UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

a reply to: Freeborn


Well I get the 2 year, managed break up part but yeah, the "we decide ultimately if you leave or not" part seemed like a load of bollocks to me.

Like I said, I may have misheard but it stood out to me... and I thought it seemed ridiculous.
This will be the kind of crap (and way way worse) we'll have to endure during the debate though.
Frothing at the mouth nonsense.

Oh well.

originally posted by: Painterz
Whereas 'in' can make good arguments about EU subsidies

Absolute bull#!
THE UK IS A NET CONTRIBUTING NATION IN THE EU PAYING 8+ BILLION £GBP PER YEAR FOR MEMBERSHIP.
THOSE 'SUBSIDIES' ARE JUST A SMALL AMOUNT OF OUR OWN MONEY BEING PAID BACK.
WITHOUT THE 'SUBSIDIES' OUR NET CONTRIBUTION WOULD BE EVEN HIGHER!

...sorry for the all caps above, just wanted to make that fact absolutely clear to those who bleat about 'subsidies'.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: SprocketUK I've always been a fan since his talk sport days.

Just think it's not good to have one political side be seen as the dominant voice, good to have a bit of cross party consensus. It's not a left/ Right issue and the media would be wise to remember that. People shouldn't feel alienated from the debate.

Definitely. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a very clever, mostly straightforward type and I do enjoy listening to him when he's on form.

You are dead right about it not being a left right thing too. My old union, th RMT have pretty much always been campaigning to get us out of this mess.

Boris Johnson just appeared on Sky to say he is supporting brexit. Sooo happy because with him on board he will bring the personality which will speak to some people. He is also experienced in campaigning on a grand scale. Great news.

One thing that bothered me this morning was when Cameron said on Andrew Marr show if we vote to leave he will do his best to impliment it. What the hell is that supposed to mean? Surely if we vote out that is exactly what should happen!

originally posted by: anxiouswens
One thing that bothered me this morning was when Cameron said on Andrew Marr show if we vote to leave he will do his best to impliment it. What the hell is that supposed to mean?

There are certainly influences in the background which the likes of us have no real idea of, nothing is black or white, it's all grey.

It reminds me of an interview with Michael Heseltine in the wee twee hours after Tony Blair won the 1997 election. The reporter was asking about Blairs plans and such like to which Heseltine replied with an assured cocky chuckle [paraphrase] "Oh he hasn't been security briefed yet, let's see what he has to say later in the morning".
As with everything, the higher up the food chain the greater the disclosure.

Yeah I have a bad feeling that even if we vote to leave things will be very difficult. I think far more has been given away over the years that most havent got a clue about. Makes me wonder whether something has been written in law that says we cant leave, really does!a reply to: grainofsand

a reply to: anxiouswens

For sure the levels we would be talking about are way above any notion of laws, and general citizens are considered commodities more than anything else.
Even in senior civil service people are just budget figures, you know, how many people will die etc compared to cost of preventing it.

I'm just going to enjoy this presentation of democracy on my plate right now and see what happens...

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'd like to voice my thoughts on the subject...

Call me a crazy conspiracy nutbag, but in my mind when power-hungry countries are telling you to stay in the EU, to me that's a huge red flag that it's time to get the hell out.

Whatever these powerhouses have coming down the pipeline is not going to be pretty, and in my opinion, you guys are going to need every ounce of sovereignty you can get your hands on to be able to make any imperative decisions for yourselves and what's best for the UK.

Leaving the EU does not mean that you're suddenly going to have a bunch European enemies. Trade and diplomatic alliances will still carry on like business as usual. "Free" trade (pfft) is still going to continue forward whether you're in or out because we are now living in a globalized economy anyways (for better or worse, whether we like it or not).

One huge issue that I think everyone needs to step back and really chew on is the fact that the TTIP is on the way, and being a part of the EU when that ugly thing kicks in is going to weaken your voices even more on any issues regarding the UK economy and job creation. Think long and hard about that one folks !

To me, there's a lot more to be gained than lost by stepping out of the EU at this particular time in history... one of the most important being that you get back your own voices in this globalized world-gone-mad corporate arena that we're all about to enter into.


Just my two pence worth.

a reply to: CranialSponge

Lol, we have crossed swords a few times in different discussions but you got a star for that perfectly well reasoned post.
We are in complete agreement regarding Europe and the UK

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

I believe we will leave the EU and the result could be higher for exit than some think.
There is discontent among the British public over years of failure and nonsense regulation from the EU and I believe many people who haven't voted in years will come out for this vote that actually stands to change something.

The European Union is a German Franco centered organization with rules tailored for their benefit , we should get out now before the whole house of cards collapses , which it will.

Concur! enough is enough appears to be the MO.

a reply to: grainofsand

I just don't trust what's coming down the pipeline with these TTIP/TPP agreements heading our way.

We all need to rally our shields in sovereignty and form a shield wall to try to block what these bastard fascist Fortune 500's are going to start throwing at us in the very near future.

And the EU is a huge part of that fascist cartel, as far as I'm concerned.

Oh sure the EU served it's purpose and there were many benefits from it over the years, but those days are gone.

We are now facing a whole new world, folks.

Current vote status after 2 pages is as follows

%
Eligible IN = 15.38
Eligible OUT = 53.85
Eligible UNDEC = 23.08

InEligible IN = 0.00
InEligible OUT = 7.69
InEligible UNDEC = 0.00
IN OUT UNDEC
% 15.38 61.54 23.08

OUT is looking strong at this early stage. Be interesting to see what it is in early June.

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Haha, brilliant!
Nice one for taking the time and effort to post it here.
I'm thinking there are a few members yet to post here from the Netherlands and Germany (with strong views on EU membership) who will influence the 'ineligible' stats lol

originally posted by: anxiouswens
Boris Johnson just appeared on Sky to say he is supporting brexit. Sooo happy because with him on board he will bring the personality which will speak to some people. He is also experienced in campaigning on a grand scale. Great news.

One thing that bothered me this morning was when Cameron said on Andrew Marr show if we vote to leave he will do his best to impliment it. What the hell is that supposed to mean? Surely if we vote out that is exactly what should happen!

It means he has no intention of ever making it happen because it's already been decided. If the out vote is overwhelming they'll probably do what they did in Ireland and make everybody vote again.

There needs to be a contingency plan in place for this if it happens, whether that's mass strikes or organised bank runs I don't know but it would need to be serious and effective, not just protesting and waving banners.

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
If the out vote is overwhelming

It would my preferred result because it will make it more of a challenge for the government to fight it. A lame 55/45 like in Scotland would be my least preferred out result.

There needs to be a contingency plan in place for this if it happens, whether that's mass strikes or organised bank runs I don't know but it would need to be serious and effective, not just protesting and waving banners.

Hmm, I'm self employed and keep most of my cash out of any banks, I can't be much help there but I'm pretty decent with protesting and civil disobedience/direct action.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: grainofsand

I just don't trust what's coming down the pipeline with these TTIP/TPP agreements heading our way.

We all need to rally our shields in sovereignty and form a shield wall to try to block what these bastard fascist Fortune 500's are going to start throwing at us in the very near future.

And the EU is a huge part of that fascist cartel, as far as I'm concerned.

Oh sure the EU served it's purpose and there were many benefits from it over the years, but those days are gone.

We are now facing a whole new world, folks.

Some fair comments in your posts! Those that have want in because those that haven't are better off out!

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015

originally posted by: anxiouswens
Boris Johnson just appeared on Sky to say he is supporting brexit. Sooo happy because with him on board he will bring the personality which will speak to some people. He is also experienced in campaigning on a grand scale. Great news.

One thing that bothered me this morning was when Cameron said on Andrew Marr show if we vote to leave he will do his best to impliment it. What the hell is that supposed to mean? Surely if we vote out that is exactly what should happen!

It means he has no intention of ever making it happen because it's already been decided. If the out vote is overwhelming they'll probably do what they did in Ireland and make everybody vote again.

There needs to be a contingency plan in place for this if it happens, whether that's mass strikes or organised bank runs I don't know but it would need to be serious and effective, not just protesting and waving banners.

I don't think the British people will allow a 2nd vote if its a clear vote out! Revolt comes to mind!

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Haha, brilliant!
Nice one for taking the time and effort to post it here.
I'm thinking there are a few members yet to post here from the Netherlands and Germany (with strong views on EU membership) who will influence the 'ineligible' stats lol

Many thanks. Hope we can keep this thread rolling until June and see what the stats are then.
The more contributors the better.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
We all need to rally our shields in sovereignty and form a shield wall to try to block what these bastard fascist Fortune 500's are going to start throwing at us in the very near future.

If that means us English speaking folk look out for each other a bit more then you are unlikely to see me voting against it.
*Edit*
...ever.

a reply to: MagnaCarta2015

It means he has no intention of ever making it happen because it's already been decided. If the out vote is overwhelming they'll probably do what they did in Ireland and make everybody vote again.

Cameron is a committed Europhile, he'll do everything within his power to prevent us leaving the EU. But I very much doubt he'll have any sort of backing to prevent it from happening if that's the way the people vote.

I don't think an enforced second vote would ever happen either simply because its far too transparent.

If 'they' do anything to prevent an exit vote from being implemented I guess they'd use more subtle and devious methods.

There needs to be a contingency plan in place for this if it happens, whether that's mass strikes or organised bank runs I don't know but it would need to be serious and effective, not just protesting and waving banners.

There's no end to methods of effective civil disobedience......but sometimes the more direct approach can be far more appropriate - Anger can be power!