Could EDCs be responsible for transgenderism?

As much as it might seem like a politically incorrect notion, has it ever been considered that endocrine-disrupting chemicals such as Bisphenol A and Phthalates could be the culprit to blame for the rapid increase in transgender people over the last few decades? It doesn't seem all that far-fetched when you consider that these chemicals have been leaching into rivers and lakes (via the sewage system) for decades now, and have actually had a marked effect on fish. In the Potomac river, near Washington, D.C., the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has cataloged that up to 80% of the male fish have eggs inside their bodies. This is due to the powerful endocrine-disrupting chemicals found in many plastics and household solvents.

Is it such a stretch to think that this could be why transgenderism is on the rise in humans? I understand that it is a sensitive topic, and any scientist who tries to breach the subject would likely be raked over the coals if he/she suggested that transgender people were basically 'damaged goods', but we also have to remember that science can't always be politically correct and sometimes has to expose the truth no matter how much it hurts.

What are your thoughts, ATS?

We understand, in the broad spectrum of the human body, how everything interacts and effects everything else.

It would not be out of the question to suggest that this is a possibility.

How far fetched is it to suggest that chemicals, or anything taken into the body changes the body for good or ill?

It's a concept many people do not consider, fooled that the FDA is looking out for their general well being, and that people aren't trying to basically make a buck at the expense of ones over-all long-term health.

I was reading an article just the other day that scientists found out why the body attacks the beta cells that turn people into type 1 diabetics. A simple protein change within the cells of the type 1's beta cells causes the immune system to attack and kill the beta cells. So the question is.. Why?

Could your suggestion, also be why those cells are augmented to create such a condition / disease?

Entirely within the realm of possibility.

Science is still young, and hasn't figured things out, as much as our hubris tends to imply otherwise.

originally posted by: Xaphan
As much as it might seem like a politically incorrect notion, has it ever been considered that endocrine-disrupting chemicals such as Bisphenol A and Phthalates could be the culprit to blame for the rapid increase in transgender people over the last few decades? It doesn't seem all that far-fetched when you consider that these chemicals have been leaching into rivers and lakes (via the sewage system) for decades now, and have actually had a marked effect on fish. In the Potomac river, near Washington, D.C., the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has cataloged that up to 80% of the male fish have eggs inside their bodies. This is due to the powerful endocrine-disrupting chemicals found in many plastics and household solvents.

Is it such a stretch to think that this could be why transgenderism is on the rise in humans? I understand that it is a sensitive topic, and any scientist who tries to breach the subject would likely be raked over the coals if he/she suggested that transgender people were basically 'damaged goods', but we also have to remember that science can't always be politically correct and sometimes has to expose the truth no matter how much it hurts.

What are your thoughts, ATS?

Ummm, no.

First of all, there is no rise in "transgenderism". Transgender people have existed throughout all of history across all geographical regions and cultures. What has risen is awareness these people exist and the ability of medicine and science to help them. Attitudes and society have progressed as well and transgender people are less willing to remain hidden and silent or kill themselves in shame and disgrace.

A study published in October 2015 in the Journal of Adolescent Health, basically states that transgender youth seeking care for Gender Dysphoria have the same baseline physiologic parameters as their non-transgender peers or in other words, it isn't hormonal or chemical.

Link to study and downloadable PDF:

Baseline Physiologic and Psychosocial Characteristics of Transgender Youth Seeking Care for Gender Dysphoria

It is not politically incorrect to ask questions but it is foolhardy to make assumptions that all science is biased and politically motivated.

I hope this helps. Go ahead, drink the water. It won't make you transgender.

a reply to: Xaphan

I believe you will find this thread quite informative!!

It goes into great detail about Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals and plenty of references!

MEN: you are being chemically castrated!!

a reply to: Xaphan

Personally I'm very accepting towards transgender people. I think it's pretty cool that we have them. Just for the sake of full disclosure, lol.

But I don't think there is anything wrong with asking that question. It's controversial, sure. I think there have been some sensitive issues that held science back a bit. For example, most drugs are optimized for white males. It's hard to admit that there are any differences between races, even when it comes to biochemistry. (Cholesterol is one example, I think. Not a doctor though, so don't take my word on that.)

But why do you think transsexuality is actually on the rise? Do you have any anything to back that up? It's just that the last five years or so (well a lot longer than that, but especially the last few years) it has become a lot more acceptable in our culture, and more visible in media. So it feels like it is getting more common. Sort of like people worrying about everyone turning gay. Seems to me at this point in time the social factors completely overshadow these biological ones you speculate about.

But again, I think we are putting a lot of crap in our bodies these days, like Bisphenol A for example. I'm sure it must be having some effect. And we might not even be able to imagine what. Like the Romans, who never realized they were getting lead poisoning from their water pipes.

And one of those effects might be an increased number of trans people, who knows. If indeed there are more trans people, which we have no idea of at the moment. The chemicals might be decreasing the number too, for all we know.

I actually wonder if there is something to do with culture also. In the West, it has becoming very acceptable to be a transgender. Not only this, but I have seen on the internet many people saying they are "genderfluid" and so forth and on. I wonder, if it is because people in the West have this luxury of spending a lot of time thinking about themselves and their gender and all this.

I do not want to go on too long about it, but basically there was war in my corner of the world for quite a long time. I was born in 1984, so I growed up in the end of the Soviet Union and the breaking of Yugoslavia. During the 90's, most of us in the Balkans was far more concerned with the war, than we was with thinking about what gender we want to be. We did not have such luxury of focusing on our personal identity, when our countrymen was at war, and all the genocide and terrible things was happening. And in Russia, they did not have a big war in Moscow or anything, but in the 90's sh*t had hit the turbofan, and even though they was not being bombed by NATO, they had to struggle with poverty while their economy was turmoiling. Well, everybody in the Slavic countries had a tough time in the 90's and also now, we still have problems. Survival was most important.

And this has been so for most of history. When you wasn't at war or in economic depression, there was many strict social expectations you have to live according to. If you was offended by something, nobody cared, because they had much more important things to think about.

My point, forgive my length here, is that Western culture is the leading of personal focus. With personal "rights", like how everybody has the "right" to express themselves, and this is considered very important.

I do not say it is a bad thing... it is of course very different from my world... but this focus on self, I wonder if it is causing more people to question things like their gender more and more. No longer are people expected so much to get married and have a family, for example. So they have freedom to experiment, when in the past, and in most of the rest of the world, if you feel that you should have been born a woman, well you suck it up and do what is expected of you, because you are living in a world what does not care for your feelings.

Does this make sense? I worry I have talked to long and not explained my meaning very well. I also do not mean to offend anybody.

a reply to: Xaphan

If it was proven that the chemicals that you have mentioned actually are the cause of transgenderism, would there be a group of people that would oppose taking them out of our food chain?
I am being serious. If you tried to stop it from happenjng, wouldn't you be risking being called a Transgender-phobe?

saying that chemicals are causing humans to be transgender, could be saying that being transgender could be a mental disorder/disease. Many people think it is, and many people are offended by that, and say that its not. Its the same argument for all LGBT issues.
If it can be proven that it is in fact chemicals causing these changes from the norm, then as a species we have to stop using those chemicals. Just my opinion. I would also like to point out that Honestly I could care less if you're LGBT. Get some, you go girl, ect ect. So what, it doesn't hurt me, so why should I try to change who you are or what you are doing.

Now with all that being said, I also feel that it would be more imperative to fix an issue of some kind of physical deformity caused by said chemicals. A transgender person can still work and be a productive member of society, a physically deformed person may not.

There's no big increase in transgendered people.

There is however a change in society whereby more and more people who feel as if they've been born in the wrong body are able to do something about it and actually live as how they feel.

Generally, many societies it's possible to be openly trans now, in a way where 50 years ago they'd have been beaten up and/or killed.


It's just the people who were always there, feeling able to be a bit more open and out about it.

a reply to: Xaphan

I would be very surprised if these various endocrine-disrupters were NOT having an effect on the population. And it's not just the EDCs you've already mentioned, but the synthetic hormones being prescribed like candy for various reasons, and being leached into our water. We know, for example, that excess estrogen can cause breast cancer and other conditions and diseases, many life threatening. I learned the hard way, when my daughter was having serious health issues due to excess estrogen. (I wrote a thread on it once, and I'll dig it up if you'd like to read the responses sometime.)

Medical science has been making some interesting discoveries, and it would seem that timing of exposure to the EDCs is important -- such as a particular point in gestation, or puberty, etc. And then there are the Guevedoces... little girls for all intents and purposes until they grow a penis at puberty... very fascinating.

I don't know to what extent these synthetic hormones and other EDCs may or may not "cause" transgenderism, but it does seem that gender is not as set in stone as we might have once believed.

I am concerned for transgender people who take synthetic hormones, for the same reason I worry about anyone taking synthetic hormones - whether for birth control, or hormone replacement therapy, or whatever. We know they can cause serious health issues for everyone.

a reply to: Helicopter

Does this make sense? I worry I have talked to long and not explained my meaning very well. I also do not mean to offend anybody.

It makes a lot of sense, you have explained your thoughts very well, and you were very respectful -- not rude or offensive at all. It is a sensitive subject though, in large part because it has been so politicized.

I think there may be some truth in your words, for some transgender people, but I doubt there is just one reason or cause for everyone. I also believe that sexist attitudes -- assigning certain clothing or roles to certain genders -- is a contributory factor. In my experience and seldom humble opinion, I think gender is whatever we make of it, and that too much of how we define gender is superficial and petty. I really don't care what people wear. I am a woman, but I wear jeans and T-shirts and tennies more than dresses. I don't care if men wear dresses or bikinis or whatever. I don't "get it," but I don't "get" why women wear makeup either! I'm happy to let people be who they are and do what they want to do and wear what they want to wear.

If you're not hurting anyone, more power to ya!

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Xaphan

If it was proven that the chemicals that you have mentioned actually are the cause of transgenderism, would there be a group of people that would oppose taking them out of our food chain?
I am being serious. If you tried to stop it from happenjng, wouldn't you be risking being called a Transgender-phobe?

Yes... I know from experience!

I blame it on the politicization of what should simply be a health issue. Sometimes I wonder if the whole transgender issue hasn't been blown up to the extent it has to simply demonize anyone who would dare demand that Big Ag and Big Pharma (and others) stop polluting our water and food and bodies!!! Instead of arguing about the pollution of our world, we're arguing about what people can wear. Instead of arguing about the adverse effects of hormone therapy, we're arguing about which bathrooms people can use.

Transgender people are real, with real feelings and wants and needs, just like anyone, but their needs and best interests are being hijacked and overshadowed by corporate interests.

a reply to: Freija

The water might not make you transgender, but you definitely should not drink it; it has loads of crazy stuff in it. example fluoride and chlorine. even lead in flint.

From my studies, I am pretty sure that endocrine disruptors and extrogenic hormones in foods could be related to the increase in transgender people. There is probably some genetics that is involved in the breakdown of these things that could be involved too.

But I have known quite a few guys who were less full of testosterone and woman who had qualities associated with over production of testosterone over the years. They usually hooked up with a person of the opposite sex who were opposite of them. I guess it being more acceptable in society that is making the switch

originally posted by: Xaphan
As much as it might seem like a politically incorrect notion, has it ever been considered that endocrine-disrupting chemicals such as Bisphenol A and Phthalates could be the culprit to blame for the rapid increase in transgender people over the last few decades? It doesn't seem all that far-fetched when you consider that these chemicals have been leaching into rivers and lakes (via the sewage system) for decades now, and have actually had a marked effect on fish. In the Potomac river, near Washington, D.C., the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has cataloged that up to 80% of the male fish have eggs inside their bodies. This is due to the powerful endocrine-disrupting chemicals found in many plastics and household solvents.

Is it such a stretch to think that this could be why transgenderism is on the rise in humans? I understand that it is a sensitive topic, and any scientist who tries to breach the subject would likely be raked over the coals if he/she suggested that transgender people were basically 'damaged goods', but we also have to remember that science can't always be politically correct and sometimes has to expose the truth no matter how much it hurts.

What are your thoughts, ATS?

I've thought this for a while now. Not only the increase of transgenderism but also the overall feminizing of men in general. Also situations like this www.theguardian.com... communities where much less males are born than females. Or in the case of some species of frogs where the chemicals are causing the males to change into females.

originally posted by: butcherguy
If it was proven that the chemicals that you have mentioned actually are the cause of transgenderism, would there be a group of people that would oppose taking them out of our food chain?

Just curious who you think this "group of people" would be or what nefarious organization would want people to be transgender? That really makes no sense. Who would wish something like this on anyone? Transgender people don't "want" to be transgender any more than you "want" to be right-handed, have blue eyes or be heterosexual and in some cases is something people very much don't want to be, have trouble accepting and struggle against for a good part of their lives to resist or come to terms with.

Keep in mind, gender is one of the core foundations personality is based on. A person's internal sense of how they perceive their own gender, their gender identity, establishes in early childhood and like sexuality is resistant to change. This can explain why transgender people don't want to be "cured" in the conventional sense. Would you like to be stripped of your identity or told you are not really who you know yourself to be? Who would?

originally posted by: Boadicea
I don't know to what extent these synthetic hormones and other EDCs may or may not "cause" transgenderism, but it does seem that gender is not as set in stone as we might have once believed...I am concerned for transgender people who take synthetic hormones...

We also once believed the earth was flat and that the planets and stars revolved around it. We once believed a multitude of things we no longer believe or know to be true. Many aspects of what we know as gender are social and cultural constructs and as humanity progresses and as a society we evolve, we do realize that gender is a spectrum rather than a black or white, either/or binary so yes, things are not set in stone as we might have once believed. It is the youth of today that are on the forefront of questioning or rejecting these social paradigms or conventions and why we now see terms like gender fluid, gender non-conforming, gender expansive, bi-gender, genderqueer, agender, etc.

The risks of HRT and other medical interventions for gender dysphoric transgender people are not discounted but the prospective outcomes without these therapies are far worse by comparison. Whatever "serious health issues" you may perceive are typically far less severe than the alternative of doing nothing. Incidentally, modern HRT regimes utilize bio-identical hormones monitored by endocrinologists and other medical professionals to be within the normal ranges for natal females and males.

originally posted by: Boadicea
It makes a lot of sense, you have explained your thoughts very well, and you were very respectful -- not rude or offensive at all. It is a sensitive subject though, in large part because it has been so politicized.

Respectful discussion and inquisitive open minds are what it takes for people to learn about these things. What hasn't become politicized or isn't polarizing these days? Transgender and gender non-conforming people as a whole have been marginalized and maligned and if this issue has become politicized it is because they just want people to shut the hell up and let them be who they are without being looked upon as aberrations suffering from mental illness.

originally posted by: Boadicea
I think there may be some truth in your words, for some transgender people, but I doubt there is just one reason or cause for everyone. I also believe that sexist attitudes -- assigning certain clothing or roles to certain genders -- is a contributory factor. In my experience and seldom humble opinion, I think gender is whatever we make of it, and that too much of how we define gender is superficial and petty. I really don't care what people wear. I am a woman, but I wear jeans and T-shirts and tennies more than dresses. I don't care if men wear dresses or bikinis or whatever. I don't "get it," but I don't "get" why women wear makeup either! I'm happy to let people be who they are and do what they want to do and wear what they want to wear.

What you are describing here are the social aspects of gender, gender expression and the societal expectations of gender roles. What many people fail to realize when discussing the transgender umbrella is that being trans is a spectrum and the experience and expression of it is unique to each individual. Gender Dysphoria can be deconstructed into various components such as a social dysphoria of being perceived outwardly as the wrong gender being in opposition to one's internal sense of self and/or a physical dysphoria of a feeling of "being in the wrong body". Gender Dysphoria is also experienced in degrees - sometimes mildly annoying and sometimes crushing and immobilizing. Not all people considered transgender are gender dysphoric nor do all transgender people feel they are in the wrong body that needs to be chemically or surgically changed. Also keep in mind that being transgender also happens to those assigned female at birth.

Much of how we define gender is "superficial and petty", expressed (or repressed) to meet cultural expectations of behavior and appearance but as you have noted as a woman that doesn't subscribe to the usual social trappings of femininity, i.e. wearing dresses and make-up etc., you nevertheless know what you are inside. This internal knowledge of self or what you know yourself to be is your gender identity regardless of how you express it outwardly. Even if you wore overalls, work boots and had a buzz haircut, wouldn't you still know yourself to be a woman? Even if you had your ovaries and uterus removed or had a medical condition that prevented you from having sex or children, wouldn't you still know you were a woman? Why or where does this come from? If you had a medical condition that caused your body to produce exceptional amounts of testosterone, your voice deepened and you grew a beard, you would likely be highly distressed and be strongly driven to "fix it". Would you want to transition to living as a man or correct the physical anomalies? This incongruence between your body and your mind and sense of self defines Gender Dysphoria and as noted, is experienced in levels of intensity. Maybe you would like being a dude? I wouldn't. Does this help explain the needs and feelings of some transgender people?

originally posted by: Boadicea
I blame it on the politicization of what should simply be a health issue. Sometimes I wonder if the whole transgender issue hasn't been blown up to the extent it has to simply demonize anyone who would dare demand that Big Ag and Big Pharma (and others) stop polluting our water and food and bodies!!!

If Big Ag and Big Pharma and pollution of our food and water was found to be the cause of being transgender don't you think there would be massive public outcry and how does this explain being transgender (or homosexual) before these entities were factors? I think you have it backwards saying that the best interests and needs of transgender people are being hijacked by corporate interests. The push is coming from the opposite direction; from transgender people themselves.

a reply to: Helicopter

Yes, it does. Those things you mention that you only have time to think about because you basically live in a fat, mostly happy society where you can afford to sit around and navel gaze until you make yourself miserable?

We call them first world problems.

a reply to: Freija

Just curious who you think this "group of people" would be or what nefarious organization would want people to be transgender?

I have no idea.
My question was.. 'would there be a group of people?'
Do you think that people wanting the chemicals out of our food chain might be called out because they oppose the existence of more transgender people?
I am asking an honest question. You act as if I am opposing trangenders, and I am doing nothing of the sort.

originally posted by: butcherguy
My question was.. 'would there be a group of people?'
Do you think that people wanting the chemicals out of our food chain might be called out because they oppose the existence of more transgender people?
I am asking an honest question.

Well, since there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that chemicals in the food chain are causing people to be transgender, I hardly think calling for their removal has anything at all to do with opposing or supporting the existence of transgender people. Heck, I can't think of anybody that wouldn't want to see these things rectified.

I don't deny for a second that we put a lot of crap in our bodies, antibiotics and hormones from cattle, EDC's or toxins from plastics, manufacturing or the environment or that there are other things that may affect our endocrine systems or cause untoward physical problems or maladies like high fructose corn syrup and the general chemical stew we ingest every day but there is no evidence or link or even much suspicion that these factors have anything to do at all with being transgender or transsexual or lesbian or gay.

You act as if I am opposing trangenders, and I am doing nothing of the sort.

I apologize if I came across that way. I did take your post as being somewhat snarky or conspiratorial in nature by thinking there is some hidden agenda or nefarious organization trying to turn the world queer or that if such a thing existed, people would be considered transphobic by calling it out. Hell, everyone should be concerned about clean water and untainted food supplies. I can't imagine anyone doesn't think this would be a good idea or want exogenous factors affecting health removed from our food or environment.

I'll again note that most transgender people or at least the ones that I've ever known about or met would definitely rather not be transgender if given a choice. It is not something people do to be trendy or for fun and the last thing anyone would wish upon someone else.

I'll also take this opportunity to point out that if you take the typical heterosexual male and castrate them either chemically or surgically OR if you even inject them with female hormones, it still isn't going to make them transgender. It just doesn't work that way.

a reply to: Freija

No apology necessary. It was probably just the way that I took it, you know how it is very reading vs talking to someone.