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If you claim to follow Jesus, but reject His disciples, you reject Jesus and His word.

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posted on Feb, 13 2016 @ 04:01 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut


Even if Paul did write all 13 books & letter attributed to him (scholars think he actually only wrote 8 of them) then that means that the majority of books in the New Testament weren't written by Paul.

All the stuff attributed to Paul is only 20% of the New Testament. That means four fifths of the NT are NOT Pauline.

The four Gospels alone account for 48% of the NT.


Does that matter when one is talking about the content?

How much of the NT did Jesus write





posted on Feb, 13 2016 @ 04:28 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: LittleByLittle

The term Chakra has no place in a discussion of biblical or Christian matters.

I have no particular aversion to the term, or its origins, but it does not have relevance to Christ or any of the contents of the bible. The man is wrong to conflate anything that could be discerned from study of Chakra, with any thing one could learn from the study of the Bible.



22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

makes ya wonder eh...



And the light will cause the physical body to vibrate in different intensity depending on the flow of light and you will be able to calm another bodies by flowing light into them if you choose to.
edit on 13-2-2016 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2016 @ 04:28 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

I think it is unwise to suggest that the disciples did not recognise the trinity, although it is accurate to say they never mention it in those terms.

They recognised the Holy Spirit, they recognised God, and they recognised Jesus. They may not have referred to them as a trio, but they knew them all the same.



posted on Feb, 13 2016 @ 04:33 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Fair enough...

take a quick look at this thread... IF you will

The commandment that Wasn't Followed...

and tell me what you think?




posted on Feb, 13 2016 @ 04:51 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

There is a difference between a Commandment, capital C, and a commandment.

A Commandment is part of the law handed down to Moses on the mount, and is therefore serious business. Failure to comply with those means that some manner of atonement or repentance is required. What you are describing is not one of those. It is part of the instruction manual for welcoming people into the arms of Christ and by extension, the flock. The only important factor of a person arriving in the arms of Christ, is that they get there, not the words or ritual bullsnip which gets prattled along the way.

Hell, you could go down to the water, put the tune "Free Bird" on, and dunk your head for the same effect as a baptism, as long as the intention to arrive in the arms of Christ is there. It is NOT science, but faith, and faith, like God himself, does not operate in straight lines and with rigidity, but with ineffabililty and fluidity.



posted on Feb, 13 2016 @ 05:08 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit



There is a difference between a Commandment, capital C, and a commandment.


well it wasn't a commandment technically...

more like direction on one of the most important acts that must be done to be "saved"

Ironically said direction was given after his death but that is not the point




posted on Feb, 13 2016 @ 05:22 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
I was content with leaving this thread alone, until you said this...


You on the other hand, have constructed your own Christ with the help of your emotions.

Every Christian I've ever known, including myself, constructs their own Christ. Note that everybody's god always believes the same things they do. This is the reason there are thousands of sects. Jesus said "Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks". And Jeremiah said "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Yet this is exactly where the majority of Christendom lives, and their perception of who they think Jesus is/was comes from there.

As to rejecting the disciples: I could argue that we have no idea who Jesus disciples were, and what they actually said, but that is beyond the scope of your thread...

I don't think Jesus put the disciples above reproach by saying if they heard me, they will hear you. None of them were infallible. The bible makes that quite clear. Jesus statement was in general terms. If they were walking the talk, people would either hate them or love them, just as they did Jesus. Biblically speaking, just because someone rejects the teachings of Paul, does not equate to a rejection of Christ. I think your perception of that scripture goes beyond Christ's meaning. At least, in my opinion.
edit on 2/13/2016 by Klassified because: edit



posted on Feb, 13 2016 @ 07:54 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

failure to rightly divide the word of truth will lead men down dark paths.



posted on Feb, 13 2016 @ 08:08 AM
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a reply to: Klassified

Can you make a list of the thousands of sects of Christianity?

There are Presbyterian, Anglican, Baptist(Anabaptist roots include So Bapt, independents etc. . .), Lutheran(following close to the Catholics in practice), Nazarene, Methodist, Conservative Christians Churches (which have churches from the listed sects), Pentecostal Revivalists, non-denominational groups like Calvary Chapel, Living word, Victory chapel, Bread of Life etc . . .

Cult groups like Mormons, Jehovah Witness, Church of Christ, Catholic church (east and west) etc . . .

Then you have groups that USE the Bible but are not Christian like Church Universal and Triumphant, Unitarianism, Gnosticism etc . . .

But thousands? Maybe you are thinking that because there are so many church buildings and 501c type groups, you see thousands of sects but what you fail to see is many of these groups believe Jesus Christ died in their place for their sins and rose again to give justification and eternal life to those who believe on him.

I am just saying. There are not thousands the Body of Christ is one not thousands. church groups will come and go but the body of Christ is spiritual and will live forever. no groups can claim to be that unless they have the Holy Ghost Eph1:13, Jesus Col 1:27, and God Eph 4:6 living in them.


edit on 13-2-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2016 @ 09:05 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn


Maybe you are thinking that because there are so many church buildings and 501c type groups, you see thousands of sects but what you fail to see is many of these groups believe Jesus Christ died in their place for their sins and rose again to give justification and eternal life to those who believe on him.

And what you fail to see is what you just did...


Cult groups like Mormons, Jehovah Witness, Church of Christ, Catholic church (east and west) etc . . .

Your interpretation is right, and theirs is wrong. From their perspective, it's the other way around. This is why you have so many independent churches who claim no denomination. World Christian Encyclopedia numbers them at 22000. Then you have sub-sects of the major denominations, as well as breakaways, reformed, and so on. I may not necessarily agree with the grand total of tens of thousands, but I can certainly agree with thousands.

If this...


believe Jesus Christ died in their place for their sins and rose again to give justification and eternal life to those who believe on him.

...were the only factor considered in determining denomination and legitimacy, you wouldn't even need to name off the several you did. They would all just be Christian, instead of the division that exists among you.


There are not thousands the Body of Christ is one not thousands

That's what i keep hearing, and yet you labeled the largest Christian denomination on the planet a cult.

Here's your list...
World Christian Encyclopedia
As stated above, I may not agree with 33000, but I do agree with thousands. WCE is one source among many for arriving at that conclusion. To deny that Christianity is just as divided as any other religion, is disingenuous imo.



posted on Feb, 13 2016 @ 09:22 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest




Sure. His name, Yehoshu'a, means "YHWH is salvation", and as Murgatoid's video so clearly delineates, Jesus had a habit of stating, 'I am that I am'.


There were countless Jewish boys and men named Joshua. Jesus, is merely the Greek translation of the name, much like Juan and John. There is nothing magical in a common name.



posted on Feb, 13 2016 @ 12:12 PM
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a reply to: infolurker
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

And in such a act God had created the Kingdom of God and the gates of hell will not prevail against it .



posted on Feb, 13 2016 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: Klassified

do you know what a Christian Cult is?

These are the ways to know if a group is a Christian cult.

1) They use the Bible but have practices not found in the Bible. Lighting of candles, absolution of sin by decree (RC), mandatory Sabbath day observance 7th day Adv/) etc . . '

2) Their own publication that they deem of more authority than the Bible. Watchtower magazine (Jehovah witnesses), Knights of Columbus periodicals (Roman Catholicism), Book of Mormon (LDS), Writing and books of Ellen G White (7th day adventist). Etc . . . .

3) Men rule in mediation or in place of Christ i.e. Roman Catholicism i.e. Mary, the Priests, Bishops, Cardinals and Pope. The vicar of Christ literally translated in place of Christ.

5) Works based salvation usually under the Kingdom Gospel and not the gospel of the grace of God. i.e. penance, absolution for works like Crusades, Lent, repentance of sins, confession to men of your sins.


edit on 13-2-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2016 @ 08:13 PM
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a reply to: Klassified

I never said that Jesus put the disciples above reproach. What I said was that those who reject the message of the disciples reject the message of Christ.

There is much disagreement between denominations on the subject of Christ, but most of them are in agreement that Jesus died as a propitiation for our sin. This was Jesus' message as the Lamb of God, and it was taught extensively by the Apostles.
edit on 13-2-2016 by BELIEVERpriest because: typo



posted on Feb, 13 2016 @ 08:18 PM
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a reply to: windword

True, but this Yehushu'a was born of a virgin as predicted by Isaiah, died on the cross as the suffering servant as predicted by Isaiah, and claimed to be God. Furthermore, His impact was so significant that it survived almost 2,000 years of history despite multiple attempts by various kingdoms to extinguish the truth.



posted on Feb, 14 2016 @ 08:27 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I accept the message of the apostles but I also know for whom their message was for by right division.
edit on 14-2-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2016 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest




True, but this Yehushu'a was born of a virgin as predicted by Isaiah, died on the cross as the suffering servant as predicted by Isaiah, and claimed to be God. Furthermore


Isaiah's character doesn't die and is never, therefore, resurrected. Isaiah's character doesn't claim to be God Almighty in the flesh.

Isaiah's character is the personification of Israel.



His impact was so significant that it survived almost 2,000 years of history despite multiple attempts by various kingdoms to extinguish the truth.


Christianity was promoted relentlessly, violently, and by the end of the sword. Christianity was FORCED upon the western world.


edit on 14-2-2016 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2016 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

And who were those messages for?



posted on Feb, 14 2016 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Who was presented with the Gospel of the Kingdom?

Answer that and you know who it is for.



posted on Feb, 14 2016 @ 09:18 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

The gospel was presented to the world for the elect who were to be chosen out of the world.


John15:19“If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. 20“Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21“But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me.


Of the few who believe the Gospel of Salvation, fewer will live by the Gospel of the Kingdom.





Matt 8: 11“I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; 12but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 13And Jesus said to the centurion, “Go; it shall be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed that very moment.


Salvation is threefold:

1). Rebirth of the Human Spirit by Believing in Christ. (John 3:3-16)

2). The Sanctification and cleansing of the garments of the Human Soul by Abiding in Christ. This is what you call the Gospel of the Kingdom and this is what the First Epistle of John focuses on. (John 15:1-11)

3). The Resurrection of the Human Body into immortality. This is the White Pebble of Rev 2:17. If you believe in Christ, you get a Resurrected Body/White Pebble of Acquittal, but only those who Sanctify their Souls by Abiding in Christ receive the "new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it". (Rev 2:16-17)

edit on 14-2-2016 by BELIEVERpriest because: added scriptural reference

edit on 14-2-2016 by BELIEVERpriest because: typo




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