UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

originally posted by: MrsNonSpecific
You are in luck then because in the UK we have an ageing population so the baby boomers out number the younger generation. You in correct in saying that i am younger and have only ever experienced a UK in the EU, however it wasn't all sunshine and roses before the EU either. I know that in the 1970s Britain was no picnic.

I WAS there the 1960's 1970's 1980's .... Britain was buzzing.
London was the centre of the universe. It led and every where
followed.
The Beatles, David Bowie, Carnaby street, Kings road, Vidal Sasson,
Mary Quant, London fashion led the world, Twiggy, Jean Shrimpton,
David Bailey, Package holidays.... people were holidaying abroad for
the first time! needing a passport ...(no biggie I've always had one)
and foreign money ... what fun converting and using, made you feel
you were actually somewhere different.
There were opportunities lots of opportunities

But I am happy with the smoking ban (I am smoker), building regulations, work time directives, equality for mothers and fathers entitlement to MAT leave, there are many advantages to remaining in the EU and IMO these outweigh the uncertainty and possible ramifications if we opt out.

You're making an assumption that none of those things would have
happened had we not been in the EU? Whose to say they wouldn't
have?
This small island successfully fought two world wars in the space of
50years ...Don't underestimate the determination and tenacity of
the people of Britain.
For those who don't know and are fearful...

THERE WAS LIFE BEFORE THE EU AND IT WAS GOOD

originally posted by: anxiouswens
Thess days everyone is scared of offending someone, protests and strikes dont really achieve anything because we dont even know who the people are who are truly governing us!

Yes the country votes in a government ... who get pay and generous
expenses, and for what?? They have no power and no teeth to govern
us IF we stay in we should be able to do away with the middle
men and women and take directions direct from Brussels? because if
we stay that will come in a matter of time.

I cant wait to leave. I dont think by leaving there will be Utopia but at least the people running our Country will have been truly elected by us and therefore wont be able to hide behind excuses and red tape. There will be hope that there can be change for the better and any dark times will at least be an adventure into the unknown with hopefully a brighter future at the end. Vote Leave!

Those we elect can be unelected, which is what we do. Those in
Brussels we have no say over just remain and dictate! and
drain our economy. There has never been a successful audit of the
EU.

As far as working in other European Countries do you really think that will stop? I worked and lived in Malta before they joined the EU I just had to get a permit. That is what people who work and live here will be able to do. The people who wont be able to stay are the benefit tourists who arent working, which is fine with me!

Passports, whats so hard about that .... they are needed when
travelling to other parts of the world (Yes there is life outside
the EU) And good for identifying purposes.

a reply to: MrsNonSpecific

Well, that why I said surface impression. I don't know much about it and those of you actually in Britain know much, much more and can come to a better informed conclusion.

originally posted by: MrsNonSpecific
I can't help thinking though that we live in a globalised world. Britain is no longer the powerhouse that it once was. We are an insignificant economy from a global perspective. With China, Russia, the US and India being the power house of commodities and global market pricing.


Not so insignificant, this tiny island is the 5th largest economy

some interesting figures....www.confused.com...

Size isn't everything

:

a reply to: crayzeed

Mr John Longworth resigned from his position in the BCC today so that
he can fully support the *OUT* campaign.

Mr Longworth isn't speaking off the cuff, he has spent the last three
years researching the effect on Britain if it leaves Europe.

Quoting Mr Longworth

" The truth is we are one of twenty eight country's, and we have
something like 12% of any voting
We are always going to be outvoted, we haven't won a vote in twenty
years... We have NO influence"

The second largest economical contributor and no voice .... You couldn't
make it up.

Anyone remember This >>>> Oct 24th 2014

Britain has been told it must pay an extra i.7 billion into EU budget

by the end of next month. Because the UK economy is doing better

relative to other European economies.

Other countries including Germany and France are likely to be reimbursed.

LIKE THE BANKERS REWARDED FOR FAILURE.


**WHO SAYS THE UK CANNOT SURVIVE OUTSIDE THE EU**

A Downing Street source said "its not acceptable to just change fees

and demand payment at a moments notice.

This is the EU making it clear that economic success is not to be applauded

but to be punished.

LIKE THE BANKS THAT BROUGHT ABOUT THE LATE FINANCIAL CRISIS THE

EU. IS NOT TO BIG TO FAIL!


www.theguardian.com...

originally posted by: eletheia

Anyone remember This >>>> Oct 24th 2014

Britain has been told it must pay an extra i.7 billion into EU budget

by the end of next month. Because the UK economy is doing better

relative to other European economies.

Other countries including Germany and France are likely to be reimbursed.

LIKE THE BANKERS REWARDED FOR FAILURE.


**WHO SAYS THE UK CANNOT SURVIVE OUTSIDE THE EU

**

A Downing Street source said "its not acceptable to just change fees

and demand payment at a moments notice.

This is the EU making it clear that economic success is not to be applauded

but to be punished.

LIKE THE BANKS THAT BROUGHT ABOUT THE LATE FINANCIAL CRISIS THE

EU. IS NOT TO BIG TO FAIL!

www.theguardian.com...

You're right its not! Why do people think that Switzerland is putting its joining of the EU on hold? Because they know that the EU is in trouble and if the UK LEAVE that will only increase the risk of being in! Also, it suggests that the EU needs the UK IN but does the UK need the EU? NO of course not!! It is clear that there is some desperation at play here and the honesty on the part of the UK REMAIN campaign and EU officials is by definition and common sense highly questionable. Thus, RED FLAG as opposed to the RED HERRINGS of LEAVING!

(PS: After 4pm today UK time I wont be online form the next 24-48 hours but will respond to any posts on my return)

I've had a change of family circumstances recently, that will probably be the main reason I will vote to stay in. It's personal, so won't go into it, but it's more important to me than either of the campaigns arguments that have still failed to convince me. At least I can come offthe fencenow, was starting to get splinters.at least it's a personal choice not influenced by either in or out campaigns, but changes to family circumstances. I'm sure my one measly vote won't make a difference.

John Longworth's resignation as Chairman or the Chambers of British Commerce in favour of LEAVING the EU should be sufficient for the British people to vote LEAVE. Looks like he will help with the LEAVE campaign also. Respect to him!

Vote LEAVE

It’s safer to take back control. Let’s spend our money on our priorities. We can trade with Europe without giving away permanent control to people we can’t vote out.

Imagine if we Vote Leave… We can take back control of asylum policy and push for more effective cooperation at a global level to solve the refugee crisis.

Take Control Day: Saturday 12 March

www.facebook.com...

Thousands of enthusiastic activists have been out in all weathers up and down the country for weeks now, but this Saturday will be our biggest day of action yet. #TakeControlDay will see hundreds of events across the country with thousands of volunteers taking part.

We want as many people as possible to be involved and to help spread the message about why the safer option is to Vote Leave. If you aren’t already signed up to help out at a street stall or deliver some leaflets, please sign up now www.voteleavetakecontrol.org... or contact [email protected] to find out how you can play your part. Please check out our events map www.voteleavetakecontrol.org... to see what’s going on in your area – or, if you just want to deliver a few leaflets in your neighbourhood, you can order some online here. www.voteleavetakecontrol.org...#!/Leaflets/c/16326154/offset=0&sort=priceDes c

Please also visit our online shop www.voteleavetakecontrol.org... to get all the latest Vote Leave merchandise. It would be great to see thousands of supporters campaigning this weekend wearing Vote Leave T-shirts, beanie hats and caps. www.voteleavetakecontrol.org...

There are just over 100 days until the most important vote of our lifetime. This referendum is our chance to take back control from the EU – it may be our last chance to have a vote on many issues, such as immigration and asylum, for decades. Please help us win by playing your part.


EU fails to deal with migration crisis

The EU has consistently failed to deal with the migrant crisis and the situation is getting worse. The Times reports www.thetimes.co.uk... that British ships are now being deployed to support NATO operations in order to reduce the number of migrants crossing from Turkey to Europe. This not only highlights the failings of the EU, but clearly demonstrates the important role that NATO plays on the European continent, rather than the European Union.

On top of this, the FT www.ft.com...=false.html?siteedition=intl&_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs %2F0%2F6bae9d58-e3ac-11e5-ac45-5c039e797d1c.html%3Fsiteedition%3Dintl&_i_referer=&classification=conditional_standard&iab=barrier-app#axzz42AEtJTzY reports that Brussels is proposing to centralise control of asylum claims in the EU. This is a classic power grab by Brussels - it always uses crises to expand the power of the Brussels bureaucracy.

The European Court is in charge of how we implement the vital 1951 UN Convention on refugees and asylum. EU judges can use the Charter of Fundamental Rights to strike down any UK laws it wants on immigration and asylum. If we vote ‘remain’, the EU will take more and more power and this will cost us. The only way to take back control is to Vote Leave.

Boris wants to take back control

Boris Johnson told the BBC yesterday that the main reason why he wants to Vote Leave is the amount of control we have given to Brussels. Mr Johnson said that leaving the EU would be ‘wonderful … a huge weight will be lifted from British business’. He cited a number of examples of his time as London Mayor where plans to improve transport systems and health and safety standards on the capital’s roads were held back by EU law. Mr Johnson said there was a clear choice: you can stay in the EU and accept the supremacy of EU law, or you can Vote Leave and take back control.


The CEO of Next plc says he will Vote Leave

One of Britain’s most respected businesspeople, Simon Wolfson, wrote in The Times www.ft.com...=false.html?siteedition=intl&_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs %2F0%2F6bae9d58-e3ac-11e5-ac45-5c039e797d1c.html%3Fsiteedition%3Dintl&_i_referer=&classification=conditional_standard&iab=barrier-app#axzz42AEtJTzY on why he thinks it is better for the economy and business if we leave the EU. He adds his name to a growing number of business leaders who believe that the safer choice is to take back control and Vote Leave.


Don’t believe David Cameron when he claims his new deal brings powers back to Britain

Yesterday, we released our latest video ‘Who do you trust?’ www.youtube.com... which highlights some of the broken promises made by politicians about the EU. It’s had a great reception on social media, so please share it with friends and family. Tell them – Don’t Get Conned Again. You can find out more about the history of broken promises on the EU here. www.voteleavetakecontrol.org...

Remember, as Michael Gove, Secretary of State for Justice, has said, the Prime Minister’s deal is not binding on the European Court which means it could completely ignore the renegotiation after our referendum.

Today’s must reads:

There is no conspiracy. The EU is completely open about its superstate plan - Boris Johnson, Telegraph www.telegraph.co.uk...

Brussels plans radical asylum overhaul - FT
www.ft.com...=false.html?siteedition=intl&_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs %2F0%2F6bae9d58-e3ac-11e5-ac45-5c039e797d1c.html%3Fsiteedition%3Dintl&_i_referer=&classification=conditional_standard&iab=barrier-app#axzz42AEtJTzY

Britain's biggest environmental charities using public cash to call for In vote - Telegraph
www.telegraph.co.uk... In-vote.html

EU fuels terror and fascism, warns Gove - Sunday Times
www.thesundaytimes.co.uk...

British business is better off outside the EU - Simon Wolfson, chief executive of Next plc, Times
www.thetimes.co.uk...

David Cameron must release figures showing full scale of EU migration, Cabinet minister says - Telegraph
www.telegraph.co.uk... r-says.html

In my humble opinion the EU has constantly failed to deliver on its promises and that wont change if the UK REMAINS, in fact it can only get worse!!!!!

My advice of 55 years experience in and out of the corporate world and business of my own is to

Vote Leave
www.voteleavetakecontrol.org...

Recently a claim was made where American researchers claimed success in
exciting results of treating cancer with engineered cells from a patients own
immune system.
It is seen as one of the greatest advances in cancer treatment for decades.


Then I came across this article .... so wind back a few years and read this >>>>


**EU's red tape that slowed cancer cure hunt**

One of Britain's leading cancer experts, Professor Angus Daglish says life saving
research he was carrying out was stopped in its tracks by EU red tape.

The Professor a specialist at St Georges Hospital London, had being working at
the forefront of immunotherapy, a ground breaking extending and saving the
lives of terminally ill patients. His research was being funded through charity
and industrial grants.

The professor said his earlier research had already been showing amazing
results when he was forced to pull the plug in 2006.He had to stop treating
people mid trial, some patients including children were doing fantastically
well with this last resort treatment, and extended the lives in hopeless
cases, until........An ill thought out EU law was introduced in 2004/2005.

The new European regulations meant his lab. needed higher specification
air filters and demands for more stringent result checking and that all
evidence had to be screened by an independent research organisation.This
pushed up his research bill from tens of thousands to millions.
Even to price up an independent scrutiny assessment would have cost half
a million.
The professor said the restrictions were both ridiculous, unaffordable and
unnecessary. Eventually he had to close the lab.

Professor Dalglish who stood for UKIP in order to highlight his belief that
science is under threat form EU rules added: "If there was a directive saying
'Remove all brakes from cars' our health authority would do so. It beggars
belief"

Professor Karl Sikora, former advisor to the *World Health Organisation* on
cancer said of the lab. closure, "This was unnecessary bureaucracy, and very
sad."


RED TAPE... RULES (not from the UK)... DICKTATS ...EXCESS INTERFERENCE

a reply to: eletheia

Great example of the bureaucracy called the EU, though just the tip of the ice berg really.

There's also the example where Boris Johnson wanted to have safer lorries with bigger windows in London but he couldn't because of the EU.

Our MPs get told on a DAILY basis that they can't do something because of EU law/regulations.

What has always baffled me is that Britain had absolutely no reason to join the EU (or the Economic Community as it was known back in the day).

We actually didn't join for economic reasons, just to explode another myth. Economically, Britain was going great guns for much of the 1960s when our politicians were, mysteriously, most keen to join.

I think it was just fashionable to want to be part of Europe, as it still is in the rhetoric of many politicians. It was not long after WW2 when Britain was still reeling from losing its status as a world super power, and was scared of being left on the sidelines. Our future on the world stage was uncertain and greater integration with Europe seemed an attractive direction to go in.

It all keeps coming back to WW2, and that is, of course, the whole reason the EU was first mooted. It started off in the early 1950s with the Schuman Plan, which proposed a Franco-German merging of their coal and steel industries, and led to the formation of the European Coal and Steel Community; which led to the Treaty of Rome in 1958 and the birth of the EU. Britain wasn't even consulted on the plans. The EU was never meant to include Britain.

And the following decade, when Britain made two separate applications to join the club, both applications were vetoed by a hostile France, who argued that Britain had always been a maritime nation with links across the globe and didn't have the same history as the original 6 members (France, Germany, Italy, the Benelux countries).

I'd have to agree with that.

a reply to: CJCrawley

The U.K joined because of the Bilderberg Group, pure and simple. The E.U was to be the blue print to roll out Unions all over the globe, it's a NWO thing.

Now, we can't have a Prime Minister unless he/she is a Bilderberger, it's the same throughout the E.U and the U.S (Clinton will win the election).

At the 210 Labour Leadership contest it was nailed on that David Milliband would be voted Leader, he was the rightful heir to take over the New Labour Reins. I then
came across something on an alternative satellite channel and there was a guy on there explaining that David was not Bilderberger and would not be voted Leader and it would have to be wither Ed Milliband or Ed Balls, because they both were. Low and behold, little Brother gives big Brother a bloody nose and defeats him to become Leader.

The E.U is run by a bunch of unelected commissioners, who dictate what is the best for everyone in Europe. Sure some laws were sensible, others not so, but at the end of the day we are being dictated to by unelected law makers.

If leaving will be financially damaging to the U.K, please provide the figures and the rationale for the figures. If it's a case of not knowing what the damage could be, if any, then I would suggest leaving would be the sensible thing to do. There's a few Billion to be saved in membership costs alone.

originally posted by: CJCrawley
What has always baffled me is that Britain had absolutely no reason to join the EU (or the Economic Community as it was known back in the day)

Me too.

We actually didn't join for economic reasons, just to explode another myth. Economically, Britain was going great guns for much of the 1960s when our politicians were, mysteriously, most keen to join.

Yes I remember the swinging 60's and beyond. It was a time of opportunity

I think it was just fashionable to want to be part of Europe, as it still is in the rhetoric of many politicians. It was not long after WW2 when Britain was still reeling from losing its status as a world super power, and was scared of being left on the sidelines. Our future on the world stage was uncertain and greater integration with Europe seemed an attractive direction to go in.
It all keeps coming back to WW2, and that is, of course, the whole reason the EU was first mooted. It started off in the early 1950s with the Schuman Plan, which proposed a Franco-German merging of their coal and steel industries, and led to the formation of the European Coal and Steel Community; which led to the Treaty of Rome in 1958 and the birth of the EU. Britain wasn't even consulted on the plans. The EU was never meant to include Britain.

I have always felt more comfortable as a 'little islander' never felt
akin to the 'main land of Europe!

And the following decade, when Britain made two separate applications to join the club, both applications were vetoed by a hostile France, who argued that Britain had always been a maritime nation with links across the globe and didn't have the same history as the original 6 members (France, Germany, Italy, the Benelux countries).
I'd have to agree with that.

That fits in with my previous comment, so we both can agree on that.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
The U.K joined because of the Bilderberg Group, pure and simple. The E.U was to be the blue print to roll out Unions all over the globe, it's a NWO thing.

More likely some jumped up someone out to make a name for themselves
in the same vein as Tony Blair who is hanging out for a knighthood to elevate
his position yet again... LOL!!

Now, we can't have a Prime Minister unless he/she is a Bilderberger, it's the same throughout the E.U and the U.S (Clinton will win the election).
At the 210 Labour Leadership contest it was nailed on that David Milliband would be voted Leader, he was the rightful heir to take over the New Labour Reins. I then
came across something on an alternative satellite channel and there was a guy on there explaining that David was not Bilderberger and would not be voted Leader and it would have to be wither Ed Milliband or Ed Balls, because they both were. Low and behold, little Brother gives big Brother a bloody nose and defeats him to become Leader.

Now that is where that all falls apart
The mere mention of Ed Balls and Elite in the same sentence!

The E.U is run by a bunch of unelected commissioners, who dictate what is the best for everyone in Europe.
If leaving will be financially damaging to the U.K, please provide the figures and the rationale for the figures. If it's a case of not knowing what the damage could be, if any, then I would suggest leaving would be the sensible thing to do. There's a few Billion to be saved in membership costs alone.

Now there we are in complete agreement.

With regard to the Scottish vote I have 10 Scottish friends 7 of whom voted SNP. Although they voted SNP they all want out of EU. It was decided a couple of weeks ago that just for a bit of fun they would each spend Saturday just gone asking a sample of the Scottish public (1000 each) whether they intended to vote remain or leave. They are from Aberdeen, Glasgow, Edinburgh and Dundee. The results are in and 69% are voting leave, 23% remain, 7% undecided and 1% not voting. I admit it is not scientific but it is a sample of 10,000 Scottish citizens from various parts and appears Nicola Sturgeon has not read the mood of Scotland correctly and could be in for a big shock, lets just hope the rest of UK follow a similar trend!

Just want to put something out there ....

A few years ago Greece was in deep financial trouble and had to
take on the very punitive terms given them by the EU. Then came
the rumours that Greece was about to default its debt.

What happened next was the immigration crisis in Europe, and
money is being thrown at Greece and Turkey who as you all
know has been trying to get into the haloed club of the EU. for a
long time.

Mrs Merkel who somewhat instigated the whole situation when
she openly invited them all in, seems to have lost her voice and
is now openly admitting that she may have been a little hasty.

This situation could well have been deliberately instigated ... for
the resolution to be >>>>

# Greece gets its debt written off...

# UK leaves the EU ...

# And Turkey gets the place of the UK at the table ...

SORTED!!!

a reply to: anxiouswens

Hahaha I'll piss laughing if Scotland votes 'leave' as well, especially so at the rabid SNP supporting members here on ATS!
I'm actually sick of seeing Sturgeon on English TV, 8% of the UK population, why should the other 92% give a # about what she has to say?!

I hate all this talk about Scotland leaving the UK if we vote to Leave the EU. Scotland will have another vote regardless if we Stay or Leave the EU and if the majority of Scottish people want to leave the UK, then they should be allowed that choice.

I also get frustrated by some of the Remainers stating how they want to reform the EU from within. They try to feed this nonsense to the undecideds, hoping to gain their support.

YOU CAN NOT REFORM THE EU. It will get bigger, bossier and more expensive, unless of course it collapses.

And what is this reforming from the inside nonsense anyway?
They want to reform the EU from the within, yet we will get even LESS influence in the EU if we stay than we currently do...

Currently there are 28 member states, so we get 1 vote out of 28 (4%), this will diminish further as more member states join (Turkey for example), and these member states are even less similar to the UK, so there will be even more conflict of interests, making agreements longer and more difficult to achieve.

Now for the EU Parliament. We have 73 MEPs out of 751 (10%). Again similar story as above. More member states will join and we will get LESS influence.


But let's say somehow we do get this almighty power to change the EU from within as you they talk about. That means we have to dictate to the other member states to what the EU laws, regulations and policies should be. Do they really want that?