Bernie Sanders Platform. Dangerous...Failed...Rehashed...and NOT "Revolutionary"

a reply to: interupt42

1) Trump is the only other Candidate speaking of Super Pacs also. (I'm not stumping for Trump here)

2) You cannot, in theory, support Sanders and be a Libertarian. Not even a Libertarian Socialist. Bernie follows NO Libertarian model out there.

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
The main ingredient, the main sentiment or driving force I read coming from Bernie Sanders supporters, are things like:

"Likability, sincere, honest, good egg, means well, trustworthy"

Guys, this isn't a vote for who your neighbor or boyfriend/girlfriend should be. This is a vote for a person that can literally make or BREAK the country....for long periods of time.

Exactly. Whats the problem here?

It's time to wake up and take real action. As a country, we are getting shafted pretty hard.
33% of our earnings go towards missiles and bombs and oil, opium and coc aine conquest.

Other great countries out there spend 44% on taxes and get healthcare, food, housing and free higher education for those in need.

I'm tired of being the "greatest nation in the world" with no health insurance, etc coming out of my taxes.

Why does the greatest nation in the world have the highest incarceration rate?

This isn't the 80's, we are totally screwed now and when you add outsourcing to China and bringing in robot workers in an ever increasing world population, this isn't the f### 1980's.

This is 2016 and we are about to implode.

So vote for Bernie and what? Did you read any of the OP?

a reply to: CornShucker

Blaming human nature is a cop out. The true culprit is long term conditioning. It's about time we started conditioning people something new. An egalitarian society wouldn't be that difficult to accomplish.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
a reply to: interupt42

1) Trump is the only other Candidate speaking of Super Pacs also. (I'm not stumping for Trump here)

2) You cannot, in theory, support Sanders and be a Libertarian. Not even a Libertarian Socialist. Bernie follows NO Libertarian model out there.

Poor Interupt, perpetually despised & disowned by his own kind.

Loved your thread on that topic btw

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
a reply to: interupt42

1) Trump is the only other Candidate speaking of Super Pacs also. (I'm not stumping for Trump here)

2) You cannot, in theory, support Sanders and be a Libertarian. Not even a Libertarian Socialist. Bernie follows NO Libertarian model out there.

Good. Who needs a model?

Why does everything need to be so organized and identifiable with some sort of brand or ideology?

I think America could probably handle it and I'm sure they will give it a name and a style so we can "grasp" the concept.

a reply to: CornShucker

Thanks

I'll check out the book too.

Additionally, Progressive Utopian ideals also are achieved through mass propaganda, Media "Chic", culture or counter culture, and pummeling of the host culture to make it 'cool and avant-garde" over enough time.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
Out of all the possible candidates on both sides of the aisle, he's the only one whose policies are least likely to result in the planet being a smoldering radioactive wasteland endorsed by God where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and the US military gets morphed into something that resembles Emperor Palpatines death star.

He can certainly do no worse than any other POTUS has done over the last 50 years.

1) He stated Russia as the big enemy recently. Because he's a Chicago School throwback, which were all Trosyists turned Neo-Cons, Cold War Era relics that believe anything Post USSR is bad. I wouldn't count him out for war.

As far as ISIS, or terrorism goes, I would GUARANTEE Bernie would be completely hands off.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

I can agree about your first point. Ron Paul boiled it down to a simple rule of thumb: We would be a lot better off is we would mind our own business unless some outside force makes that impossible.

Gotta pass on the second, though. Mr. Sanders seems like a good man, but the patient we have on the table is about ready to start flat-lining. "First Do No Harm"

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
a reply to: interupt42

1) Trump is the only other Candidate speaking of Super Pacs also. (I'm not stumping for Trump here)

2) You cannot, in theory, support Sanders and be a Libertarian. Not even a Libertarian Socialist. Bernie follows NO Libertarian model out there.

Good. Who needs a model?

Why does everything need to be so organized and identifiable with some sort of brand or ideology?

I think America could probably handle it and I'm sure they will give it a name and a style so we can "grasp" the concept.

1) Because words have meanings.

2) Yeah, the 'brand' is an offshoot off Marxism, turned "Democratic Socialism"....and wrapped in a bow.

Europe 19th Century. French revolution. Germany early 1900s. Europe Industrial Era. China Mid Century. Cuba. Soviet Union.

Same playbook outside of Mode and Means of Production.

There's nothing 'new' about Bernie.

originally posted by: Esoterotica
a reply to: CornShucker

Blaming human nature is a cop out. The true culprit is long term conditioning. It's about time we started conditioning people something new. An egalitarian society wouldn't be that difficult to accomplish.

Yeah, every kid wants to grow up to be a good little 'worker ant'. "What would you like to do when you grow up, little boy?" "Gee... I don't much care. As long as it's hot, dirty and involves hours and hours of mind-numbing repetition, I'm good.."

For some reason I'm suddenly having flashes of that Pink Floyd vid and all the kids on the conveyor belt...

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

If you think the Tax Foundation is a "very non-partisan" organization, you may want to spent a few moments doing some research with respect to it's Board members.

Loaded from top to bottom with Republicans and reps from Big Corporations.

I'd say that's about as "non-partisan" as they come.

In a right-winger's world anyway.

originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

If you think the Tax Foundation is a "very non-partisan" organization, you may want to spent a few moments doing some research with respect to it's Board members.

Loaded from top to bottom with Republicans and reps from Big Corporations.

I'd say that's about as "non-partisan" as they come.

In a right-winger's world anyway.

This is the page of the STAFF. Where in it do you find "Conservatives"?

I read almost the entire Bios on there and found ONE questionably.

taxfoundation.org...

And then you call me a "Right Winger"?

a reply to: Flatfish


Are you going to back up your post?

Republicans and from where? Big corporations? What do you mean?

Be specific

Trying to reason with a Liberal is like arguing with a drunk. You endure the screeching, weather the insults, and then get to pay the bill.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Thank you!

Everyone now a days is only concerned with illegal immigrants when their real focus should be on the Middle East. What other candidate has the ability to end these insane wars, drone strikes, and conflicts? Who else will stop spending over 14 million dollars a minute debt hole? We spend more money on our military than any country in the world, and there are no close second place winners. We're on our own level and no one comes close to spending as much as us.

This is insane and we can't afford it anymore, with money and lives!

So no republican will get my vote because they're all too quick to go to war and Hilary is worse than them all.

originally posted by: Esoterotica
a reply to: CornShucker

Blaming human nature is a cop out. The true culprit is long term conditioning. It's about time we started conditioning people something new. An egalitarian society wouldn't be that difficult to accomplish.

This is the sort of clinical social engineering mindset that deeply disturbs me.

"The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all, it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to put down dissent and originality."

-H. L. Mencken

a reply to: Esoterotica

If it was trump v bern I'd vote Bernie, mainly because I want to see drastic changes to America, for better or worse. 

Scary.
Vote for change... just because.... 'change', even if it is for the worse.

What is scary is that there may be enough of you for Bernie to pull it off.

Ya know.....Let'em vote him in. Let'em have their little "Utopia". Let. It. Bern. [ Did ya see that? See that play on his name? Neat huh? /sarc ]
Screw it. I am tired of seeing people who are taken in by every Joe Blow who promises them all the free sh*t they can carry and never give a thought to one basic rule. Nothing Is Free. I've said it before: Obama is Bernie Lite and look where his policies have gotten us. Now, they want to elect someone who makes Obama look like a Wall Street banker and they think it's going to be just peachy. Let'em have it.
They elected Obama and have since regretted it. Apparently they have a very short memory. But, I'm just waiting for the day when many will come back bitching about their paychecks, because Bernie's taxes have taken too much, how they can't find a job, because what use to be illegals have flooded the job market and the level of education has once again fallen, because, you know, all the best teachers work for free. Remember when Obama said he was going to give you Change and that's pretty much all you had in your pocket when he was done?
"But this time it's gonna be different! It's Bernie!!"
[ takes a sip from coffee cup, raises eyebrow ] "uh huh. Sure it is."

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I compliment you on a well written opening post.

I looked at the article you linked in the OP concerning Bernie Sanders tax plan. It is well referenced. The author utilizes Bernie Sander's own web site to define the input parameters to their in-house computer model.

The Taxes and Growth Model is quite well defined and described over the course of several articles, ranging from introductory topics to the advanced mathematics they employ to analyze the impacts of various tax proposals. The author also compares and contrasts their modeling decisions with other standard techniques.

The article Overview of the Tax Foundation’s Taxes and Growth Model provides a few more details about how the model works under the hood, including which public domain databases are used in their calculations.

It appears to me that this model may also be available for public consumption, but it's not clear how one would go about acquiring it.

There are a number of other recent articles available as well, including analysis of tax proposals by Rubio, Clinton, and Cruz, among others.

I point all of this out for those who may reject this research out-of-hand because of the Tax Foundation's alleged association with Republicans and Corporation Heads. It certainly looks like a great deal of research and ingenuity has gone into creating this modeling software. I would recommend for those who question the validity of this study to find one that contradicts what is presented here.

I like Bernie, but I pray that I don't have to vote for him.


-dex