Why You Can't Argue With a Liberal 2.0

*Snip*

"Let me explain something that you must understand, for I see it frustrating my conservative, libertarians and capitalist friends;

It is pointless to argue with liberals and leftists.

I don't mean this in a broad-insulting-stroke-of-the-brush sort of way. I mean that in a sincere, realistic way.

It is pointless to argue with liberals and leftists.

And here is the reason why;

When you argue with them, you are not arguing facts or statistics, you are arguing against a religion. Understand that conservatism, capitalism, and liberty are all founded in empirical evidence that has proven, time and time again, that when a people are free and you do not tax them to death, they will thrive and succeed. Limitless examples throughout history show this, not to mention terrabytes of economic data will support this as well.

Capitalism is the BEST economic system, hands down, period, if for any other reason it is the only system based in reality.

However, leftists ideology, whatever the strain, is not based in reality. It is based in a belief. Specifically, a belief that they WANT to believe in. There is no empirical evidence. There is no rational thought or intellectual honesty or rigor involved. It is simply something for the masses to opiate themselves on and feel good about it. ie- it socialism, leftism, liberalism IS A RELIGION.

Now two points that must be made of this;

1. You can't argue with fundamentalists, not matter what their stripe. Religious right christians that insist sex is bad and gays are evil. Radical muslims that want to blow you up because, well, you're not a radical muslim. Extreme fringes of Jews who won't fly on planes on Fridays (or whatever day it is, I'm not terribly familiar with the Jewish religion). Regardless, trying to convince a leftist that lower taxes and a small government is best for society is like trying to convince a christian that dinosaurs did indeed exist MILLIONS of years ago and that carbon dating is a correct technique. It goes against their religion.

Yes, they have no basis. Yes, they ignore the empirical evidence. But that is the whole point of a religion. You ignore reality because you CHOOSE to believe in what you WANT to believe in.

2. The hypocrisy of it all. I want to know the number of global warming zealots that mock christians and religious people in general. No seriously, think about that. How many leftists who believe in this global warming RELIGION in the same breath then slam on religious people. The brush could be plied to leftists in general. How many socialists scoff or mock people for believing in something that has no empirical evidence to support it yet at the same time swallow the socialist religion whole?

Thus, my friends, there is only one thing to do. And that is let reality do your arguing for you. You can't win, because they won't believe you. It is more important to them to adhere and subscribe to their religion of socialism than it is to adhere to anything as noble and honorable as the truth. Therefore you're just wasting your breath.

But just like the radical muslim who might have second thoughts about blowing himself up, or the 75 year old christian, spinster virgin who passed up on plenty of honorable men to be alone with her cats and her bible reality will inevitably dawn on them. They will look at their single, infinitesimally finite life they were given and realized they ruined it. They pissed the only thing they had away. Think about it for a second. Don't you think the burnt out hippie who is now approaching 65 years old who still wears the pony tail and can point at nothing but, "sticking it to the man" back in '68 as his largest single achievement? How about the millions of aged Russian communists who were all for the Bolshevikian revolution? Boy, wasn't the past 90 years of their lives fun and fruitful? What will the modern legions of socialists, leftists and communists achieve in their lives? You do realize that the majority of young people voted to have Obama make them indentured slaves (ergo why "young" is latin for "stupid as all hell.)? How successful do you think these socialist zealots are going to be in their lives pursuing a "dream" that is really a nightmare?

But you see, that's the only thing that will convince them otherwise. It's not going to be you. It's not going to be the charming Captain with all of his charts and graphs. It's not even going to be people who have lived and suffered under communism.

No, what will inevitably prove you right will be the leftists getting what they want and realizing they've pissed their lives away.

And that is the best revenge one can have."

Why You Can't Argue With A Liberal

I find the above rant very pertinent to the current political debate on this forum. There is without question a divide between liberals and conservatives (including the various sects of each group) constantly being demonstrated in some heated debates. More conservative minded individuals continue to set forth empirical evidence, sources, educated arguments, etc. More liberal minded individuals regurgitate what they have heard from others (without doing their diligence), dismiss factual evidence, tout ideologies, point to likeability over qualifications and history, and use mob mentality to support their positions.

I could not put my finger on the issue until I read the quoted material above. I did not think it was a lack of education (at least not in the case of ALL the purported liberals). There are plenty of seemingly smart, generally "informed" people taking these positions. Well, I think the above highlights the reasons why. It also helps explain why so many people support Bernie merely on the basis of his likeability.

I am not going to dive back into the details of the issues that many of my peers have already articulated. For example, Bernie Sanders Platform. Dangerous...Failed...Rehashed...and NOT "Revolutionary"

Read all the relevant posts and see whether rational thought or intellectual honesty or rigor is actually involved. And think to yourself, isn't arguing with a liberal just like arguing with a religious zealot?

a reply to: ExNihiloRed


The exact same thing could be said for Conservatives or Right-Wingers.
It's a pointless post as you're only going to have those who lean the same way all agree and start backslapping... and those who are opposed ideologically will disagree.

You're just looking for confirmation that your way of thinking is correct and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

It's a little sad.

And I will reply to this post as I did the one last night.

Were your post a ship at sea, it's hull is so fragile it could be ripped asunder by any number icebergs.
And not liberal icebergs, but rational icebergs.

originally posted by: blupblup
a reply to: ExNihiloRed


The exact same thing could be said for Conservatives or Right-Wingers.
It's a pointless post as you're only going to have those who lean the same way and those who are opposed ideologically will disagree.

You're just looking for confirmation that your way of thinking is correct and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

It's a little sad.

I expected this type of post. I never asked for confirmation of anything. I pointed out the lack of empirical evidence on one side of the debate, which is continually exacerbated by misinformation.

Your post is the equivalent of "I know you are, but what am I." Let's grow up and use some rational thought and intellectually honesty.

Yes it's the liberals who ignore the facts in a debate.

& pigs fly.

originally posted by: blupblup
a reply to: ExNihiloRed


The exact same thing could be said for Conservatives or Right-Wingers.
It's a pointless post as you're only going to have those who lean the same way all agree and start backslapping... and those who are opposed ideologically will disagree.

You're just looking for confirmation that your way of thinking is correct and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

It's a little sad.

I'd also like to say you probably didn't even read my post. You did manage to perpetuate everything in it though. Slow clap.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Yes it's the liberals who ignore the facts in a debate.

& pigs fly.

Please expound. Broad stroke statements with no factual support are always pertinent.

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

Your post is the equivalent of "I know you are, but what am I." Let's grow up and use some ration thought and intellectually honesty.

And yours is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in you ears and shouting "I'm right... la la la la la CAN'T HEAR YOU"

originally posted by: blupblup

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

Your post is the equivalent of "I know you are, but what am I." Let's grow up and use some ration thought and intellectually honesty.

And yours is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in you ears and shouting "I'm right... la la la la la CAN'T HEAR YOU"

I am willing to openly debate the points, like I have been in every post I put on here. Read the post. Throw out FACTS and we can discuss them. This is literally my point. Read any of the liberal minded posts on this forum asking for people to put facts out there. Conservatives do, and they are ignored. The opposite is not true for conservatives who respond with facts.

I use facts more as empirical evidence and observations based on them. I don't want to get run over the coals if people think my use of the term facts is inappropriate in some way.

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Yes it's the liberals who ignore the facts in a debate.

& pigs fly.

Please expound. Broad stroke statements with no factual support are always pertinent.

Who ignores facts and data when it comes to CC?

Who ignored the facts when CMP made them videos?

Who ignores the fact that the Earth isn't 6000 years old?

Who ignores the fact that wars destabilised the Middle East?

I should continue, but I cannot be bothered.


I might add you showed no "factual support" for your claims...
Just some right wingers rant.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Yes it's the liberals who ignore the facts in a debate.

& pigs fly.

Please expound. Broad stroke statements with no factual support are always pertinent.

Who ignores facts and data when it comes to CC?

Who ignored the facts when CMP made them videos?

Who ignores the fact that the Earth isn't 6000 years old?

Who ignores the fact that wars destabilised the Middle East?

I should continue, but I cannot be bothered.


I might add you showed no "factual support for your claims...
Just some right wingers rant.

Do you understand what small government means? You put your stake in the ground solely on these religious points and other traditional values points. If you read the post, it was more about the economy and conservative government views (i.e., small government).

I must say, I'm really impressed how much my post is being evidenced by the replies.

davefactor.blogspot.com...

Hey look I can find an obviously biased blog too!

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I think you should rename your thread title to:

"Unregulated Capitalism: A Love Story"



Wall Street makes the tastiest koolaid on the block !
Yum yum yum.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed


So as you mention in your OP about extremists on both sides - why not just title your OP "why you can't argue with extremists"
Like conservatives and right-wingers are a bastion of reason and sanity and don't even exaggerate, get emotional, make stuff up, deflect and troll and totally ignore any points made.

No it's liberals you can't talk to... it's liberals that are solely the issue.

This is my point - It's just divisive crap and it is a pointless debate to be having.
Do you think after we go round and round for 20 replies we'll somehow totally see each others point of view or convert or change our ideologies?

I am fully aware of many issues on both sides of the political spectrum and believe there is a lot of common ground and many issues on both sides are valid and believe there is cause for concern on several big issues right now.
But your title makes me not want to have the debate - it's just worded very poorly and I'm sure you'll get the fight and fun you're looking for in the thread.

Good luck

There's not really much point in debating anybody with a blinkered, dogmatic and rigid view regardless of what ideology they're espousing.

The premise that somebody who believes differently to you can't hold any valid ideas or is automatically incapable of rational thought is a bit self congratulatory and shortsighted in my opinion. I see meaningful exchanges on both sides here frequently.

I got the to the point where, right after stating that liberals are stupid because they won't believe all the "Evidence" that conservatism is the best and that liberalism is a religion, then went on to state that climate change is a religion with no evidence. Love it.

originally posted by: blupblup
a reply to: ExNihiloRed


So as you mention in your OP about extremists on both sides - why not just title your OP "why you can't argue with extremists"
Like conservatives and right-wingers are a bastion of reason and sanity and don't even exaggerate, get emotional, make stuff up, deflect and troll and totally ignore any points made.

No it's a liberal thing only.

This is my point - It's just divisive crap and it is a pointless debate to be having.
Do you think after we go round and round for 20 replies we'll somehow totally see each others point of view or convert or change our ideologies?

I am fully aware of many issues on both sides of the political spectrum and believe there is a lot of common ground and many issues on both sides are valid and believe there is cause for concern on several big issues right now.
But your title makes me not want to have the debate - it's just worded very poorly and I'm sure you'll get the fight and fun you're looking for in the thread.

Good luck

It is a rant forum, right?

If the BEST economic system, hands down, period, is the one that lead this country to where we are than we truly are doomed.

Unless the based in reality part just accepts that humans are terrible creatures who can't do much of anything right and never will.

originally posted by: corvuscorrax


If the BEST economic system, hands down, period, is the one that lead this country to where we are than we truly are doomed.

Unless the based in reality part just accepts that humans are terrible creatures who can't do much of anything right and never will.

Not sure how you can say capitalism in and of itself is the sole source for all of our problems.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed


It is a rant forum, right?

It is indeed.... am I not ranting??