Immortality of Consciousness - Reconciling Ghosts and Reincarnation

If you have not had the opportunity, please read my first post, "Immortality of Consciousness - Reincarnation," which discusses, among other things, reincarnation and certain cases of children remembering past lives.

The next stage of inquiry in my attempt to gain an understanding of spirituality as it exists in life and possibly transcends death is to call into question one potentially unreconcilable aspect of reincarnation: "ghosts." Here, I will attempt to make the case that ghosts and reincarnation are potentially reconcilable. This inquiry derives from the existence of numerous belief systems that people have experienced and reported, which on their face may appear contradictory. Dillusion could be the cause, but I find it more pertinent for my purposes to investigate these various beliefs in an attempt to reconcile them.

In evaluating reincarnation, one must inevitably accept the ends without understanding the means. The how and why to reincarnation are open for debate and difficult to answer. In an open-minded critique of this spiritual ideology, one must consider the possibility that reincarnation is not necessarily life into death immediately into life. One must also consider, among other things, whether prerequisites to reincarnation exist, whether reincarnation is but one of a multitude of afterlife paths or possibilities (and that it is not mutually exclusive to any other), that reincarnation is not absolute, and that any temporal element between death and rebirth is potentially limitless (spanning seconds to eons, potentially).

Finally, one must be open to understanding the nature of "ghosts,' which I use loosely to characterize a paranormal reflection of a deceased inidividual. It goes without saying that the simplest answer, "ghosts don't exist," would render this intellectual inquiry moot. Therefore, I assume for purposes of this analysis that ghosts, in some form, "exist." Whether ghosts are "conscious" actors or subject to free will is not necessarily an assumption that must be made. Rather, as discussed below, ghosts may be a form of imprint, without individual identity.

The following is a summary of certain viewpoints on these issues. I welcome critique of these propositions or alternative theories, which I look forward to discussing in the comments if you are so inclined.

Unfinished Business

If we believe in the common notion that ghosts are reflections of the deceased with "unfinished business," perhaps ghosts are those who have not met a necessary prerequisite in order to move on through reincarnation.

Edgar Cayce touched on a spirit's journey throughout lifetimes. How skills and talents we have now are the results of past lives. In our life, we are here to try and find a "karmic" balance for the lessons we learn now for those we didn't learn, haven't learned, or still need to learn. The lingering spirit, after death, still possibly be someone looking to close a karmic gap that they incarnated to do in this lifetime.

To those that access the Akashic Records, or Book of Life, they'll find information about a person across several lifetimes, which Cayce often used to diagnose ailments with those who sought him for readings. So, in the line, a ghost could be what we figured it was, a spirit still looking to finish some business in their life before moving on.

Connecting the Dots of the Paranormal: Ghosts and Reincarnation

The Imprint Theory

What if ghosts are merely a reflection and not autonomous?

One more possibly comes to mind that a ghost is the collective conscious of the people leaving an imprint in reality of a person's past existence. With thought creating so much reality everyday, it could have the power to leave a visual, if hazy, representation of the spirit in question. Since everyone will imagine the spirit entity a different way, solid details are sometimes lost. This is hard to prove, of course, but after looking into thoughtforms and their effect on us, it might be possible some ghosts are the result of it.

Connecting the Dots of the Paranormal: Ghosts and Reincarnation

Unawareness

Many ghosts are purpotedly people who met a sudden or violent end. If the spirit has not accepted or realized (to the extent a spirit can "realize" or "accept") that it has "passed on," perhaps then it fails another prerequisite of reincarnation, unable to transition until "realization" or "acceptance."


Multiple Possible Paths

One Chinese based belief posits that when people die, they go to 丰都鬼城 (the ghost city of Feng Du) to be evaluated by their lives' deeds by the 阎罗王 (a Taoism variety of Yamaraja). If judged favorably, they can reincarnate to the next life. If judged unfavorably, they are sent to "hell" to suffer punishment. Those who don't need to go to hell, can actually choose to either drink the amnesia soup and reincarnate to the next life, or remain at the ghost city, often because they have unfinished business in the real world, or they want to wait for their loved ones still alive.

This theory mixes many ideologies and attempts to reconcile numerous belief systems.


Although it is far from clear how to fully reconcile reincarnation with many of the otherworldly experiences, I believe it is possible. The existence of one does not, in my opinion, preclude the others.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

Rather, as discussed below, ghosts may be a form of imprint, without individual identity.

Presumptively on my part, you haven't seen one. If you had, you wouldn't say that. They are real individuals alright. If you ever had an encounter you would know that.

I could see the multiple lace eyelets on the tailored to his feet leather shoes, the red vest, white blouse with frill, the cane, the long white beard that came to a point, and those eyes. He was sitting there looking right at me from across a small room.

There was no mistaking the event, it was, he was as real as a real person. Nobody else in the room saw him at the time, but my friend who rented the place was convinced the place was haunted (I didn't know that beforehand) and said, quote, "You alright? You look like you just saw a ghost."

Ghosts are people too, just no longer in their bodies.

a reply to: intrptr

I was positing multiple arguments. One was that ghosts were autonomous, one was that they MAY not be... for sake of the analysis.

If we were to go by the theory that ghosts were some sort of 'reflection' rather than actually the 'being' of a person that is now... no longer physical in the same way, would that mean that someone could both reincarnate and 'be a ghost?' Of course that ghost wouldn't actually be that same 'being,' the person would have moved on into another form, but even in doing so could have left behind some kind of imprint on reality that remains. If that were the case then that person could in theory encounter the ghost of their past life and perhaps have a greater sense of familiarity or be more prone to experiencing the 'ghost' because it is an imprint of their own self. This doesn't seem like it would be possible of course if a ghost were actually the spirit, or whatever you want to call it, of a person. I suppose if there are indeed ghosts then it's possible there are also different kinds, both the spirit still there or the imprint from people on an area and that may explain why there seem to be different kinds of ghost encounters. The idea of ghosts repeating some kind of loop, always showing up at the same time or doing the same thing has always seemed to suggest to me that it is indeed some kind of imprint as opposed to a spirit just doing the same thing over and over again.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I was positing multiple arguments. One was that ghosts were autonomous, one was that they MAY not be… for sake of the analysis.

Okay, analyze this. How come they are wearing clothing? 2 I saw were dressed in period clothing, another in coveralls carrying an old style tool box.

WTF?

I believe there are different kinds of ghosts/spirits. And yes, some are imprints on the environment as the poster above described. Some don't realize they are dead, some have unfinished business, some may be entities like poltergeists who aren't so nice and throw furniture and things around.

As for reincarnation, I'm hoping to hell that we have a choice because I wouldn't want to come back here. Maybe elsewhere, but not Earth.

I read your last post and this one. I don't think anyone brought up timelines. Perhaps you can reincarnate into the past or be stuck in it (like a movie on rewind?).

It would make sense. If you fail a lesson, you don't move on to the next subject you take the test again?

Anyway, I'm not any type of expert. I just have the feeling *I*, as myself, I have been through this specific life before.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I was positing multiple arguments. One was that ghosts were autonomous, one was that they MAY not be… for sake of the analysis.

Okay, analyze this. How come they are wearing clothing? 2 I saw were dressed in period clothing, another in coveralls carrying an old style tool box.

WTF?

Maybe they didn't want to scare you even more by being naked. LOL That is an interesting question. Maybe they can choose to be seen the way they want. I don't know.

a reply to: intrptr

Okay, analyze this. How come they are wearing clothing? 2 I saw were dressed in period clothing, another in coveralls carrying an old style tool box.

Maybe recreating themselves from memory? I have no clue but it's a good question.

originally posted by: Skid Mark
a reply to: intrptr

Okay, analyze this. How come they are wearing clothing? 2 I saw were dressed in period clothing, another in coveralls carrying an old style tool box.

Maybe recreating themselves from memory? I have no clue but it's a good question.

Not that good, apparently.

Either that or its just that I asked it. I don't see anyone else retelling their spook encounter. Thanks, though.

The only possible answer I can come up with is they are stuck in their role here for whatever reason, they refuse to learn some lesson so are on 'hold' until they do. If that flies at all…

originally posted by: rshackleford The idea of ghosts repeating some kind of loop, always showing up at the same time or doing the same thing has always seemed to suggest to me that it is indeed some kind of imprint as opposed to a spirit just doing the same thing over and over again.

I would tend to agree with this as evidence of the imprint theory.

originally posted by: Night Star
I believe there are different kinds of ghosts/spirits. And yes, some are imprints on the environment as the poster above described. Some don't realize they are dead, some have unfinished business, some may be entities like poltergeists who aren't so nice and throw furniture and things around.

As for reincarnation, I'm hoping to hell that we have a choice because I wouldn't want to come back here. Maybe elsewhere, but not Earth.

It is not clear to me that we reincarnate necessarily on Earth (even if there is no choice). This theory, perhaps, is one worth discussing in more detail in another post.

originally posted by: Daughter2
I read your last post and this one. I don't think anyone brought up timelines. Perhaps you can reincarnate into the past or be stuck in it (like a movie on rewind?).

It would make sense. If you fail a lesson, you don't move on to the next subject you take the test again?

Anyway, I'm not any type of expert. I just have the feeling *I*, as myself, I have been through this specific life before.

Interesting. You would need to believe you were part of your own snapshot of the world. If you keep repeating the past, what about all of the other people in the world at that time? If you change something, won't that impact others as well?

a reply to: intrptr

I always struggled with the idea of ghosts wearing clothes and having tools, etc. Those things are material objects. How are they recreated in the afterlife? In my opinion, clothes and objects with the ghost would more likely suggest an imprint theory.

Regardless, for purposes of this post, I assumed ghosts exist, so I do not want to derail this thread with a discussion of spook stories. I accept both possibilities (that ghosts are autonomous and that ghosts may be an imprint) in the analysis above. Therefore, we do not need to debate which is more likely.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I always struggled with the idea of ghosts wearing clothes and having tools, etc. Those things are material objects. How are they recreated in the afterlife?

They shop at ghost mart?

Certainly compelling In each of these cases, I was not the first to see these, even though at the time I thought they were just real people, only later learning they were notorious hauntings.

Considering whether ghost are real has to include witness reports I would think, but I will respect your admonishment to theorize.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

It's tough to define what a 'ghost' is before tackling the reports. Personally, I know enough people who've claimed to have seen one that I don't harbour many doubts about the phenomena. I believe people see what they say they see...I just can't commit to sharing their interpretations of such.


People have reported 'ghosts' of living people as well as the dead which obviously poses a huge question mark above the 'ghost' we explain as 'disembodied.' If people describe a solid 'ghost' in period costume, is their reality any different to someone reporting the apparition of a loved one who is still alive? Must we venture off into 'souls' to explain how both reports could be veridical? If that's the case, at what point does the 'soul' of a loved one go travelling and what happens to their physical body whilst its AWOL?

It seems a simpler contention to say that ghost sightings are not spirits of the dead or spirits of the living. We're still left with the wealth of reports and no clear explanation that covers them all.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I always struggled with the idea of ghosts wearing clothes and having tools, etc. Those things are material objects. How are they recreated in the afterlife?

They shop at ghost mart?

I laughed at that. You got a star.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

It's tough to define what a 'ghost' is before tackling the reports. Personally, I know enough people who've claimed to have seen one that I don't harbour many doubts about the phenomena. I believe people see what they say they see...I just can't commit to sharing their interpretations of such.


People have reported 'ghosts' of living people as well as the dead which obviously poses a huge question mark above the 'ghost' we explain as 'disembodied.' If people describe a solid 'ghost' in period costume, is their reality any different to someone reporting the apparition of a loved one who is still alive? Must we venture off into 'souls' to explain how both reports could be veridical? If that's the case, at what point does the 'soul' of a loved one go travelling and what happens to their physical body whilst its AWOL?

It seems a simpler contention to say that ghost sightings are not spirits of the dead or spirits of the living. We're still left with the wealth of reports and no clear explanation that covers them all.

I think you've excellently described some of the conundrums in this area. Existence of ghosts and their nature are fundamentally different. We have yet to confirm the former, so understanding the latter is a far ways off. Some have argued that ghosts and the AWOL experiences you discussed are byproducts of telepathy and ESP.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

Yes. As fields go, this one is about as good as any other when it comes to years of running in circles and chasing our own asses.

a reply to: Kandinsky

If people describe a solid 'ghost' in period costume, is their reality any different to someone reporting the apparition of a loved one who is still alive?

Yes. Each of these 'solid' encounters were not'solid' as you put it.

I didn't shake hands with them converse or interact at all. Since I thought they were real real people they were not as important to me at the time, as if I saw a ghost.