Jesus isn't God, doesn't claim to be God and doesn't want to be worshipped.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
What better way to insult the Messiah who taught to love God and worship him alone than to call him God against his teachings. Jesus prayed to God, not the other way around

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: 2012newstart

So eliminated how then? You basically said all non Christians need to be eliminated.

- I never said that, in the meaning you put it.

Son of God doesn't = God as Jesus has the same God we do. Even prays to God. Does God pray to Jesus?

- I believe in Lord Jesus as the only Son of God, and expect the time when the Jews wil accept Him too, to allow Him to come back

my responses are in bold

Jewish people are brothers who expect the same whom the Christians expect. Or may be his sons.

a reply to: 2012newstart

Choose your words wisely, you say eliminated, who? How and why?

a reply to: ChesterJohn

The answer to John 1:1 is to study the Greek and it's real meaning, Greek Trinitarians don't use it to support their belief because they know it doesn't, they use other scriptures. And also the context John 1:18 a few verses later explains it very well

18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.

Small "g" and he is at his fathers side, I can't be my father if I am beside him.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

See that is what I mean the answer is always go back to the Greek and change the meaning.

Instead of just believing what is says as God preserved it.

I guess I am just a lone man of faith in these days but I believe it where it says it that that's it.

I guess I will just remain in the dark forever.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Actually accepting Jesus Christ as the Son of God, is natural, like every ruler there is always a second in command.
For God Almighty who is that, if it isn't Jesus Christ ?
He is the perfect reflection of his Father.

So to me this scripture explains it really well Philippians 2: 5-11

5 Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.
7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human.
8 More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake.
9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name,
10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground
11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

That scripture explains Jesus before his time as a human, his time as a human, and after he went back to heaven.
The best way I can explain it in human terms that are understandable, is Jesus got a promotion, after he gave his life up, and his boss(God) promoted him in rank. He now held the highest rank in the universe next to God himself, now humans and even angels would have to bend the knee to him, as well, and it wouldn't be idolatry.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

That's close but not quite right...
Allow me to introduce you to theology...
This term explains this far better than any of you can...
and it's all based on scripture...
HYPOSTATIC UNION...
carm.org...

a reply to: Rasalghul

I would like you to note one thing though. Love believes all things. That includes all things that God has recorded and preserved faithfully for us in his sacred word, the Holy Scriptures of truth.

I have seen time and again, so many people that claim to believe certain parts, while rejecting others, as you do, and those you are refuting do.

But you all have one thing in common. If what Scripture states does not agree with your thinking, instead of molding your thinking to the healthful words of truth that lead to everlasting life, you reject them, and despise them.

If you want life you must search through your heart and prepare it, and learn to love God's word. Otherwise it will never get a firm anchor in your soul and you will be tossed about like a lost ship on the sea, as are all the rest that do not believe in God's word.

And what a pity that would be.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

That's close but not quite right...
Allow me to introduce you to theology...
This term explains this far better than any of you can...
and it's all based on scripture...
HYPOSTATIC UNION...
carm.org...

You seem sincere, and your calling out the Antichrist who blasphemes against Jesus is well and good.

But BlueJay is correct, the scripture is not in error.

a reply to: JackReyes
Jack, I like you and you can educate me anytime but please don't tell me how to interpret the bible. I'm not uneducated I read it everyday and I have come to many conclusions since I stopped scripture selective reading and started reading it as a regular book. I did a cover to cover reading last year reading a portion a day and studying the rest and I completed it Dec. 31.

And it changed my whole perspective, I actually do know what I am talking about.

Just don't judge my soul or tell me I'm wrong unless you can prove it.

But you're a good dude, I'll hear what you have to say anytime

Peace be with you.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: JackReyes
Jack, I like you and you can educate me anytime but please don't tell me how to interpret the bible. I'm not uneducated I read it everyday and I have come to many conclusions since I stopped scripture selective reading and started reading it as a regular book. I did a cover to cover reading last year reading a portion a day and studying the rest and I completed it Dec. 31.

And it changed my whole perspective, I actually do know what I am talking about.

Just don't judge my soul or tell me I'm wrong unless you can prove it.

But you're a good dude, I'll hear what you have to say anytime

Peace be with you.

I appreiate that about you. That you take out the time to read God's word.

You know, I'm not here to tell you I am better, or greater, I am not proud. I am no one. But what I do have is faith in God's word. I have studied it as well, and have come to the conclusion that it really is God's word, and not that of man's.

There is a reason so many people hate Paul's words. And I think it has to do with the fact that, after Jesus, Jehovah used him, the most in the Greek Scriptures (New Testament) to explain a lot of sacred secrets of truth, which Satan and his demons despise.

In the first century one of his "thrones in the flesh" were false Christians who opposed him at every turn, and it has happened all the way up to our day. Such was the powerful witnessing Paul did for Jehovah God.

I will share a brief experience with you, if you will indulge me. When I was young, if I recall it was 12 or 13, I made it my aim to read the entire Bible in a year. And my brother did as well. And we both had the same chart that we would follow. I kept to it, and so did he.

After the year was up, we had both read the Bible from cover to cover.

Later on in life, I learned that he did not believe a lot of what was taught in it, as do you. While I came away with a totally different outlook on what I was reading.

And I wondered, what had happened. How could I see things in it, he just could not. While he tried to teach to me that a lot of it was all fables and myths.

Then I realized that we both set out with different aims when we started to read it, something I didn't realize at the time. I just wanted to get to know God better. To get closer to him, to understand his mind, the way thought, to try and be more like him. To learn and apply in my life.

And I read a lot of things that told me my thinking was wrong and I needed to change. And I really wanted to, and I still do. And every single time before I sat down to read the Bible, and up until today, I would pray humbly to God for his holy spirit to understand it. Not to have knowledge or wisdom, or understanding, but to reflect his love.

My brother I learned, when he sat down to read the Bible it was too look for inconsistencies, to prove it was false, and to brag that he had done it, and to gain superior knowledge.

I grew closer to Jehovah, he grew away from Jehovah.

Up to this day I understand many scriptures which Jehovah has revealed to me, not because I wanted knowledge, but because I loved truth, and had faith in his word, and always prepared my heart, and always had faith in him.

And after the more than a dozen times reading it from end to end, and many places many many more times than that, the more I realize I don't know about his word. But the more I realize I talk with many people who think they know it all, and when I try to engage the majority of people who read the Bible in conversation about it, I am rejected. It is a very small majority of people who have come to understand it the way I have.

I do not say that to brag. It is just an observation. Even among my brothers in the truth, I have found this to be the case.

When you study God's word, do it with humility and lowliness of mind. Let it mold you. Jehovah is the Potter. And we are the clay. And God's word is alive and exerts power. It is alive. And it is able to penetrate into the very marrow of your soul to discern your thoughts and the intentions of your heart.


And if we allow ourselves to be molded by his word, then we become vessels of beautiful appearance before God. If your heart becomes hard, and you refuse to allow it to be molded by the things it tells you, then you are of no benefit to God.

I ask that you mediate on these words, because I see sincerity in your heart.

a reply to: JackReyes

Good story, that is the same thing I did last year, with intentions like yours, and I am doing it this year too.

I don't reject the bible , it's scripture. The same way you feel God reveals things to you, I feel he does for me is all.

As far as Paul goes, I first realized the flaws in his story and his contradictory teachings (f.I. preaching against circumcision but making Timothy get it done) while reading his epistles.

The only thing is we interpret it differently. I don't have a problem with that, but there is no possibility I will ever change my mind about him being false prophet. Just letting you know so you don't waste energy better spent elsewhere.

I do appreciate your thoughts though, any other subjects I will discuss with you anytime.

a reply to: Rasalghul

I appreciate your words.

But perhaps you can consider Paul and Timothy's background.

They were coming from the Jews into Christianity. And although Paul knew that the Mosaic law was no longer needed, he did not want to offend Jews. So out of his love for Jews, he compelled Timothy to become circumcised. Not that he needed to any longer.

Paul himself said that he became all things to people of all sorts that some might be saved:



(1 Corinthians 9:20-23) . . .to those under law I became as under law, though I myself am not under law, in order to gain those under law. 21 To those without law I became as without law, although I am not without law toward God but under law toward Christ, in order to gain those without law. 22 To the weak I became weak, in order to gain the weak. I have become all things to people of all sorts, so that I might by all possible means save some. 23 But I do all things for the sake of the good news, in order to share it with others.


The proper way to understand this, is to first figure out how the person you are dealing with believes and thinks. And then, don't just say the same thing, but adapt. Do everything in your power to become like them, and reason like them, that perhaps they might be persuaded to understand the truth.

For example, with a Jew, I will only quote Hebrew scriptures. Or with someone that only believe in what Jesus said, I would only quote from the gospels.

With an evolutionist or atheist, I might quote scripture without even mentioning I am, but all the time, I am adapting myself at all times with them, so that I might gain someone who may listen.

Jesus did the same with the tax of the drachma if you remember.

a reply to: JackReyes

This is the way of love. It is not to be greater, or know more. But to have affection, to understand how you feel, and to respect it. At the same time, try to adjust your understanding correctly.

a reply to: JackReyes

the word you're looking for is "empathy"

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: JackReyes

the word you're looking for is "empathy"

Yes. Good point. Empathy, that and human-kindness. But one that goes beyond normal human understanding. But that must retain the normal human kindness.

a reply to: JackReyes


Is there normal human kindness?

Seems to be a rarity to me... though that is what the media wants people to believe

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: JackReyes


Is there normal human kindness?

Seems to be a rarity to me... though that is what the media wants people to believe

Yes, of course it is normal. That is why it is called human. When the human-kindness does not come,d that is not what is normal. And yes, this epic in which we have entered is not normal or humane.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: 2012newstart

Choose your words wisely, you say eliminated, who? How and why?

you take words completely out of context. I never called for what you imply. NEVER.
How about the rest of my words that usually reach the limit of each post, and I have to shorten them for that reason? You don't comment them, nor the ideas I express. That are far wider than limited bickering in many posts over issues not so important only to kill time. I respect you have started the thread, but that is all from me. I will not respond any longer.
For whoever wants to read my reflections and to develop those directions of thought, is very welcome in my threads. That doesn't mean I will respond 100% to anyone, but it means I already said the things and don't see the need to repeat them all again. Especially when they are not welcome.