British Immam found dead in Rochdale, Greater Manchester with head injuries!

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: angeldoll

But they are still dead. Killing someone is killing someone whether you do it because they are gay, straight, white, black or because you do not like the shirt they are wearing.

It's separated from crimes of passion and crimes of opportunity.

It makes perfect sense by definition of the Law.

a reply to: angeldoll

Who cares? They are still going to prison for murder.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Which is why there is first and second degree murder. That law is already on the books.

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: ScepticScot

I talk from experience after working in my industry for over 20 years and now having over 13 sites across the UK with over 700 staff.

An example - Two male staff both stealing, both been working for over a year, One is gay the other straight. I would be able to dismiss the straight employee without battering an eyelid or worrying about repercussions if their service was under 2 years. However I would have to jump through hoops to dismiss the gay employee to make sure the dismissal was not construed as homophobic. This has happened and unless you have staff and a business then you do not know what you are talking about.

I stand by my statement that if you are a white hetrosexual male in the UK, you have less employment rights than anyone else , because everyone else either plays the "Race Card, Gay Card, Woman Card, Ageism Card etc etc" this is a FACT.

Sorry to burst your bubble!!

If that is the way you or the company interpret the law then then you are the ones being homophobic in this case against the straight employee. There is no employment law that states you have to treat people differently because of their sexuality (in fact in the example you have given the fired employee would have a good case for wrongful dismissal as he has been treated differently on the basis of his sexuality).

If you or your HR department don't understand the law that is hardly the Laws fault.

a reply to: dollukka

I do get that. For whatever reason, some pretty screwed up stuff tends to go down in parks. Everything from prostitution to drugs to sexual assaults to abductions to public sex acts to...murder.

Kind of convenient there is a quick assumption of hate crime. And it serves an agenda, not the actual investigation or community. Who is more likely to kill a moderate, well liked Imam? An average citizen? Your basic criminal? An extremist?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

It's separated from crimes of passion and crimes of opportunity.

It makes perfect sense by definition of the Law.

Perfect sense. If I kill someone in a moment of passion because they have somehow terribly wronged me or a loved one, it is indeed a different animal than killing someone for simply being a type of person I don't like. Or in this case, that I hate. It's all about the motive.

One is more wrong than the other and carries harsher penalties.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

No such thing as a hate crime against a "White Straight Male" in the UK Charlie and you know that's the case. In the same way as you can't be accused of racism against a white person in the UK, so you can call a white person a "Honky B***&^%" in front of a cop and nothing can be done!

However you and I are both in protected groups, you for your religion and me due to my "Fabulous sexuality" My point is everyone no matter whom they are should be treated equally under the law and to give someone a longer prison sentence for murdering "me" as I'm gay than if a straight white guy is murdered is abhorrent, in my opinion!

a reply to: angeldoll

Crimes of passion are second degree murder. Premeditated murder is first degree/capital murder.

At least in the United States.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Which is why there is first and second degree murder. That law is already on the books.

There is no 1st or 2nd Degree murder in the UK.


We have murder and manslaughter.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

We have both here.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Yet that is not how it is under the law. The man has my respect, it is about having protected classes.

Here in the US, you throw a pigs head near the door of a mosque in the middle of the night when no one is there, it is a hate crime, if you bust out every window and do 10's of thousands of dollars worth of damage to a regular baptist church, it is called vandalism.

See the difference? One - while disgusting - is more like littering than even vandalism but could possibly be classified as vandalism I guess, since it entails cleaning it up, the other causes actual damage and is motivated by the same thing (an extreme dislike for the ideology), just targeting a different section of society, is a lesser crime.

This is not equality under the law.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Perhaps you're purposely being a tad slow today!!

I employ a "Employement Law Firm" so I guess they know what they are doing, perhaps you missed that in my post????

I am fully aware of the law, what I said if you wish to take another gander at my post was "People in protected groups when up against the wall, will play the "Race Card", Gay Card" etc etc, nothing to do with the law and the reason it was written, people abuse the system to their own ends!

If you really believe that this does not happen in the UK, then you are living under a rock!!

a reply to: angeldoll

Not to mention, as you already said, that a crime of passion is a one off, a crime of opportunity will always most likely be a one off, a hate crime is a repeatable offence.

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

No such thing as a hate crime against a "White Straight Male" in the UK Charlie and you know that's the case. In the same way as you can't be accused of racism against a white person in the UK, so you can call a white person a "Honky B***&^%" in front of a cop and nothing can be done!

However you and I are both in protected groups, you for your religion and me due to my "Fabulous sexuality"

My point is everyone no matter whom they are should be treated equally under the law and to give someone a longer prison sentence for murdering "me" as I'm gay than if a straight white guy is murdered is abhorrent, in my opinion!

Sorry but you're wrong, hate crime encompass all sexualities not just gay or lesbian, all races not just black or brown, all religions not just Islam, all genders not just trans...

Go and look on the .Gov.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

We don't have First and Second degree murder in the UK, we have just Murder and Manslaughter at the moment and variations of that!

a reply to: flammadraco

You're discussing employment not crime...
I've seen a fair share of treading on egg shells with gay employees in the NHS, some called it the Gay Mafia...

But I know we are in an era where that's where the pendulum swung, I was good at my job so it didn't bother me, in fact apart from my two boys, i preferred the gay guys/gals...

Much more fun and down to earth in work environment.

a reply to: flammadraco

Understood. We have varying degrees of both manslaughter and homicide which is why I feel hate crimes are silly and redundant.

originally posted by: anxiouswens
Could be there was a similar incident reported recently where a female muslim said she had been attacked for wearing an hijab and blamed it on Islamophobia but when CCTV was looked at she had lied!a reply to: flammadraco

www.itv.com...

Yes and the reason we have these fake cases is A) There is about zero persecution of Muslims and so it is hard to maintain the false narrative and B) some really do want there to be riots kickoff and so need to prime them.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Sorry but your wrong - Show me anything where a person in the UK has been fined/imprisoned for being racist against a white person in the UK. Copy and paste from the .gov website where its states you can be done for being racist to a white person, cause I cant find it!!

Again show me the legislation that says hate crime is also against straight people because again I can't find it!

A bit more on this here: www.bbc.co.uk...