Man tests new transgender protections by undressing in women's locker room- WA st.

a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

No, you're not missing anything. America is a little too "Saudi Arabia-ish" when it comes to things like this. A little behind the times, so to speak.

a reply to: kaylaluv

lol probs but in a good way. srry i miss read, then i guess she goes in the girls room or they gotta get a tranz bathroom which sounds ridiculous to me. my advice to the girls is change fast and if she harasses you tell a teacher. Its a weird situation for sure.

a reply to: butcherguy

I meant with in the law, but your point is valid. Many laws are unjust for sure and we should rebel against them. I just think the transgender thing is kind of silly. I much rather focus on legalizing pot for sure

a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

It does seem to be mainly an American issue - can't remember the last time anywhere in Europe it wasn't unisex with private cubicles for changing and communal (clothed) showers.

There was even a thread because they got an outside urinal the other day.

The US does seem to have strange hang ups regarding the fairer sex - breast feeding the most natural thing in the world is also a big deal over there and who can forget all the nipplegates nonsense over the years.

It's strange the way different countries and cultures around the world get all outraged by things the majority of the rest of our planet have no problem.

Its an evolving world, as it should be.

Why does there always have to be a$$hats who try and ruin it?

a reply to: C84K2

I think this is absolutely hilarious. The absolute stupidity of it all.

a reply to: Abysha

I agree with this completely. Let's do away with gender specific bathrooms altogether.

originally posted by: Helicopter
If you have the vagine, use the women's toilettes.

If you have the kuraц, use the men's toilettes.

I have never ever met a transgender person, so I have no damn idea, but this one time in Kazakhstan, my friend was in the women's banya, and there was this women there, she didn't have the kuraц but she had a beard... nobody cared. But if she had the kuraц, she, or he whatever, would have been tossed away outside, like that.

I mean, if you have a male body I don't think it matters if you have a female brain, you should use the men's, because you must think of the women, who will not like a kuraц in their toilette. Because of course, there is some men who might use a pervy advantage here. Precautions are sometimes needed.

And seperate trans toilettes... well this is nice idea, but is also of great cost for not many trans people. Damn, this is a difficult problem!

Why can't there be unisex, and male and female facilities?

originally posted by: seaswine
This is dangerous if the law is that lenient. True, honest to goodness trans people that feel the need to change in X or Y area... Fine by me to be honest.

But if the law's leniency can be abused by say, teenage boys who wanna see some female anatomy and not be punished, legislators need to figure something out so a loophole cannot be taken advantage of.

Here's the thing though ... what do you do about it? Do you ask them to show their papers certifying they reject reality and substitute their own? That opens up a whole new can of discrimination worms. No one who is anatomically correct and correctly identifying would also have to show papers.

This is where we get back to the rights of business owners. If I want to open a place and simply have unisex facilities where you can pick and choose where you want to change, that's one me, but I have to take all the possible legal fallout it entails.

If I want to have two changing rooms and tell people they have to go into the one that matches their current anatomy, again, that should be my right as the business owner.

If I want two changing rooms divided by anatomy and a third, smaller one for people who aren't comfortable with physical reality, then again, my choice.

Let the market decide.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
Why can't there be unisex, and male and female facilities?

... because the unisex facility apparently discriminates.

If the unisex facility discriminates though, then I have no idea why a gendered facility doesn't also discriminate.

a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

In America, if an underage girl sees a penis, it's crime. If an underage boy sees a boob, it's crime.

I mean, not technically but that's the accepted norm. Sexuality is so strange in this country. In grocery stores lately there's a piece of plastic placed in front of a magazine called 'Cosmopolitan' that blocks the word 'sex' on the side of the picture but shows the woman on the cover. Here, found an article:

The retailers’ moves come in response to a campaign by the advocacy group, the National Center on Sexual Exploitation, to get stores to wrap Cosmo magazines in sleeves or covers, in the way pornographic magazines are covered.

I know it's not exactly the topic at hand, but it's something in the same vein.

a reply to: C84K2

If there are loopholes, then the person who left them there should be fired, then investigated, in that order. Sabotaging legislation meant to protect minorities, so that those legislative items can be used to lever public opinion against that minority, is an old trick, and one which needs crushing, breaking down, and those doing it need to be tarred, feathered, and kicked out of town.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I wondered about that. It is bound to happen. As I see it...the state is putting these new laws into effect. Then it boils down to the company, or employees to determine, or enforce the law, if someone is being true, or dishonest about how they identify. How can an employee determine that? Some gyms, or pools, or wherever the locker room may be located, have younger teens working there, especially at pools during summer.

Where does the protection of innocent people come into play? There are loopholes. I brought this up because I wasn't aware of any other laws like this in the US. Maybe there are, as in WA, they came out quietly, so maybe another state has done it quietly as well, idk. Maybe there's another state that has experience with this, or if WA is the groundbreaker. But if anyone falls victim to a sexual assault in the process, what happens? ***Will it fall on the company for not being able to protect their own customers? That's what I think will happen, but idk.***

What if the employee does not agree with the new laws? Will they be fired? If an employee at a certain gym or pool is harsher, or watches with a closer eye, then that gym or pool will be known around the transgender community as being unfriendly. It might affect business.

There's a lot of things that need to be worked out.

To build 3rd or 4th bathroom/locker room options will take forever. It would have to be required in every new building that is built, and for building as they are now, that cost would be astronomical. It would have to be the family option, but if there is no family option, the cost to put one in every bathroom/locker room in the state, that wont happen. Its not feasible as an option I don't think.

I've used unisex public bathrooms (commonly called family bathrooms where I've used them) and it's not a big deal by any means. The gender of the person taking a leak or going #2 in the next stall is not of any concern to me.

Neither is the gender of the person showering in a nearby stall. For god's sake America, grow up. And quit perpetuating this myth that all men are sex-crazed predators, it's insulting (and I'm not even male!)

originally posted by: Seiko
I feel society could really benefit by moving away from our concepts of gender. If we stop caring about what gender a person is or which room they use this argument can become invalid. If you stop acting like seeing someone naked is traumatizing and somehow detrimental we might actually move past the need to worry about these things.

I know the story is about a locker room, but it is a public one. If you're uncomfortable with people undressing near you please do not use public facilities. I used a co-gendered bathroom in an Oregon coffee house years ago and I survived it.

When you truly stop judging people on gender or sex or other classifications things like this just don't matter anymore. I realize the law in Washington isn't actually accomplishing this though.

I hope you realize you have just thwarted the reason for transgender people to use facilities they identify with. If it doesn't matter then we need no new policies.


On topic:

From OP link:

One day after Christmas, Washington state quietly adopted a set of new policies regarding transgender individuals using sex-specific facilities. The rules, adopted by the state Human Rights Commission, make it illegal for business owners to limit sex-specific facilities such as bathrooms, showers, and locker rooms to persons with the anatomical parts of one sex.

“To my knowledge, this is the first time in the country that there’s been a statewide effort to mandate all public accommodations cooperate with the gender identity concept that somebody declares,” Joseph Backholm, executive director of the Family Policy Institute of Washington, told The Daily Signal.

“This is the next step in this war on gender.”

The rules, which a state legislator told The Daily Signal took effect on Dec. 26, apply to businesses with eight or more employees. They also dictate that schools should “allow students to use the restroom that is consistent with their gender identity” and in most cases, give transgender students “access to the locker room that corresponds to their gender identity.”

That's the most non policy 'policy' I've ever seen. Basically, use whatever facility you feel like using. I'm sorry but the above is not policy and doesn't address the issues of gender specific facilities. Basically, take the signs off the doors. Which ever has the shortest line, walk in and take care of business.

The lockers, that's another issue. I don't know how this could be handled. Male and female alike in the school age are sensitive to privacy of their bodies.

I can't imagine going to work out in the gym, going to shower and having a member of the opposite in the dressing room like it was nothing. It would take some getting used to. Remember when the male football players screamed about the female reporters in their locker room?

I know that's not a transgender example but that's the way it will be going.

originally posted by: StoutBroux
Basically, use whatever facility you feel like using...Basically, take the signs off the doors. Which ever has the shortest line, walk in and take care of business.

I feel like this should just be the norm. Reading some of the text of the policy that sounds like what they were aiming for, just take the signs off the door and go do your business. It looks like an attempt to stop the drama before it started. Men's facilities are equal to women's facilities so there's no need for a third bathroom for transgender individuals and there's no confusion when a trans man walks into the women's bathroom.

Store's have been catching up to putting baby-changing stations in men's bathrooms, so there's that. It all falls into that weird way Americans treat sexuality; grown men are perverts and little girls might see a penis. So why change?

PC culture has made the US collectively lose all common sense......

(grabs popcorn to watch it all blow up in the PC crowds faces)

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

The true irony here is that conservatives are fulfilling their own prophecy. I've been reading quite a few comments and Tweets from conservatives, goading each other (men) into going into the women's restrooms to prove a point.

So... their prediction that men will be going into women's spaces if trans-inclusive legislation passes is actually true. It's allowing conservative trolls to go into women's rooms. We should have known after Huckabee even said he would totally do that. This whole time these conservatives have just been protecting us from them.

Fascinating.

a reply to: Abysha

The true irony here is that conservatives are fulfilling their own prophecy. I've been reading quite a few comments and Tweets from conservatives, goading each other (men) into going into the women's restrooms to prove a point.

how do you know they are conservatives? Why are you labeling people? How do you know they dont identify as something else?

Isnt this whole thing about not putting labels on people and things being fluid?

Irony