctor was?

Or the Doctor in the ER room you last saw?

GP = Doctor Smith (English)
Maxilo Facial, Miss Frea (English)

...what point are you trying to make?
I'm saying it is wrong to steal the brightest and best from poor countries. Do you disagree?



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: nonspecific
Forget evil eastern Europeans for a moment and tell me what nationality your last Doctor was?

Or the Doctor in the ER room you last saw?

GP = Doctor Smith (English)
Maxilo Facial, Miss Frea (English)

...what point are you trying to make?
I'm saying it is wrong to steal the brightest and best from poor countries. Do you disagree?


Yet again you are trying to force the issue into an brexit one.

I am not arguing that there are not problems with the NHS but the idea that leaving the EU will magically solve this is absurd.

If we leave the EU will the issues that the NHS has be resolved?



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 05:51 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

So do you support the UK taking the brightest and best off Hungary without paying a penny for their training or not?



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 06:02 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

So do you support the UK taking the brightest and best off Hungary without paying a penny for their training or not?


well given that you are like a dog with a bone that will not let go then I will bite back then.

A lot of people that live in Hungary are very keen to come to the UK as they see a lot of benefit to moving to such a progressive nation.

They are keen and eager. Given that we have a large amount of socially useless teenagers and they see a gap in the market is it all that bad?

Did you not move to find a better life?



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 06:05 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

So do you support the UK taking the brightest and best off Hungary without paying a penny for their training or not?


well given that you are like a dog with a bone that will not let go then I will bite back then.

A lot of people that live in Hungary are very keen to come to the UK as they see a lot of benefit to moving to such a progressive nation.

They are keen and eager. Given that we have a large amount of socially useless teenagers and they see a gap in the market is it all that bad?

Did you not move to find a better life?


So you support the UK taking the brightest and best off Hungary without paying a penny for their training then?
What is your answer to that simple question?
I think it is a scandal, we should use taxes to fund training of British doctors.



posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 06:17 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

So do you support the UK taking the brightest and best off Hungary without paying a penny for their training or not?


well given that you are like a dog with a bone that will not let go then I will bite back then.

A lot of people that live in Hungary are very keen to come to the UK as they see a lot of benefit to moving to such a progressive nation.

They are keen and eager. Given that we have a large amount of socially useless teenagers and they see a gap in the market is it all that bad?

Did you not move to find a better life?


So you support the UK taking the brightest and best off Hungary without paying a penny for their training then?
What is your answer to that simple question?
I think it is a scandal, we should use taxes to fund training of British doctors.


I respect the fact that Hungarians will rise to the challenge of life and grab it by the balls and run with it.

I do not like the fact that the NHS needs to utilise this.

I still fail to see why this is a subject that should be considered in an EU exit discussion.

The failings of the NHS is a UK issue and the decision to leave the EU will not change this.

Why is the failing of the NHS an EU brexit issue.

Genuine question here, will an EU exit solve the problems within the NHS?

Yes or no?




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