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If you claim to follow Jesus, but reject His disciples, you reject Jesus and His word.

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posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 10:33 PM
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This thread is primarily directed to those who offer lip service to Jesus of Nazareth. To those who claim to live by His words and believe them to be divinely inspired, but yet continue to deny His divinity, His death for our sins, His resurrection, and the testimony of His disciples, whom He charged with spreading His gospel. If you don't believe in Jesus or His words, then don't bother with this thread. It would be a waste of your time and mine.

So, if you reject the NT epistles written by Luke, Peter, John, James, and Jude, to name a few, you are essentially rejecting Jesus' message to the world.



John 15:20“Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also


There you go, straight from Jesus' own mouth.


Notice that it was Jesus' will that the disciples tend to His flock.


John 21:15So when they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Tend My lambs.” 16He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Shepherd My sheep.” 17He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus said to him, “Tend My sheep.


Now lets look and what one of Jesus' Apostles had to say concerning Christ and His blood...remember that Jesus accepted the title "Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world", from John the Baptizer, just before being baptized.


1 John 1:7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.



1 John 2:1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.



1 John 4:9By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. 10In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

The Apostle John teaches us (in the above citations) that the Blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. Jesus told us not to sin, but if we still do sin, He Himself is our propitiation.

Jesus also claimed to be YHWH on multiple occasions.



Revelation 2:8 8“And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life, says this:

The title First and Last is a clear reference to the OT God, YHWH, in Isaiah.



Isaiah 66:This is what YHWH, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, YHWH of Armies, says: "I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.


Jesus was the God of Israel in Exodus 3.



Exodus 3:God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"



John 8:Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."


I think this is a good start. I will continue to post more evidence, citing the words of Jesus' appointed Apostles. And for all you Paul haters, out there, I will be avoiding his words, but it makes no difference. Paul taught what Jesus taught. Paul's teachings are also reflected in the epistles of the other Apostles who were appointed by Jesus,...the same Apostles who accepted Paul as one of their own.

So, if you reject the NT epistles, then you reject Jesus, and do not know His Father.
edit on 12-2-2016 by BELIEVERpriest because: proof reading

edit on 12-2-2016 by BELIEVERpriest because: typos




posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 10:43 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest



if

-Jesus


Maybe they didn't?


edit on 12-2-2016 by Bybyots because: . : .



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 10:47 PM
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a reply to: Bybyots

Your saying that perhaps the disciples deviated from Jesus' message? If that is the case, then Jesus died in vein, as His efforts would have been undermined by His own students. I don't believe that to be the case, but it is a matter of faith.


edit on 12-2-2016 by BELIEVERpriest because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 10:48 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Funny you didn't mention Paul, even though you said you wouldn't be avoiding him... He rejected the apostles words and refused to follow what they said... "Those that would seem to be pillars" he said... as if his teaching had more importance

And Jesus did not confirm YHWH... revelation wasn't Jesus speaking

Nor did he claim to be "the first and the last" alpha and omega...

By his very words he came after the father... not at the same time... The Father came before the son, and IF he did not HE could not be a Father, just as Jesus could not be a son...

taking a page from Arius there...

edit on 12-2-2016 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

Actually, that was an honest typo. I meant to say that I WILL purposely be avoiding Paul since it tends to upset your stomach.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins."

"Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’"

"I and the Father are one."

"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."

"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

"Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."

"Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades."



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 11:02 PM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest


And Jesus did not confirm YHWH... revelation wasn't Jesus speaking

Nor did he claim to be "the first and the last" alpha and omega...



Right there, what you just wrote was a rejection of what Jesus communicated to His own appointed Apostle (John). This is exactly what I mean, going back to John 15:20.
edit on 12-2-2016 by BELIEVERpriest because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 11:07 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
Jesus also claimed to be YHWH on multiple occasions. Jesus was the God of Israel in Exodus 3.

I believe this is true as well.

Have you seen the video below?

It connects a lot of dots...

EDIT: Just noticed in the comments below the video that the author (Simon Brown) does not believe in the trinity.

I'm not sure if I will be recommending this source anymore in the future, this is a major red flag IMHO...


Jesus is saying ‘It is me, do you see in Genesis 1:26. Yes, me, I was with your ancestors right at the beginning when I made you in my image and likeness. I came to your ancestors, yes, me Jesus in Genesis 3:8 as the Lord God as I was walking in the garden in the cool of the day and your ancestors hid from me among the trees.

It was me Jesus who spoke to your ancestors saying “Where are you?” It was me, Jesus the Lord God, who made the garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. It was me, Jesus Christ your Lord God, who appeared with my two angels to meet Abraham near the great trees of Mamre. It was me, your Lord God Jesus Christ (YESHUA) in Exodus 6:2, when I said to Moses, I AM the LORD who appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty.




edit on Feb000000Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:19:20 -060011pm29Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:19:20 -060020161912 by Murgatroid because: felt like it...



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 11:11 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
So, if you reject the NT epistles written by Luke, Peter, John, James, and Jude, to name a few, you are essentially rejecting Jesus' message to the world.

So, if you reject the NT epistles, then you reject Jesus, and do not know His Father.


If a person has a personal relationship with your Jesus, their perspective is every bit as valid as any other adherent of his who claimed to speak in his name. Unless you are rejecting Jesus's message that he directly gave, you are only rejecting other Christians, nothing more.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 11:16 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Oh so this thread was for me... im honored

a reply to: infolurker

No need to quote the passages that Christians love to use to claim Jesus to be God... I know them all... and the OT ones they use as proof... you're wasting your time

thanks anyways though


edit on 12-2-2016 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 11:17 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest


And Jesus did not confirm YHWH... revelation wasn't Jesus speaking

Nor did he claim to be "the first and the last" alpha and omega...



Right there, what you just wrote was a rejection of what Jesus communicated to His own appointed Apostle (John). This is exactly what I mean, going back to John 15:20.


Please feel free to point out where Jesus used the name YHWH




posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 11:19 PM
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a reply to: Murgatroid

A lot of good points in that video. Thank you.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 11:20 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Yeah, but what metric is used to determine how far that if is distributed over the writings of the disciples?

Why would Jesus use such ambiguous language?




posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 11:21 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

Sure. His name, Yehoshu'a, means "YHWH is salvation", and as Murgatoid's video so clearly delineates, Jesus had a habit of stating, 'I am that I am'.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 11:24 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon

Sure. His name, Yehoshu'a, means "YHWH is salvation", and as Murgatoid's video so clearly delineates, Jesus had a habit of stating, 'I am that I am'.



that's called Christian dogma... means nothing...

the personality of the OT god is nothing like the one Jesus describes... that's quite simply because they are not the same entity...

the NT says God is Love... the OT god does not even know the word




posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 11:26 PM
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a reply to: Bybyots

sorry, I misunderstood your first comment.

Well, Jesus was saying, "If (maybe or maybe not) they (the world) kept my word, they will keep yours." So Jesus is essentially saying, that a true believer in Him will not reject the word of His disciples. In other words, your attitude towards the NT epistles is the litmus test for your attitude towards Christ.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 11:27 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriestJesus also claimed to be YHWH on multiple occasions.


Indeed. If you plug in the very ancient phonetic meanings of those four letters, you get "Behold, the Hand, Behold, the Nail." Most Bibles cover this up, just as they cover up the real name of God with the euphemism "LORD."



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 11:29 PM
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originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon

Sure. His name, Yehoshu'a, means "YHWH is salvation", and as Murgatoid's video so clearly delineates, Jesus had a habit of stating, 'I am that I am'.



that's called Christian dogma... means nothing...

the personality of the OT god is nothing like the one Jesus describes... that's quite simply because they are not the same entity...

the NT says God is Love... the OT god does not even know the word



Its called discernment.




Matt 13:"Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 11:31 PM
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a reply to: Lazarus Short

This is very true. In fact, most of the Hebrew language is self defining if you know what the pictograms mean. Thank you for pointing that out.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 11:32 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon

Sure. His name, Yehoshu'a, means "YHWH is salvation", and as Murgatoid's video so clearly delineates, Jesus had a habit of stating, 'I am that I am'.



that's called Christian dogma... means nothing...

the personality of the OT god is nothing like the one Jesus describes... that's quite simply because they are not the same entity...

the NT says God is Love... the OT god does not even know the word



Its called discernment.




Matt 13:"Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.


No...

its called being oblivious to the obvious... which most IF not all of Christianity is guilty of

sadly enough





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