Jesus isn't God, doesn't claim to be God and doesn't want to be worshipped.

a reply to: randyvs

If he were just a man? He would of turned and ran. Took
more than any man to do what Jesus did.

Plenty of men and women die, willingly, for a cause. You can also bet that plenty of innocent men were crucified just like your savior was.

The thing is, we're all Jesus. We all choose to leave God's side, sacrifice our divinity and venture into this temporary physical realm, where death is a guarantee. But the spirit is eternal.

We are spiritual beings enjoying a physical universe, a creation that is HIS WORD as we are HIS BREATH.

originally posted by: Rasalghul

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
You are a typical Scripture twister, taking things out of context, and not quoting material proving you wrong. Jesus is the very YHVH.

How did I twist scripture? Scripture twisting is saying Jesus is God when the bible says he isn't.

What scripture did I twist, and how?

You need to examine far more Scriptures than you have. A merely partial sample is not conclusive, and you need to include the Old Testament as well, as Jesus stated it spoke of Him.

Now in my research on Hell, I have read from Genesis 1:1, every book, every chapter, every verse. I have finished the Gospel of Mark, and have yet to find conclusive evidence of Hell. That is the kind of inclusive Bible research you need to practice. Gnostic sources do NOT count.

a reply to: Rasalghul

More than any man, but less than God, was Jesus.

It's down to splitting hairs really. Any Christian that pays attention
knows that Christ definitely points to the Father to be worshipped.
With prayer flowing thru him to the Father. And remember, the charge
against Jesus was blasphemy.

How can the OP argue against the testimony of Peter, that Jesus was the Christ? For that matter, how about the testimony of the Centurion, that He must have been the Son of God? I note that the OP fails to mention Jesus' "blasphemy" of claiming to the the "I AM."

a reply to: windword

My compliments to your extended knowledge in this forum
Winword. I'll just leave it there this time.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

You need to examine far more Scriptures than you have. A merely partial sample is not conclusive, and you need to include the Old Testament as well, as Jesus stated it spoke of Him.

Specifically, what Old Testament scriptures spoke of Jesus? Which ones was Jesus referring. Where in the Old Testament is it prophesied that the Jewish Messiah would be God incarnate?

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Rasalghul

I believe Jesus is the begotten Son of God.
This alone is why I am called a Christian.

This alone is why you call yourself a christian. Without works, your faith is little more than hypocrisy. This goes for all who claim to follow Jesus or any other icon of spirituality. Don't just talk the talk.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: intrptr

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins."

"Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.'"

"I and the Father are one."

"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."

"Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."

The concept of God's word manifesting on earth in a certain prophet can be found in the Zend Avesta, what we call the holy books of the Zoroastrians. The three Magi (Zoroastrian priests) were Zoroastrians or worshippers of Ahura Mazda. Zoroastrianism may be older than Judaism and is definitely older than Christianity. Greeks, Jews and Persians are all crucial to this tale of Jesus.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
How can the OP argue against the testimony of Peter, that Jesus was the Christ? For that jmatter, how about the testimony of the Centurion, that He must have been the Son of God? I note that the OP fails to mention Jesus' "blasphemy" of claiming to the the "I AM."

I actually mentioned the I AM comment, read it again.

Messiah or Christ means annointed one, not God. You need an anointer to be anointed. That's God.

a reply to: TzarChasm

This alone is why you call yourself a christian

Same ole trolling effect. You even quote what I said only
to fail at repeating it. And again I see no reason for your
post other than your obvious obsession with stocking mine.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: Rasalghul

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
You are a typical Scripture twister, taking things out of context, and not quoting material proving you wrong. Jesus is the very YHVH.

How did I twist scripture? Scripture twisting is saying Jesus is God when the bible says he isn't.

What scripture did I twist, and how?

You need to examine far more Scriptures than you have. A merely partial sample is not conclusive, and you need to include the Old Testament as well, as Jesus stated it spoke of Him.

Now in my research on Hell, I have read from Genesis 1:1, every book, every chapter, every verse. I have finished the Gospel of Mark, and have yet to find conclusive evidence of Hell. That is the kind of inclusive Bible research you need to practice. Gnostic sources do NOT count.

I have read and continuously read the bible. I did not twist scripture. I quoted from scripture. I will let that speak for itself, you can not refute me because I am not wrong. I hope you keep trying, it's fun.

originally posted by: Rasalghul

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: Rasalghul

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
You are a typical Scripture twister, taking things out of context, and not quoting material proving you wrong. Jesus is the very YHVH.

How did I twist scripture? Scripture twisting is saying Jesus is God when the bible says he isn't.

What scripture did I twist, and how?

You need to examine far more Scriptures than you have. A merely partial sample is not conclusive, and you need to include the Old Testament as well, as Jesus stated it spoke of Him.

Now in my research on Hell, I have read from Genesis 1:1, every book, every chapter, every verse. I have finished the Gospel of Mark, and have yet to find conclusive evidence of Hell. That is the kind of inclusive Bible research you need to practice. Gnostic sources do NOT count.

I have read and continuously read the bible. I did not twist scripture. I quoted from scripture. I will let that speak for itself, you can not refute me because I am not wrong. I hope you keep trying, it's fun.

It is good that you read your Bible, but some of its message is Spiritually discerned. Back on the Hell topic, lots of Christians never question Hell, even though their Bible begins with, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Notice there's no mention of Him also creating Hell? They just don't pick up on it. The Godhood of Jesus is like that to some. How can you ever get past "Behold the Nail, Behold the Hand"?

As for twisting Scripture, I propose that even if you do a quote, if you do not provide the full context, you have likely twisted the meaning.

a reply to: Rasalghul

I agree with you.

Matthew 3:17 -
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Hebrews 5:5 -
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Two different wordings both from KJV. One says it is his son, the other says "to day" he is son. If the second one is true verses the first then Jesus was blessed with God's spirit at age 33 not at birth.

Knowledge is power, and if that comes from books where did these so called "Churchians" learn?

a reply to: Lazarus Short

How can you ever get past "Behold the Nail, Behold the Hand"?

Simple! The Hebrew god is the Archetype of the Universe. The infamous Hebrew "Meeting Tent" hangs on ONE nail.



Attributing "Behold THE Hand, Behold THE Nail" to Jesus and his 3 nail crucifixion is either an apologetic stretch of the imagination or makes Jesus the most inept and clumsy "Divine Carpenter" of all times!

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: Rasalghul

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: Rasalghul

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
You are a typical Scripture twister, taking things out of context, and not quoting material proving you wrong. Jesus is the very YHVH.

How did I twist scripture? Scripture twisting is saying Jesus is God when the bible says he isn't.

What scripture did I twist, and how?

You need to examine far more Scriptures than you have. A merely partial sample is not conclusive, and you need to include the Old Testament as well, as Jesus stated it spoke of Him.

Now in my research on Hell, I have read from Genesis 1:1, every book, every chapter, every verse. I have finished the Gospel of Mark, and have yet to find conclusive evidence of Hell. That is the kind of inclusive Bible research you need to practice. Gnostic sources do NOT count.

I have read and continuously read the bible. I did not twist scripture. I quoted from scripture. I will let that speak for itself, you can not refute me because I am not wrong. I hope you keep trying, it's fun.

It is good that you read your Bible, but some of its message is Spiritually discerned. Back on the Hell topic, lots of Christians never question Hell, even though their Bible begins with, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Notice there's no mention of Him also creating Hell? They just don't pick up on it. The Godhood of Jesus is like that to some. How can you ever get past "Behold the Nail, Behold the Hand"?

As for twisting Scripture, I propose that even if you do a quote, if you do not provide the full context, you have likely twisted the meaning.

But I didn't even do that. I can't put the whole bible in a post, and my I AM section I provided enough scripture just so no one could accuse me of taking anything out of context.

Plus it's not my fault if someone doesn't know scripture, as long as I am quoting word for word and providing reference #s so people know were to go.

a reply to: luciferslight

Cool. I love this topic because it's so thoroughly provable.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Would you not first have to make thine eye single before you can spiritually understand scripture at all and be guided to understanding by the spiritual realm?

22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

He might be reading the scripture to not be your subjective view but that does not mean his ideas are illogical.

a reply to: infolurker

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

Polly want a cracker?

In the beginning of flight there was the Wright Brothers, and flight was with them, and flight was them. The same was in the beginning of flight with the Wright Brothers; all planes were made by them, and without them was not any plane made that was made.

Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. Matthew 22

Jesus ascribed divine attributes to himself in several places in the four gospels. And if you were a Jew at the time, you would have been extremely offended. Enough to tear your clothes off your body. Jesus knew this when he made those statements. You have already given the only verse needed to show that Jesus said very plainly that he was god in the flesh. "Before Abraham was, I AM". To you, this may simply be a statement of immortality or precedent, but to a Jew this is the ultimate blasphemy, and would have been understood as a personal claim to divinity and equality with God. Same as when Jesus said, "The Father and I are one". Jesus knew what he was saying, and also knew how his statements would be received. Biblically speaking, Jesus was Immanuel, and he said so on several occasions.

originally posted by: Klassified
Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. Matthew 22

Jesus ascribed divine attributes to himself in several places in the four gospels. And if you were a Jew at the time, you would have been extremely offended. Enough to tear your clothes off your body. Jesus knew this when he made those statements. You have already given the only verse needed to show that Jesus said very plainly that he was god in the flesh. "Before Abraham was, I AM". To you, this may simply be a statement of immortality or precedent, but to a Jew this is the ultimate blasphemy, and would have been understood as a personal claim to divinity and equality with God. Same as when Jesus said, "The Father and I are one". Jesus knew what he was saying, and also knew how his statements would be received. Biblically speaking, Jesus was Immanuel, and he said so on several occasions.

Immanuel is a name. Anything with an el on the end from Daniel to Gabriel, angels and humans, has God in its meaning. I don't recall anyone calling him Immanuel, it's written in Matthew but that nor having divine attributes makes you God.

Satan, Gabriel, Michael, Raphael all have divine attributes assigned to them by God. But they are not God.

Jesus got mad at a kid for calling him GOOD. "Only God is good." Was his angered reply. So Imagine how mad he would be if the kid had called him GOD?