Armed Robbery Victim in NYC Jail after DISARMING Attacker

wow! those shoes really cost an arm and a... nope just an arm.

a reply to: centarix

"That cop" in Ferguson did not shoot anyone in the back.

People still believe that?

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Discotech

So if it's ok to shoot the thief which would likely kill him, why isn't it ok to ram the thief with an SUV when the results and intents are both the same ?

Besides the whole law thing, you mean?

Because chasing after running the thief down after the fact makes it a separate incident. Your proposal he could have shot the guy during the robbery or to prevent the robbery. According to how the law sees it.

Imagine how many people get run over tomorrow for various "crimes" if they don't come out against this?

Theres a drug dealer, wham, a prostitute, my ex, a banker… wham, wham, wham.

(just kidding about my ex, I don't have one of those)

It's actually a state by state law. Some states like stand your ground states you do not have to back down. Ever. This incident certainly pushes that limit though.

Yah, certainly 'standing ones ground' as they call it (right to self defense), doesn't include 'chasing' after them and running them down from behind in a car.

Dig this. In California if someone comes into your home and a door way is closer to you than they are, you are supposed to try and make it out the door to get away and then call police, not confront the intruder… even in your own home. Bye, bye to home is your castle and all.

Edit: Thats the way it used to be, don't know if still true…

a reply to: Metallicus

Where did you see the the claim of a failed shot?

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: EightTF3

Is it acting out of instinct to drive away and then turn around?

It isn't flight and fight, he made a decision to get away, but then changed his mind.
[/quotehief

I see it quite differently and find the victim heroic by diffusing the gun toting brazen thief and insuring the safety of the public at large.

I say the thief was a clear, present and imminent danger to the citizenry, in consideration that by the criminal's act of armed robbery and purported attempted murder clearly jeopardizes any citizen that may cross paths with this criminal. Knowledge of the randomness of the perp's criminal acts (plural) and that brandishing and attempted discharging a firearm without provocation by the victim, point blank at his face; a mortal encounter and narrow escape from death, is justifiably more than enough probable cause to warrant lethal force to stop the criminal, lest another or more unsuspecting citizen(s) face potential death at this perp's now one remaining hand.

Jury Trial, if the district attorney actually tries the victim.

This is where the law is an ass.
If someone steals then morally you have every right to take your stuff back, and if you have to be violent to do so, what's the problem with that?
It might put people off stealing if they consider they may get hurt.

As far as I'm concerned, going out with the intention of taking someone else's stuff puts you in harm's way and you deserve what you get.

Right or wrong people are tired of criminals,
and are starting to fight back.

Like your arms?

Don't rob people. I hope he suffers for the rest of his pathetic life

originally posted by: SprocketUK

So If I get robbed and someone takes my wallet with 100$ in it, I should be allowed to chase the criminal down and use any force possible?

Is there any humanity left in you people?

The 17 year old committed a crime, should receive a fair trial and face justice.
The SUV driver committed a crime, should receive a fair trial and face justice.

a reply to: centarix

This is only wrong, because the world is a stupid place to live.

Try stealing my boots. I am a nice guy, but I would pull a mans arms off and beat him to death with them, if he stuck a gun in my face and stole my boots. It would be nothing to do with the boots though. Fact, if you let a person who is prepared to pull a gun in order to gain footwear, walk away from an incident like this, then you are basically allowing that individual to do something like it, or worse to someone else.

I would rather live with that perpetrators blood on my hands, than feel the weight of the person he kills because I let him live.

originally posted by: Danowski

originally posted by: SprocketUK

So If I get robbed and someone takes my wallet with 100$ in it, I should be allowed to chase the criminal down and use any force possible?

Is there any humanity left in you people?

The 17 year old committed a crime, should receive a fair trial and face justice.
The SUV driver committed a crime, should receive a fair trial and face justice.

No, you do what's right for you. If you're happy letting them go, that's fine

My outlook is different. Whilst I respect your right to allow those who do you down to walk free, you should have respect for my right to stick up for myself.

If some crim doesn't want to get hurt, i'd advise them to stay away from folks like me.

I have loads of humanity, thanks.
I've never hurt someone who didn't deserve it.
I've also never stood by and watched while someone else was being robbed, hurt or abused.

May not be a popular opinion round here but i feel if you point a gun at someone+ robs the person, you deserve every damn thing you got coming. ZERO sympathy from me.One arm less to point guns at+rob folks with..cry me a river.

I'm about to take an afternoon nap+one's mind drifts a bit before falling asleep,so i was thinking of this disarming episode+ then i remembered Nick's granny..just had to share before i forgot.
Nick is a family friend who has an Extremely feisty 94yo granny.

Now in my country;South Africa,by the traffic lights there are always informal vendors trying to sell anything from superglue+belts,to cellphone covers+plush toys,occasionally also stolen goods like jewellery.I mention this for background reference.

So one day,few years ago,this old lady is by a traffic light when a tsotsi approaches to hijack her car,shoving a gun into her car.She,being fairly deaf,assumes he's trying to Sell her a gun.She irritatedly tells him no thank you.But obviously he keeps standing there with the gun practically in her face.

So she gets so annoyed that with her left hand she reaches into her handbag on the passenger seat,pulls out her own gun and just about shoves it into the hijacker's face,while screaming:" See i Told you No Thank You, i HAVE one already,now will you bugger off!?!

Well he turned and hastily left South Africa can be a weird+ wacky place

a reply to: intrptr

So wait...if I successfully commit a crime against you my right to defend what's mine goes out the window? You realize the police don't care to investigate or follow up on robbery's unless their big heists usually involving businesses. In fact my grandmothers house was broken into and when the police arrived they told us they weren't going to fingerprint because we had entered the house. Even though there were clearly places to get the guys prints that none of us had touched. It took calling in some favors with family in the legal system in a near by town to pressure them into doing some police work. So you can't really count on the police...sometimes you gotta do it yourself.

a reply to: RickyD

Likewise, my neighbors house was broken into, they investigated and all, took a report. I saw the guy that did it, he was dressed as a utility worker so I paid him no mind at the time. When I later told my neighbor this, she said the cops told her that they had over 600 open cases of burglary in our town, that they were overwhelmed and there was nothing they could do further, unless something 'turns up'.

Police work is confined to cleaning up after the poor and protecting the rich. If they catch a suspect or encounter a wanted person, they arrest, but a BOLO is hardly an investigative tool.

Turns out the guy was living in our complex, was responsible for a number of break ins, they actually caught him driving around with her credit cards in his pocket, in a random stop. He couldn't be convicted on burglary, just possession of stolen property.

Undermanned and over worked. What a dummy, caught himself.

originally posted by: Raxoxane
I'm about to take an afternoon nap+one's mind drifts a bit before falling asleep,so i was thinking of this disarming episode+ then i remembered Nick's granny..just had to share before i forgot.
Nick is a family friend who has an Extremely feisty 94yo granny.

Now in my country;South Africa,by the traffic lights there are always informal vendors trying to sell anything from superglue+belts,to cellphone covers+plush toys,occasionally also stolen goods like jewellery.I mention this for background reference.

So one day,few years ago,this old lady is by a traffic light when a tsotsi approaches to hijack her car,shoving a gun into her car.She,being fairly deaf,assumes he's trying to Sell her a gun.She irritatedly tells him no thank you.But obviously he keeps standing there with the gun practically in her face.

So she gets so annoyed that with her left hand she reaches into her handbag on the passenger seat,pulls out her own gun and just about shoves it into the hijacker's face,while screaming:" See i Told you No Thank You, i HAVE one already,now will you bugger off!?!

Well he turned and hastily left

South Africa can be a weird+ wacky place

That is one of the greatest stories I have ever heard.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: centarix

This is only wrong, because the world is a stupid place to live.

Try stealing my boots. I am a nice guy, but I would pull a mans arms off and beat him to death with them, if he stuck a gun in my face and stole my boots. It would be nothing to do with the boots though. Fact, if you let a person who is prepared to pull a gun in order to gain footwear, walk away from an incident like this, then you are basically allowing that individual to do something like it, or worse to someone else.

I would rather live with that perpetrators blood on my hands, than feel the weight of the person he kills because I let him live.

Precisely.

originally posted by: centarix

the 17-year-old pulled a gun on the man, took the sneakers and walked off.

Rather than calling the police, Phil took things into his own hands. He did a quick u-turn and ran over the teenager attempting to walk away with the sneakers. The thief's arm was severed in the collision

Source: www.sbnation.com...

Is it without our rights to use any force we deem necessary to recover stolen property? It it reasonable to think that in the cited story, that the robber may have gotten away cleanly had he not be DISARMED.

Sadly, the confrontation was over when the gentleman decided he wanted revenge and his sneakers back. Regardless of the previous malice, the followup assault was certainly tantamount to attempted murder.

I think the moral hazard is too high to allow this freedom for the robber. Sure after 10 minutes and they are miles away it would be one thing to track them down.

This moral hazard is why something like the cologne nye incident can happen. Once those animals groped women don't chase them down? Just call the cops and hope their understaffed agency can worry about it, attempt to track these people down on nye? lol
No the german guys should have beat the crap out those animals. Seems they are too infected by the train of thought some on this thread support.

I would guess this 17 year old has committed plenty of crimes already. Pulling a gun on someone is not a first timer kind of crime.

Here is my view. The trend of turning the person that committed the crime into a victim after the crime is nonsense. Had this guy not robbed effing shoes from someone, at gun point, he never would have been hit by the real victims suv. Honestly one less jackass wanna be thug or moron on the streets is not a bad thing. If you walk the straight and narrow, things like this will not happen to you. I have never been run down by a driver, hmmmm I wonder why? People like this used to be dealt with very differently years ago. Now they are allowed to become the victim of their own crimes. Disappointed in how lame society has become in dealing with the criminal element. It's time for this P.C. garbage to be thrown out the window, and people need to grow a pair.

both are criminal acts. one does not run over a guy who was making his get away. if a cop can't do it, you can't do it either.