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Money doesn't corrupt people, people corrupt people.

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posted on Feb, 15 2016 @ 04:40 PM
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Hi

Throughout my research through various discussion boards etc I have continually met the discussion about the corruption that money creates.
It's through these discussions that I have come to conclude that the idea of corruption and greed is inevitable in a monetary based system. Furthermore the reality that we have helped create ensures that even without money, corruption will prevail.

Therefore I would like to discuss the possibilities for a future where the concept of greed and corruption will be void. How would this world function with the idea of supply and demand? Would cash be replaced with another form of bartering?

Basically is there any possible way for humanity to evolve to a place beyond looking after the self. Would a world survive if everyone's best efforts were put to caring/working/providing for others?




posted on Feb, 15 2016 @ 04:49 PM
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a reply to: InMyShell

Maybe PEOPLE corrupted MONEY.
It's basically an innocuous instrument for successful barter and exchange of necessities.



posted on Feb, 15 2016 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: InMyShell

People want utopia. It sounds awesome on paper. Problem is that is just not how humans are wired. There will always be someone bigger, stronger, and smarter who will take advantage of people who are smaller, weaker, and dumber.

Utopia is unattainable until we change human nature. I'm just not sure if that is possible.
edit on 15-2-2016 by ExNihiloRed because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2016 @ 04:53 PM
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a reply to: InMyShell




Money doesn't corrupt people, people corrupt people.


Money cannot corrupt anything. It has no volition. Therefor you are right.



Basically is there any possible way for humanity to evolve to a place beyond looking after the self.


No. And I'm not sure why anyone would want it that way.



Would a world survive if everyone's best efforts were put to caring/working/providing for others?


If everyone took care of themselves, we wouldn't require others to do it for us. Charity, good will, caring, are issues of morality, and must be done willingly and on one's own accord. It could never be enforced without tyranny.



posted on Feb, 15 2016 @ 04:54 PM
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Well... quite simple really.

You just need to look up Star Trek and there you will find your model of "Our" future.

In the 24th century, in Star Trek, they have eliminated the need for the Monetary System. They have conquered all forms of disease and virus. They have eliminated world hunger completely. Everyone is educated and it's almost an Utopia if you will.

People live much longer and they really have nothing to strive for except to 'Better" themselves through further exploration of space.

Later, when Holo Deck technologies were introduced, I mean... come on... they literally can create their own reality as they see fit...

However, the Barter system still exist though. In my opinion, they just replaced money with other things.



posted on Feb, 15 2016 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: truthseeker84

Uh, but what about the Borg?!



posted on Feb, 15 2016 @ 05:09 PM
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a reply to: ExNihiloRed

Thats what I see as the thing to change. When that happens the rest will fall together.

Unfortunately it seems that only a massive event will change the human mindset of greed. People have become part of the machine which enslaves them.



posted on Feb, 15 2016 @ 05:45 PM
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Its the love of money that corrupts people.



posted on Feb, 15 2016 @ 06:11 PM
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originally posted by: InMyShell
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

Thats what I see as the thing to change. When that happens the rest will fall together.

Unfortunately it seems that only a massive event will change the human mindset of greed. People have become part of the machine which enslaves them.


Well, I don't think greed and selfishness are modern problems. There is evidence of the selfishness of man since the dawn of our existence. There are plenty of examples of the opposite, evidenced by Gandhi and Mother Teresa, among others.

Perfection in the form of utopia is impossible, in my opinion. How many revolutions to unseed an oppressive ruler have led to the same oppressive reign or worse?

You're fighting a battle of morality. How do you instill morality in the masses? How do you instill your form of morality in the masses? Who is to say yours or anyone's is "correct"? It is a matter of perspective. Some people believe abortion and gay marriage are immoral while others do not. Won't there always be subsets of people who disagree with your perspective?

All this tells me is that there should be a system that respects individuality and personal choice within certain confines. One such confine I think we can agree with is murder. You agree, murder is bad? Not that easy. Murder can be justifiable in self defense, or should it not be? What about the death penalty?

What bothers me is people (not saying you, but in general) oversimplifying the nature of morality (among other things) and how it should be applied to a civilized populace. These are very difficult questions in response to which way too many people are trying to give broad stroke, easy answers.

Yes, there are problems, but radicalism is rarely the appropriate solution, regardless of your ideologies. We should learn from history and try and adapt solutions in a manner that infringes on liberty the least. I am an advocate, for example, against big government, not because I don't care about the poor, the environment, minorities, war, etc. It is because I do.

I am selfish in the sense that I think everyone has the right to be selfish. I also donate to charities and give back in other ways when I can. I take personal responsibility in achieving what I think should occur. If enough people do, it will change. Appointing an all powerful entity to determine how people should act and live is wrong, in my opinion.

You're never going to enforce your morality on others successfully. Morality is personal. Once you centralize morality you create a much easier opportunity for people to take advantage of it at the detriment of others. Look at the history of religion and the Catholic Church (a purported advocate for the highest form of morality). The crusades are a great example of a morality war. In modern times, ISIS strives to impose their form of morality on the world.

So much is subjective, it confounds me how any one person can say they know what is best for someone else without become exactly what they are rebelling against.

Yes, there are problems and certain changes likely are needed. Those changes must reflect our historic understanding of humanity. Instead of trying to do the impossible and change human nature, perhaps we should find solutions within the confines of the hand we are dealt.

Short-sighted solutions for complex problems are dangerous.

A bit of a ramble, but my two cents.



posted on Feb, 15 2016 @ 07:59 PM
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people are corrupted by their own thoughts. think about it. if you are at peace with yourself first and foremost outside influences will not shake your own inner peace



posted on Feb, 15 2016 @ 08:05 PM
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a reply to: dreamlotus1111
In other words desire is the cause of all sorrow....




posted on Feb, 15 2016 @ 08:08 PM
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originally posted by: truthseeker84
Well... quite simple really.

You just need to look up Star Trek and there you will find your model of "Our" future.

In the 24th century, in Star Trek, they have eliminated the need for the Monetary System. They have conquered all forms of disease and virus. They have eliminated world hunger completely. Everyone is educated and it's almost an Utopia if you will.

People live much longer and they really have nothing to strive for except to 'Better" themselves through further exploration of space.

Later, when Holo Deck technologies were introduced, I mean... come on... they literally can create their own reality as they see fit...

However, the Barter system still exist though. In my opinion, they just replaced money with other things.


I don't think so.

Maybe in the little cloistered world of Starfleet.



posted on Feb, 15 2016 @ 10:05 PM
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a reply to: InMyShell

Praxeology.



posted on Feb, 15 2016 @ 10:45 PM
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I think it is a little of both. Money essentially makes the barter system a lot smoother and more efficient. Money is essential for an advanced civilization because it facilitates specialization of human resources.

The current monetary system and the method of creation of money is immoral. Debt-backed currency turns the end-user population into slaves. Usury is the greatest moral sin yet it is essentially the definition of the goal when talking about becoming wealthy. This CAN be fixed with a change to the monetary system.

The dreams and desires that money can turn into reality can corrupt the individual mind. Bad people who take advantage of others just to get their money are weak-minded greedy people. There isn't much that can be done about this mentality that I know of. Hopefully in the next iteration of life they will be held responsible for what they did on earth.



posted on Feb, 15 2016 @ 11:45 PM
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originally posted by: InMyShell
Hi

Throughout my research through various discussion boards etc I have continually met the discussion about the corruption that money creates.
It's through these discussions that I have come to conclude that the idea of corruption and greed is inevitable in a monetary based system. Furthermore the reality that we have helped create ensures that even without money, corruption will prevail.

Therefore I would like to discuss the possibilities for a future where the concept of greed and corruption will be void. How would this world function with the idea of supply and demand? Would cash be replaced with another form of bartering?

Basically is there any possible way for humanity to evolve to a place beyond looking after the self. Would a world survive if everyone's best efforts were put to caring/working/providing for others?


While I don't think greed and corruption will ever be void in this world, I think it could be significantly reduced if employment that paid well enough to sustain a single person a nice, spacious, private home, great food, and great health and dental care was viewed as a human right, with the understanding that the employment be chosen by the person themselves, based on their interest and potential for talent in that job sector, with no repercussion should their interest change in desiring to choose working for a different employer, and develop the growth of another talent after 2 years on the job. This way there is forced commitment once it's chosen, but its not a life sentence. Along with this would be significant wage increases based on years on the job, evaluations, with a test, similar to the military.

I think if people liked their jobs and were paid well and didn't have to worry about the basic necessities, with those being of superior quality, not cheap or ghetto/barrack style, who could also remain single or be single again, and not forced into staying in a relationship due to no quality employment options available to them, that many would behave differently in a positive way. This would give humanity time to see who the real trouble makers are and begin to take steps to address their problems.

This would not force anyone to have to work if they didn't want to work, out of their own laziness or having a pile of money to play with, but any greedy or corrupt behavior could not be blamed on not having a nice private home to feel safe in and take care of their needs in, or lack of good quality food, or substandard health care or dental care, or that they hated their job. Implementing all that would reduce the excuse where people say they feel compelled to steal, rob and so on because they are desperate, outcasts, which goes back to great employment being a human right, available to anyone. Being an outcast would now become a choice the individual makes.

In addition to this a Nation's education system should deem high school graduates worthy of being able to participate in the workforce immediately because they were taught to be work force ready for the last 4 yeats, with skills that can be immediately applied in specialized job. Higer Education should merge with employers and become one in the same. A separate educational institution should form that teaches literature, drama and art, that the student pays for out of pocket, or an employer pays for them, or they get a scholarship or grant for.

The concept of how valuable 'caring for' and 'working for' others is needs to be implemented in elementary school. Starting at 1st grade. The only way they will learn it and value it is if they actually do it and are rewarded for it. That means elementary school should have community service as it's root teaching and be involved in it. Grades should not be viewed as rewards. A reward system that implements celebrations, trophys and medals should be used as rewards. A class should be taught to stand as a team with the strong kids learning how to motivate the weak in a positive way and utilize the best skill the weakest kid has to offer to benefit the team so the team is united and successfull. Strong kids should be taught that true strength lays in their ability to see the best of something inside a weak and/or timid peer and be able to bring that out in them by encouraging them and building their confidence. Everyone fully participates because survival depends on the team. A few examples of community work are composing a book or reading a book out loud to a senior in a convalecent home. Maintaining a park. For middle school - Jr high students, providing childcare for those too young to go to school or care for the disabled. They need to be involved in real life community service jobs. 5th and 6th graders, planning, making and serving meals to the younger. These kids do school work and home work. It's work. Since it is work they need to work by being proactive and not dinkering around on stretched out learning that only shows the results through a test instead of with action with real time purpose. This can all be done in beautiful schools, with generous breaks and recess, and done in a fun and motivating way, the kids won't want to leave and will look forward to going to school.

So this is what needs to happen to begin taking real steps to evolve as stated in the OP.



posted on Feb, 16 2016 @ 12:47 AM
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originally posted by: WhiteWingedMonolith
While I don't think greed and corruption will ever be void in this world, I think it could be significantly reduced if employment that paid well enough to sustain a single person a nice, spacious, private home, great food, and great health and dental care was viewed as a human right, with the understanding that the employment be chosen by the person themselves...


Your initial thought is grand, but you followed by a model that is contradictory in nature. If we choose our own vocation, we cannot assume that it all pays the same amount to a minimum (determined by whom?) to sustain all the wants of modern society.

In addition to this a Nation's education system should deem high school graduates worthy of being able to participate in the workforce immediately because they were taught to be work force ready for the last 4 yeats, with skills that can be immediately applied in specialized job. Higer Education should merge with employers and become one in the same. A separate educational institution should form that teaches literature, drama and art, that the student pays for out of pocket, or an employer pays for them, or they get a scholarship or grant for.

I agree here with the premise. By focusing in on "degrees", we have pigeonholed job opportunities that most could fulfill with just a high-school diploma -- it is just we, as a nation, are demanding college degrees for the most mundane positions.

Good thought on this though that I will contemplate.


The concept of how valuable 'caring for' and 'working for' others is needs to be implemented in elementary school. Starting at 1st grade.


That is the job of the individual and their culture in my opinion. A State or Nation cannot force these.


The only way they will learn it and value it is if they actually do it and are rewarded for it. That means elementary school should have community service as it's root teaching and be involved in it.


State sponsored charity is never the way to go. It must be spontaneous and wholly gracious to be effective and life serving.


Grades should not be viewed as rewards. A reward system that implements celebrations, trophys and medals should be used as rewards.


I disagree. Grades are designed to weight a students' progress in a certain subject. To separate that, well, puts us where we are at now as a nation as it is being done now.


A class should be taught to stand as a team with the strong kids learning how to motivate the weak in a positive way and utilize the best skill the weakest kid has to offer to benefit the team so the team is united and successfull.


A "team" environment is fine; but what if the "weak" individual just works better as just that...an individual? You are suggesting punishing those who do not adhere to the "team"...

Overall, you are providing ideas. That is good. That is far more than what our "leaders" do now. I refute them, but they are ideas and worth debating.



posted on Feb, 16 2016 @ 05:23 AM
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a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I think you are confusing nature with nurture.



posted on Feb, 16 2016 @ 05:29 AM
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I don't think any of you are addressing the true issue here. It's all in the way we are raised. Raise a child to think utopia is the norm and this is how things are and that child will likely strive for something even better.

Raise a human to feel compassion, care and love and that is what he will do every single day of his life.

Raise a child to be confused by the world around him, complicated concepts that make a broken system inch along.. Money, politics, police brutality, religion, war, conspiracies etc. And that human will likely be confused and end up hurting himself and others as he tries to find his place in this broken system.

It's easy to raise a healthy child, it's very difficult to fix a broken adult.



posted on Feb, 16 2016 @ 06:21 AM
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a reply to: dreamlotus1111

Exactly



posted on Feb, 16 2016 @ 07:14 AM
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a reply to: InMyShell

As a very wealthy relative of mine, said "who ever said 'money can't buy happiness', didn't have any"...

He drives a pick up, and is the most humble person I know.....

It's all in the way you perceive and live...and share w/others



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