Satan slandered by Christians, God's loyal servant.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I guess you have never heard of speaking metaphorically. Why don't you Google Lucifer in Judaism so you can learn they don't have a lucifer and also check out the post above with footnotes FROM A BIBLE and then realize you're lacking in Judaic knowledge and speaking from a conformist christian perspective. People who make up false interpretations of Jewish scripture to justify Catholic fallacies are just never going to get it.

Ok ive been drinking abit so forgive my scatterbrain response.

Speaking on Christianity knowledge only (excluding Gnostic knowledge)

To begin, the Devil has never ever been called Lucifer. This is either the King of Tyr or Yeshua, which many threads have been created to prove this, quick internet search would confirm. So lets get that out of the way.

2nd, if an Angel has no free will then how can an Angel rebel? Nor is the Devil referred to as an Angel but a Beast! who has his own Angels at his command. God has Angels, the Devil has Angels.

Angels which are essentially automatons.

The Devil is a God which is confirmed in the Bible, in the Bible there are two Gods. The Devil and Yahweh. The first being the God of the material creation, and Yahweh the Gods of Heaven.

--
3rdly:

The Devil being a friend/servent of God! WTF! Have a read of Revelation which is the all out war between Light and Dark.
aka the legendary war in heaven that has never occurred before, because the Devil was never and has never been expelled from Heaven. That happens at the end of the End of Times. aka Revelation.

If the Devil was a friend of God then why would he be chain for a 1000 years in hell? And have an all out war with Heaven.
Two armies of Angels fighting each other.

Revelation fully speaks of two opposing sides fighting for supremacy and the others domain. The Devil wants heaven and Yahweh wants the material.

--
on a 4th note:

Going by Christian texts only, the Devil 'appears' to have less power than Yahweh. However this is not confirmed, it may very well be that they have the same power level. Yahweh rules the heavens and the Devil rules matter. Neither appears to have any major influence over the others domain.
[This is why I like the Gnostic texts as it explains further this point but as im only concentrating on Christian texts I wont go any further]

--

5th note (talking out loud here)
If they do have the same power level and their power comes from souls/spirit, then it may be that the more souls are in the material universe the more power the Devil has. Meaning the more people that figure out ascension to heaven the less power the Devil has and the more power Yahweh has. The one who has the more power/souls at the end times wins. (again thinking out loud in my drunken moment)

Coomba98

a reply to: coomba98

You are speaking from a lack of knowledge of Judaism, Ha Satan of Job fame has no power other than what's given him by God. He IS an angel and his job is to make humans choose good under temptation to test us. At no point in Judaism is he referred to as a god or an enemy of God. He is seen as a necessary "evil" by Jews.

Christian Satan is no different despite common opinion. He is no god, fallen angel, demon or the prince of demons. He was only helping God even by testing Jesus and possessing Judas so he would betray Jesus.

Jesus crucifixion=salvation so why would Satan help God if he wants humanity to go to hell? The visions in Revelation are all symbolic and when referring to Satan falling from heaven like lightening it is metaphorical to explain his earthly habitation until judgement day. The 2/3 of the stars that he swats out of the sky is also a metaphor for the Sons of God who rebelled and were put in prison until judgement day, apparently Satan even tempts divinities to transgress.

Satan in Judaism is NOT a fallen angel but a necessary force for the greater good.

Caligula,

I may be misinformed or wrong, but in this I do not believe so. (probably regret that when I wake up tomorrow, lol)
I was a Christian from the of 5 to 13, was even in the Boys Brigade which was nothing short of awesome. Read the Bible from cover to cover 3 times in my life, and this does not cover the magnitude of this religion when taking into account Judaism and Gnosticism. (even Islam with their Djinn Devil Azazel/Iblis).

With regards to the Job gospel, where does Yahweh give the Devil power? It all seems like a bet, aka a wager.

'6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them.
7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”
8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”
9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied.
10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land.
11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”
Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.'

Nowhere here does Yahweh give 'power' to the Devil to torture his slave.... sorry worshiper Job.

Also where does it say in the Holy Bible that the Devil is an Angel? His a God!!
Saying he is not a God is disregarding the Christian texts that is the subject of this thread, no?

Apart from being a Beast, the Devil is a Godly Beast.
(Or at least called a Beast by the Light due to his serpent/dragon look)

2 Corinthians 4:4
'Satan, who is the God of this world...'

With regards to Judaism, your OP is talking about Christianity not Judaism man. And if you want to take into account Judaism then what about Gnosticism?

I can do that! Im not perfect but damn im awesome in Abrahamic Religions.
(ok the alcohol is taking hold but still.)

Speaking of the number of Angels that supposedly fell, which was 1/3 not 2/3, it was taken from Revelation 12:3-9:

And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great hred dragon, iwith seven heads and jten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. 4 His tail swept down la third of the stars of heaven and mcast them to the earth.

Where does it say 2/3's?

When you get right down to it, im very knowledgeable on the Abrahamic myths than any other. Next would be Sumerian then Egyptian and Aztec/Mayan. Tho less so the Aztec/Mayan.

Coomba98 -

Edit: Nooooooooooooooooo, this is why you should not post intoxicated.
ok. God says: '12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”'

Fine I shall reply on this tomorrow when I have a clear mind. Stupid brain for using this in my current state. DOH!

a reply to: coomba98

Nowhere here does Yahweh give 'power' to the Devil to torture his slave.... sorry worshiper Job.

Yes he does. Read a little further;

Job 2:2
And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

3 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

4 And Satan answered the Lord, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.

5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.

6 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.

7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

windword.

You obviously replied way after my edit of
'Nooooooooooooo'

But your version Yawheh did not 'give' power to the Devil. I would have stuck with mine to support your argument as Yahweh actually gives power to Satan
So your argument works in my favor.

Woot woot says the drunken one.

Woot woot lol

a reply to: coomba98

Satan was given stipulations to abide buy, not a god, his power is limited to that which he is given PERMISSION. He doesn't even have free will.

a reply to: coomba98

If The Satan was a god then Christianity is a dualist religion with two gods and that is not the case, at all.