Why some people believe in God and in the bible and others do not.

originally posted by: OldMason
People accept the bible, and the Koran because they want (and believe in) eternal life. Is it all a myth? Impossible to say.
a reply to: DeathSlayer

More like eternal fear of death. It's actually quite pathetic.

a reply to: Esoterotica

Yea, I'd say the idea of an afterlife sprung up from humans' fear of death and death being the finality of themselves. It's just been spun by the religious into them "wanting eternal life".

MY Favorite parts of the Bible is when
God is talking to himself about himself and calling too himself
and saying Father. and pleading to himself
of forgiving us for we do not know what we do !

Its Just a Delusional, Poor Carpenter ..

That People made him out more then he was..

with Multiple Personality Issues !


Even Worse a GOD with Multiple Personality Issues!
that likes Killing what he creates..in his own image
then later ...
Loving them so they can be be Saved!

Nah this god YHWH cant be trusted..

Right?

a Book that consistently contradicts its self !


Fear god : Matthew 10:28
Love God : Matthew 22:37

yeah OK..


I think We need a New
Programmer / Operator... and a Upgrade of SIM Earth

we need a different Kevin Flynn ..

in these parts of the Universe.. Galaxy!

End of Line ::: ( Rant )

Just Wondering when this will come!

LOL

was thinking about it !

Zardoz: Zardoz speaks to you, His chosen ones.

Exterminators: We are the chosen ones!

Zardoz: You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!

Exterminators: The Gun is good!

Zardoz: The Penis is evil! The Penis shoots Seeds, and makes new Life to poison the Earth with a plague of men, as once it was. But the Gun shoots Death and purifies the Earth of the filth of Brutals. Go forth, and kill! Zardoz has spoken.
www.imdb.com...



The Fundamentalist is evil! The Fundamentalist warps Minds, and makes new Zombies to poison the Earth with a plague of men, as once it was. But the WMDS annihilates with Death and purifies the Earth of the filth of Zealots. Go forth, and kill! Your True Leader has spoken.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

In my experience most religious people think heaven is just a better weather version of earth & they'll have an unlimited supply of materialism. Makes sense though, heaven would be terribly boring without smart phones & dancing with the stars.

/wrist

Oh look, the chosen one came to advise us!

What I don't understand is - god created humans to be born, live on the earth, die, then depending on how they lived either live for eternity in heaven or burn for eternity in hell. Heaven was created by god, hell was created by satan (or Lucifer, or the devil, etc) - who was created god. God gives the humans free will - because he doesn't want them to be puppets (what fun would that be). However when the humans don't do what he wants, he punishes them.
Wouldn't it have been easier to just not give humans the capacity to do the things that god didn't want them doing? Also why bother with the whole living on earth part - why not just bypass that and just create heaven and have everyone live in eternal bliss. It would have saved a lot of headache for god. Since god is supposed to be all knowing and all wise - he had to have seen this coming.
Another question I have often wondered is - since almost all other animals (lions, sharks, hawks, etc) kill each other, steal from each other, have sex with whomever they want and as far as I can tell don't worship god - wouldn't they all go to hell when they die? Or is it just humans that have to follow the 10 commandments - and if so why would all the other animals get a free pass I thought humans were gods favorite creation?

a reply to: Esoterotica

I liked heaven in the comic book Johnny the Homicidal Maniac. Everyone just sat around in a chair and looked content. That is until they were disturbed. Then they got angry and blew each other's heads up with their minds.

Oh and everyone who went to hell just rebuilt the materialism society we have on Earth, and the devil just sat back and watched because he realized that humans are much better at being harmful and evil to each other than he was.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

For the first time I also realized that if Jesus really did come back, I was in big trouble. At the end of the book was a prayer on how to receive Christ, which I did. 

Better get good with the mob boss or he'll break your legs!...

How a book of magic, magical creatures, rape, insest, murder, infanticide and goat herders can be considered to be literally true is the real question. The account given in the OP for why someone would believe is just as fake and fictitious.

This is why no-one really takes any of it seriously even theists. If they did they wouldn't make up such obvious drivel.

I think the Lord of the Rings, would make a good bible too!

originally posted by: wisvol
a reply to: spygeek

Well at least I found someone who will tell me exactly how things are, how nice of you.

*shrug*
you're welcome?

Of course you wouldn't call the genesis creation myth biogenesis; God is not a biological organism. In this context, genesis alone would mean simply the creation of life from nothing.. perhaps 'theogenesis' is more appropriate.

For someone able to see blue for a feeling and a believer for an atheist as you heavily insisted upon, it's interesting that you would say that.

I have insisted nothing, only tried to explain what was intended to be meant by the comment.

Theogenesis is nor more appropriate at all because genesis is a word coined for that particular theory. Of course, one could argue that it is not a theory, yet the theo in theogenesis is actually the theo in theory.

Again you are arguing from etymology. Sure, the root of the word theory does have theistic relevance, but today it is more associated with any kind thought or theoretical investigation.

The root of the term "genesis" predates the story of creation in the bible, and comes from the latin word for "generation". Latin translators used the term, rendering the Hebrew "beresh1th", literally meaning, "in the beginning," which was the first word of the book, it as its title.

The root of the latin "genesis" is related to the greek "gignesthai", which means "to be born".

Genesis was not coined for any theory, and the creation myth is not a theory. My suggestion of "theogenesis" was intended to bring the concept into line with abiogenesis and biogenesis. My intended meaning was "God forming life". In the context of abiogenesis vs. biogenesis vs. genesis, the latter term would simply imply "life formed", without a defining prefix of what formed the life.

It is a common misconception oft repeated that education is derived from this, but it most certainly is not.

Interesting how you claim things that go against truth. A pattern maybe.

*shurg*

ironic claim. the root of "education" is not "ex ducere", it is "educare". would you like a reference?

See the 'a' in "educate"? That precludes a 'ducere' latin root. This is basic level etymology.

Studies have repeatedly found that the more degrees and higher the level of education of a person has, the less likely they are to hold a strong religious conviction, and the more likely it is that they will be agnostic or atheistic.

I know what I'll do: try a thought experiment. Everybody likes those.

Not a lot of people believed in wireless oversea communication in 1802. Even the doctors of physics.

Now if for some reason wireless overseas communication becomes a thing of the past, in any kind of mad max story, the only ones knowing that it has in fact been seen would be those who give credence of the stories passed down to them. Are they ignorant fools who should be educated about the mythological nature of these claims?

Well, they would have to show through scientific theory that it was indeed possible. If stories were passed down of wireless global communication, then one would hope the necessary knowledge of physics and electrical would be passed down too. Still, even in the absence of this knowledge, there is nothing to prevent the stories being investigated and the required knowledge being inferred or rediscovered.

As far as I am aware, there was never any such "physical or engineering knowledge" of God to be passed down in the first place.

I wouldn't call anyone an ignorant fool because they believe in mythology.

You clearly know very little about what material science says about the origin of the universe, and life itself.

Here we go again. Material science says all things are one at the micro and macro level, just energy and spacetime usually sphering up and revolving around spheres, and in the middle is the trees, the birds and the people, who may or may not have been generated spontaneously from soup.

(No! material science says something else!) Well sure it does bud, anything you observe for yourself and reproduce until you draw a conclusion unchallenged by other reproducible experiment is part of that.)

So what is the issue here?

As for the account of genesis interesting that you would bring up a piece of it.
If you think I distort evolution by calling it soup to monkey, let's again be reminded that the book you quote from may very well have been at some point during the transmission to you handled by the sort of people who claim that educare is not a prefixed construct of ducere, a verifiable linguistic science point, and that makes for all sorts of interesting results.

again, educAtion is derived from educAre. this is basic etymology. yes, the latin 'educare' and 'ducere' do have somewhat related or similar meanings, but 'educare' is where the english 'educate' comes from, or more specifically, ' educatus'.

Did God come from nothing/something? Did God not create the universe from nothing/something spontaneously, as described in the bible? It's the same stretch.

First question is great: God doesn't seem like a effect but rather a cause, not coming from & c.
This sharply contrasts with theories claiming the start of spacetime as spontaneous.

The old argument from first cause is fallacious.

Second is not: you misuse the concept of spontaneity, then say it is described in the bible, which it isn't.
Definitely not the same stretch, and a key point of understanding.

1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light...

sounds pretty spontaneous to me..

spontaneous
spɒnˈteɪnɪəs
adjective
1. performed or occurring as a result of a sudden impulse or inclination and without premeditation or external stimulus.

Nowhere in the bible is God shown to have premeditated the creation of the universe. Nowhere is it explained why and how He did it. All of a sudden, He created the heavens and the Earth, without definable motivation or external prodding. He did it spontaneously, and then appears to simply make everything up as He goes along..

Physical evidence would include all of physical evidence.

Such as?

Experimental evidence requires genesis, such as programmatic genesis, for lack of understanding of grammatic genesis.
Some do say this however, and I wish them the best until they say their science contradicts this, because frankly I would love to see that, because it would change some of my life choices quite drastically.

We have experimental evidence of abiogenesis, which is a form of programmatic genesis. 'Theistic-genesis' is indescribable by natural processes and untestable.

I fear we are getting way off topic and derailing the thread Wisvol, would you like to continue this discussion privately?

a reply to: spygeek

The root of the term "genesis" predates the story of creation in the bible, and comes from the latin word for "generation".
(...)
The latin root of "genesis" is related to the greek "gignesthai", which means "to be born".

A study of the origin of the Greek alpha beta will clarify this for you.

ironic claim. the root of "education" is not "ex ducere", it is "educare". would you like a reference?
See the 'a' in "educate"? That precludes a 'ducere' latin root. This is basic level etymology.
(...)
again, educAtion is derived from educAre. this is basic etymology. yes, the latin 'educare' and 'ducere' do have somewhat related or similar meanings, but 'educare' is where the english educate comes from.

Related rather than similar, yes. Again, don't take my word on that. No preclusion on vowel change, there are examples of in English too, think "Anglophone" and "English".

The old argument from first cause is fallacious.

I don't know what you are referring to, or why you would bring a fallacious argument.

We have experimental evidence of abiogenesis, which is a form of programmatic genesis. 'Theistic-genesis' is untestable.

Yet it seems to me that grammatic genesis is a prerequisite for programmatic genesis in the same way creation is one to procreation.

I fear we are getting way off topic and derailing the thread Wisvol, would you like to continue this discussion privately?

I accept.

I saw God once....

He was in Walmart at 2am wearing spandex, flip flops and a purple wig.


My life was changed forever in a single instance that can not be denied to the true believers.

originally posted by: drevill
a reply to: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing

There is no correlation,

Off the top of my head, Newton was one highly intelligent chap.

In 2009 a survey of scientists found 33% beloved in God and an addition 18% in some other higher spirit/power

You can argue Einstein

Pascal
Galileo
Marconi
Kepler

The list goes on

Sorry but there is a correlation - as others have pointed out (see spygeek's post ).

My point was, as every good skeptic will tell you, correlation does not equal causation.

a reply to: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing
I know there are plenty of smart people who believe in Abrianic fairy tails. Heck, I was even fooled for many years!
I was in fact pointing out the correlation between higher intelligence and less religiosity.

a reply to: flyingfish

I know you were, but I do not think that the correlation gives us the whole story, or allow us to conclude that "Ok, well only the dumb people believe in the sky fairy".

So if a voice claiming to be God tells you to kill your neighbor and his family, would you do it without question?

In my opinion, this is the best question to ask anyone who believes in God as their heavenly father and Jesus as their personal savior.

There is precedent in the bible of this happening, so it's a valid question that deserves an answer. If someone feels they have been chosen by God, then they'd have to answer truthfully.

The kind of people who kill their neighbour and family without question after hearing voices do this whether or not they believe in the big bang theory.

The point of God, or Magic Fairy, or what ever the # you call it, is to be able to say to those who hear the voices, along with your congressman, president, king, and DMV person:

"Thanks for your opinion, not interested. Already have a boss."

Furthermore, said boss is not in today.

The best attribute of any boss.

People are hard to govern. The rulers interfere with too much. That is why people are hard to govern. [Tao Te Ching chapter 75]

originally posted by: grahag
So if a voice claiming to be God tells you to kill your neighbor and his family, would you do it without question?

In my opinion, this is the best question to ask anyone who believes in God as their heavenly father and Jesus as their personal savior.

There is precedent in the bible of this happening, so it's a valid question that deserves an answer. If someone feels they have been chosen by God, then they'd have to answer truthfully.

Not that I see myself as chosen by God, only saved by Grace through faith which is not from myself, but I will answer you.

As a Spirit filled believer, you have to discern the Spirit. Determine, if you will, if what you hear is from God or not, and you check that, against the Word of God and the life and teachings of Jesus. Jesus said to love your neighbor and all such manner of teaching. If you hear a voice saying kill your neighbor you know with all certainty that this spirit is not from God and you ask for Jesus' help to give you peace and protect you from the evil.

Just because the Holy Spirit guides us, does not mean we loose our ability for rational thought- and the word tells us to discern the spirit to know if it comes from God.

1 John 4:1 - Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God.

If anyone does not know, they can go to the elders of the church - provided they attend a God centered church - and ask for help, and if anyone needs help of the medical variety, they elders will help them get that help also. Jesus never killed anyone, and asks only that we follow Him, and the Holy Spirit, proceeds from the same place Jesus does.

Hopefully that answers your question.