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When Bob Lazar Declared Gravity As a Wave

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posted on May, 2 2017 @ 10:45 PM
link   
a reply to: Box of Rain

Great reply and I appreciate the effort, however, it still proves the point that anyone making an absolute statement of fact about something absolutely none of us can prove fundamentally nullifies any argument regarding Bob's authenticity.

It is simply reduced to opinion only. And opinion is not viable when attempting to discredit someone.

And to your great example about you reading about scientific theories and then concocting a story regarding an alien craft well consider this. What if the then theories of gravity as a wave and the hypothesized existence of a heavy metal were validated by the recovery of an extraterrestrial craft? What I mean is it took an ET craft with technological capabilities we were yet unfamiliar with to prove gravity actually did function as a wave or that element 115 did actually exist.




edit on 2-5-2017 by Outlier13 because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 3 2017 @ 01:17 AM
link   

originally posted by: Outlier13

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Brotherman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: bananasam
The media was celebrating this week about the groundbreaking discovery that gravitational waves are real and not just a theory formed by Einstein in 1918.

30 years ago, Bob Lazar told the press that the propulsion systems he worked on used gravitational waves. It gets more interesting when you realize that he actually insisted they were the correct theory. And also this is the 2nd theory that came true from him after the discovery of Element 115. This one is more amazing though because in some ways you could say Element 115 was inevitable.

Here's an excerpt:

Lazar: There are currently two main theories about gravity. The "wave" theory which states that gravity is a wave and the other is a theory which includes "gravitons", which are alleged sub-atomic particles which perform as gravity, which by the way, is total nonsense.

Lazar: Anyway, gravity is a wave and there are two different types of gravity. Gravity A and gravity B. Gravity A works on a small or "micro" scale and gravity B works on a larger or "macro" scale. We're familiar with gravity B...

Lazar had his fair share of criticisms, but out of every single person in this UFO research, at least 2 of his quantifiable assertions have come true before anyone knew the answer - one of which is almost a century old.


Gravity waves were also fairly inevitable. Just hard to detect.


I have to ask as a neutral party here as I dont care about bob lazar more then just some guy insaw on sightings back in the 90's, if he was such an idiot as everyone makes him to be and people went well out of their way *cough Stanton Friedman cough* to make it appear as though he was basically educated, how would element 115 and gravity waves been an inevitable conclusion for someone no better educated then most 11th graders from a year ago?
I'm not stupid but i never looked at gravity waves as being an inevitable discovery.

ETA: When I asked this question the poster didn't have all that other stuff added JS


Element 115 was first described, theoretically, in 1975 by Burkhard Fricke in this paper. The predictions in the paper are far more accurate than Lazar's. The paper also existed well before Lazar's claims and was somewhat famous at the time (among a particular group).

Now we know a lot more about 115 and it has nothing like the properties Lazar suggested. The 115 number and Ununpentium name existed well before Lazar.

Similarly, gravitational waves are a prediction of Einstein's relativity, a proof that it works as theorized. They have been damn hard to detect, partially because they 'wave reality like a flag' so everything we try to use to detect them gets wobbled around by the same amount.


n 1869 a Russian chemist named Dmitri Mendeleev first theorized about not just element 115 but many other as yet to be discovered / created heavy elements.

Because Dmitri Mendeleev was the first known scientist to theorize about element 115's existence does it negate and nullify Burkard Fricke? Of course it does not but the same argument is being applied in this thread regarding Bob Lazar. I see a lot of hypocrisy in the arguments in this thread. The truth is we cannot disprove what Bob Lazar has claimed for so long.


Dmitri Mendeleev proposed the position in the periodic table of elements of element 115. He only theorized about a place-holder and made no particular predictions about the element other than that it would likely be a pnictogen and a basic metal.

Burkard Fricke, in his paper, specifically made prediction about the chemical attributes and stability of element 115 (which is now called Moscovium and used to be called Ununpentium).

Despite the existing scientific estimation of the attributes of element 115, Bob Lazar chose quite different attributes, which have not proven to be the case in actuality.

Using an existing approximate description, but not getting anything else correct, does not constitute 'a prediction' in even the very loosest sense of the term.



posted on May, 3 2017 @ 04:12 AM
link   

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: 3danimator2014

Can you show where he made money off of them?


I don't need to show you, use your common sense.

- interviews
-writing articles
-be coming known by telling amazing tales to help his business ventures
-I'm sure he's written books too.

Use your common sense.


Oh that proves it. Good one.



posted on May, 3 2017 @ 05:41 AM
link   

originally posted by: Outlier13
a reply to: Box of Rain

Great reply and I appreciate the effort, however, it still proves the point that anyone making an absolute statement of fact about something absolutely none of us can prove fundamentally nullifies any argument regarding Bob's authenticity.

It is simply reduced to opinion only. And opinion is not viable when attempting to discredit someone.

And to your great example about you reading about scientific theories and then concocting a story regarding an alien craft well consider this. What if the then theories of gravity as a wave and the hypothesized existence of a heavy metal were validated by the recovery of an extraterrestrial craft? What I mean is it took an ET craft with technological capabilities we were yet unfamiliar with to prove gravity actually did function as a wave or that element 115 did actually exist.


But his explanations of the science were even wrong. As i posted earlier showing he is clueless about science and trying to pass himself off as a scientists is funny at best and fraud at worst. Look at his stupid claim about element 115. He actually claimed the government has 500 pounds of the stuff and he managed to steal some.But off course the government stole it back so lets look at reality. There was indeed an announcement in early 2004 about the production of 4 atoms of element 115 by operating a huge European accelerator for many weeks. It has a very short half life so there is no way to accumulate pounds of it. The element is so unstable it only lasts a millionth of a second before it decays.

So now we know for a fact this element is useless and not within the island of stability we are looking for. He even lied about his degrees hes supposedly got a masters degree from MIT but wait he also claims one from caltech.Why would you get two no one has even done that,And if they did very likely one college would pull their doctorate. I call BS on his BS, When you check on them like people have he claims the government erased the records how convenient.

Oh and physicists even at his time didnt believe gravity to be a wave like he claimed. He misunderstood Einstein's field equations. Gravity waves isnt what creates gravity like he claims. This is why his engine supposedly manipulates these but even if you could manipulate them which would require two masses each having the mass of thousands of our suns. They do zero good you can use them to do anything. They are an effect of two gravitational masses interacting.

So when you claim he was right on the science you couldnt be further from the truth.
edit on 5/3/17 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2017 @ 09:37 AM
link   

originally posted by: dragonridr

He misunderstood Einstein's field equations. Gravity waves isnt what creates gravity like he claims.


Yes. This is one of the biggest problems with Lazar's claims. That is, he gets gravity all wrong. He talks about "gravitational waves" as being waves by which gravity propagates. But that is a totally incorrect view of gravity as we know it; gravity is NOT a wave. That's not what is meant by "gravitational waves". Instead, a gravitational wave is a ripple in space time.

The difference may sound subtle in layman's terms, but the difference is actually significant.

Granted, one could argue that Lazar is so ahead of our scientific understanding that he knows more than mainstream science, or his ideas are correct and mainstream science is the wrong one, BUT that needs to be shown, not just explained away with a vague "but, but, what if HE'S right and science is wrong?"



posted on May, 3 2017 @ 11:07 AM
link   

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Outlier13

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Brotherman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: bananasam
The media was celebrating this week about the groundbreaking discovery that gravitational waves are real and not just a theory formed by Einstein in 1918.

30 years ago, Bob Lazar told the press that the propulsion systems he worked on used gravitational waves. It gets more interesting when you realize that he actually insisted they were the correct theory. And also this is the 2nd theory that came true from him after the discovery of Element 115. This one is more amazing though because in some ways you could say Element 115 was inevitable.

Here's an excerpt:

Lazar: There are currently two main theories about gravity. The "wave" theory which states that gravity is a wave and the other is a theory which includes "gravitons", which are alleged sub-atomic particles which perform as gravity, which by the way, is total nonsense.

Lazar: Anyway, gravity is a wave and there are two different types of gravity. Gravity A and gravity B. Gravity A works on a small or "micro" scale and gravity B works on a larger or "macro" scale. We're familiar with gravity B...

Lazar had his fair share of criticisms, but out of every single person in this UFO research, at least 2 of his quantifiable assertions have come true before anyone knew the answer - one of which is almost a century old.


Gravity waves were also fairly inevitable. Just hard to detect.


I have to ask as a neutral party here as I dont care about bob lazar more then just some guy insaw on sightings back in the 90's, if he was such an idiot as everyone makes him to be and people went well out of their way *cough Stanton Friedman cough* to make it appear as though he was basically educated, how would element 115 and gravity waves been an inevitable conclusion for someone no better educated then most 11th graders from a year ago?
I'm not stupid but i never looked at gravity waves as being an inevitable discovery.

ETA: When I asked this question the poster didn't have all that other stuff added JS


Element 115 was first described, theoretically, in 1975 by Burkhard Fricke in this paper. The predictions in the paper are far more accurate than Lazar's. The paper also existed well before Lazar's claims and was somewhat famous at the time (among a particular group).

Now we know a lot more about 115 and it has nothing like the properties Lazar suggested. The 115 number and Ununpentium name existed well before Lazar.

Similarly, gravitational waves are a prediction of Einstein's relativity, a proof that it works as theorized. They have been damn hard to detect, partially because they 'wave reality like a flag' so everything we try to use to detect them gets wobbled around by the same amount.


n 1869 a Russian chemist named Dmitri Mendeleev first theorized about not just element 115 but many other as yet to be discovered / created heavy elements.

Because Dmitri Mendeleev was the first known scientist to theorize about element 115's existence does it negate and nullify Burkard Fricke? Of course it does not but the same argument is being applied in this thread regarding Bob Lazar. I see a lot of hypocrisy in the arguments in this thread. The truth is we cannot disprove what Bob Lazar has claimed for so long.


Dmitri Mendeleev proposed the position in the periodic table of elements of element 115. He only theorized about a place-holder and made no particular predictions about the element other than that it would likely be a pnictogen and a basic metal.

Burkard Fricke, in his paper, specifically made prediction about the chemical attributes and stability of element 115 (which is now called Moscovium and used to be called Ununpentium).

Despite the existing scientific estimation of the attributes of element 115, Bob Lazar chose quite different attributes, which have not proven to be the case in actuality.

Using an existing approximate description, but not getting anything else correct, does not constitute 'a prediction' in even the very loosest sense of the term.


But neither of the predecessors were correct as they were in theory mode as well. As far as I am aware Bob was stating they were only using element 115. Not researching it's properties. And if they were using it in an environment or device i.e. ET propulsion system that exploited the then unknown properties of element 115 this would lend precedence to Lazar's claims. For in the absence of a device which exploits these properties his and all predecessors would be unaware by virtue of them not having a similar device.



posted on May, 3 2017 @ 11:12 AM
link   
He seems to know so much about gravity.



posted on May, 3 2017 @ 11:14 AM
link   

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Outlier13
a reply to: Box of Rain

Great reply and I appreciate the effort, however, it still proves the point that anyone making an absolute statement of fact about something absolutely none of us can prove fundamentally nullifies any argument regarding Bob's authenticity.

It is simply reduced to opinion only. And opinion is not viable when attempting to discredit someone.

And to your great example about you reading about scientific theories and then concocting a story regarding an alien craft well consider this. What if the then theories of gravity as a wave and the hypothesized existence of a heavy metal were validated by the recovery of an extraterrestrial craft? What I mean is it took an ET craft with technological capabilities we were yet unfamiliar with to prove gravity actually did function as a wave or that element 115 did actually exist.


But his explanations of the science were even wrong. As i posted earlier showing he is clueless about science and trying to pass himself off as a scientists is funny at best and fraud at worst. Look at his stupid claim about element 115. He actually claimed the government has 500 pounds of the stuff and he managed to steal some.But off course the government stole it back so lets look at reality. There was indeed an announcement in early 2004 about the production of 4 atoms of element 115 by operating a huge European accelerator for many weeks. It has a very short half life so there is no way to accumulate pounds of it. The element is so unstable it only lasts a millionth of a second before it decays.

So now we know for a fact this element is useless and not within the island of stability we are looking for. He even lied about his degrees hes supposedly got a masters degree from MIT but wait he also claims one from caltech.Why would you get two no one has even done that,And if they did very likely one college would pull their doctorate. I call BS on his BS, When you check on them like people have he claims the government erased the records how convenient.

Oh and physicists even at his time didnt believe gravity to be a wave like he claimed. He misunderstood Einstein's field equations. Gravity waves isnt what creates gravity like he claims. This is why his engine supposedly manipulates these but even if you could manipulate them which would require two masses each having the mass of thousands of our suns. They do zero good you can use them to do anything. They are an effect of two gravitational masses interacting.

So when you claim he was right on the science you couldnt be further from the truth.


There is no way I am going to believe anything the US government says regarding element 115. It took 10 years for it to even come to light that element 115 had been produced by the Russians. Why do you think that is? Any information made available to the general public is very specific information. You nor I have absolutely no way whatsoever of corroborating the accuracy or authenticity of Lazar or anyone else's statements about the use of element 115. You are making the assumption that Lazar's claims are false in the absence of any evidence. This is a logical fallacy. I would be guilty of a logical fallacy making an opposing claim.

All of my responses relative to this subject in this thread have simply been that people in this thread are giving opinions only. No one has or can produce any concrete evidence supporting for or against Lazar's claims. Therefore it is ridiculous to argue if he is being truthful or not based on what he is saying alone.



posted on May, 3 2017 @ 12:41 PM
link   
a reply to: Outlier13

No your making stuff up it didnt take 10 years before everyone knew about element 115. And we know about the element his claims were flat out wrong. If the element only remains in existence less than a second it has no practical use. Reason being is even an attempt to cature the element would take longer than it can survive. As much as you want to believe and i see you do he didnt know much more about science than you do. As i explained he severely misunderstood Einstein's gravity waves.


But the problem is he based his imaginary engine on his misunderstanding. And when we have done experiments and verified predictions means hes wrong. So you want to claim his right look at my previous post and tell me where im wrong and we can discuss. If you cant well that means hes wrong.



posted on May, 3 2017 @ 04:18 PM
link   
a reply to: Outlier13




And if they were using it in an environment or device i.e. ET propulsion system that exploited the then unknown properties of element 115 this would lend precedence to Lazar's claims.

That argument seems to be quite circular. You are saying that if Lazar was telling the truth, then he was right.


edit on 5/3/2017 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2017 @ 04:29 PM
link   

originally posted by: Outlier13

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Outlier13

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Brotherman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: bananasam
The media was celebrating this week about the groundbreaking discovery that gravitational waves are real and not just a theory formed by Einstein in 1918.

30 years ago, Bob Lazar told the press that the propulsion systems he worked on used gravitational waves. It gets more interesting when you realize that he actually insisted they were the correct theory. And also this is the 2nd theory that came true from him after the discovery of Element 115. This one is more amazing though because in some ways you could say Element 115 was inevitable.

Here's an excerpt:

Lazar: There are currently two main theories about gravity. The "wave" theory which states that gravity is a wave and the other is a theory which includes "gravitons", which are alleged sub-atomic particles which perform as gravity, which by the way, is total nonsense.

Lazar: Anyway, gravity is a wave and there are two different types of gravity. Gravity A and gravity B. Gravity A works on a small or "micro" scale and gravity B works on a larger or "macro" scale. We're familiar with gravity B...

Lazar had his fair share of criticisms, but out of every single person in this UFO research, at least 2 of his quantifiable assertions have come true before anyone knew the answer - one of which is almost a century old.


Gravity waves were also fairly inevitable. Just hard to detect.


I have to ask as a neutral party here as I dont care about bob lazar more then just some guy insaw on sightings back in the 90's, if he was such an idiot as everyone makes him to be and people went well out of their way *cough Stanton Friedman cough* to make it appear as though he was basically educated, how would element 115 and gravity waves been an inevitable conclusion for someone no better educated then most 11th graders from a year ago?
I'm not stupid but i never looked at gravity waves as being an inevitable discovery.

ETA: When I asked this question the poster didn't have all that other stuff added JS


Element 115 was first described, theoretically, in 1975 by Burkhard Fricke in this paper. The predictions in the paper are far more accurate than Lazar's. The paper also existed well before Lazar's claims and was somewhat famous at the time (among a particular group).

Now we know a lot more about 115 and it has nothing like the properties Lazar suggested. The 115 number and Ununpentium name existed well before Lazar.

Similarly, gravitational waves are a prediction of Einstein's relativity, a proof that it works as theorized. They have been damn hard to detect, partially because they 'wave reality like a flag' so everything we try to use to detect them gets wobbled around by the same amount.


n 1869 a Russian chemist named Dmitri Mendeleev first theorized about not just element 115 but many other as yet to be discovered / created heavy elements.

Because Dmitri Mendeleev was the first known scientist to theorize about element 115's existence does it negate and nullify Burkard Fricke? Of course it does not but the same argument is being applied in this thread regarding Bob Lazar. I see a lot of hypocrisy in the arguments in this thread. The truth is we cannot disprove what Bob Lazar has claimed for so long.


Dmitri Mendeleev proposed the position in the periodic table of elements of element 115. He only theorized about a place-holder and made no particular predictions about the element other than that it would likely be a pnictogen and a basic metal.

Burkard Fricke, in his paper, specifically made prediction about the chemical attributes and stability of element 115 (which is now called Moscovium and used to be called Ununpentium).

Despite the existing scientific estimation of the attributes of element 115, Bob Lazar chose quite different attributes, which have not proven to be the case in actuality.

Using an existing approximate description, but not getting anything else correct, does not constitute 'a prediction' in even the very loosest sense of the term.


But neither of the predecessors were correct as they were in theory mode as well. As far as I am aware Bob was stating they were only using element 115. Not researching it's properties. And if they were using it in an environment or device i.e. ET propulsion system that exploited the then unknown properties of element 115 this would lend precedence to Lazar's claims. For in the absence of a device which exploits these properties his and all predecessors would be unaware by virtue of them not having a similar device.



Sure, and Lazar invented fire and singlehandedly won the minus oneth world war by applying philogiston (element 361.5) to his inner thighs and then he jumped into an alternate anti-universe where he actually caused the war creating a negative reality inversion which won the war in this universe.




posted on May, 3 2017 @ 04:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: Outlier13

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Outlier13
a reply to: Box of Rain

Great reply and I appreciate the effort, however, it still proves the point that anyone making an absolute statement of fact about something absolutely none of us can prove fundamentally nullifies any argument regarding Bob's authenticity.

It is simply reduced to opinion only. And opinion is not viable when attempting to discredit someone.

And to your great example about you reading about scientific theories and then concocting a story regarding an alien craft well consider this. What if the then theories of gravity as a wave and the hypothesized existence of a heavy metal were validated by the recovery of an extraterrestrial craft? What I mean is it took an ET craft with technological capabilities we were yet unfamiliar with to prove gravity actually did function as a wave or that element 115 did actually exist.


But his explanations of the science were even wrong. As i posted earlier showing he is clueless about science and trying to pass himself off as a scientists is funny at best and fraud at worst. Look at his stupid claim about element 115. He actually claimed the government has 500 pounds of the stuff and he managed to steal some.But off course the government stole it back so lets look at reality. There was indeed an announcement in early 2004 about the production of 4 atoms of element 115 by operating a huge European accelerator for many weeks. It has a very short half life so there is no way to accumulate pounds of it. The element is so unstable it only lasts a millionth of a second before it decays.

So now we know for a fact this element is useless and not within the island of stability we are looking for. He even lied about his degrees hes supposedly got a masters degree from MIT but wait he also claims one from caltech.Why would you get two no one has even done that,And if they did very likely one college would pull their doctorate. I call BS on his BS, When you check on them like people have he claims the government erased the records how convenient.

Oh and physicists even at his time didnt believe gravity to be a wave like he claimed. He misunderstood Einstein's field equations. Gravity waves isnt what creates gravity like he claims. This is why his engine supposedly manipulates these but even if you could manipulate them which would require two masses each having the mass of thousands of our suns. They do zero good you can use them to do anything. They are an effect of two gravitational masses interacting.

So when you claim he was right on the science you couldnt be further from the truth.


There is no way I am going to believe anything the US government says regarding element 115. It took 10 years for it to even come to light that element 115 had been produced by the Russians. Why do you think that is? Any information made available to the general public is very specific information. You nor I have absolutely no way whatsoever of corroborating the accuracy or authenticity of Lazar or anyone else's statements about the use of element 115. You are making the assumption that Lazar's claims are false in the absence of any evidence. This is a logical fallacy. I would be guilty of a logical fallacy making an opposing claim.

All of my responses relative to this subject in this thread have simply been that people in this thread are giving opinions only. No one has or can produce any concrete evidence supporting for or against Lazar's claims. Therefore it is ridiculous to argue if he is being truthful or not based on what he is saying alone.


So you won't believe established chemistry and physics principles and the untold number of people around the world involved in this field, you won't believe anything the governments have to say regarding it, but you will happily take the WORD of one man, who offers no proof and has been proven wrong countless times.

Cool. Carry on.



posted on May, 3 2017 @ 06:59 PM
link   

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Outlier13




And if they were using it in an environment or device i.e. ET propulsion system that exploited the then unknown properties of element 115 this would lend precedence to Lazar's claims.

That argument seems to be quite circular. You are saying that if Lazar was telling the truth, then he was right.



That's not what I am saying. You're not understanding the point of my example.

Let's assume Lazar was telling the truth. He could still be wrong in the assumptions that were made. After all they were reverse engineering the propulsion system. Not making another one. They were trying to understand how the various components worked in an effort to reproduce them. There could have been multiple failed attempts at reproducing results. Failed attempts based on a lack of understanding of how gravity actually works as well as how element 115 affects or is affected by gravity. We will never know.

Read through the entire thread of replies from people. Everyone is making absolute statements regarding information they cannot prove. All of a sudden we have a forum full of element 115 experts and gravity as a wave experts when these 2 topics are about as obscure as you can get. People choose to believe one source and not another when neither source can actually validate their claims.



posted on May, 3 2017 @ 07:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Outlier13

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Outlier13
a reply to: Box of Rain

Great reply and I appreciate the effort, however, it still proves the point that anyone making an absolute statement of fact about something absolutely none of us can prove fundamentally nullifies any argument regarding Bob's authenticity.

It is simply reduced to opinion only. And opinion is not viable when attempting to discredit someone.

And to your great example about you reading about scientific theories and then concocting a story regarding an alien craft well consider this. What if the then theories of gravity as a wave and the hypothesized existence of a heavy metal were validated by the recovery of an extraterrestrial craft? What I mean is it took an ET craft with technological capabilities we were yet unfamiliar with to prove gravity actually did function as a wave or that element 115 did actually exist.


But his explanations of the science were even wrong. As i posted earlier showing he is clueless about science and trying to pass himself off as a scientists is funny at best and fraud at worst. Look at his stupid claim about element 115. He actually claimed the government has 500 pounds of the stuff and he managed to steal some.But off course the government stole it back so lets look at reality. There was indeed an announcement in early 2004 about the production of 4 atoms of element 115 by operating a huge European accelerator for many weeks. It has a very short half life so there is no way to accumulate pounds of it. The element is so unstable it only lasts a millionth of a second before it decays.

So now we know for a fact this element is useless and not within the island of stability we are looking for. He even lied about his degrees hes supposedly got a masters degree from MIT but wait he also claims one from caltech.Why would you get two no one has even done that,And if they did very likely one college would pull their doctorate. I call BS on his BS, When you check on them like people have he claims the government erased the records how convenient.

Oh and physicists even at his time didnt believe gravity to be a wave like he claimed. He misunderstood Einstein's field equations. Gravity waves isnt what creates gravity like he claims. This is why his engine supposedly manipulates these but even if you could manipulate them which would require two masses each having the mass of thousands of our suns. They do zero good you can use them to do anything. They are an effect of two gravitational masses interacting.

So when you claim he was right on the science you couldnt be further from the truth.


There is no way I am going to believe anything the US government says regarding element 115. It took 10 years for it to even come to light that element 115 had been produced by the Russians. Why do you think that is? Any information made available to the general public is very specific information. You nor I have absolutely no way whatsoever of corroborating the accuracy or authenticity of Lazar or anyone else's statements about the use of element 115. You are making the assumption that Lazar's claims are false in the absence of any evidence. This is a logical fallacy. I would be guilty of a logical fallacy making an opposing claim.

All of my responses relative to this subject in this thread have simply been that people in this thread are giving opinions only. No one has or can produce any concrete evidence supporting for or against Lazar's claims. Therefore it is ridiculous to argue if he is being truthful or not based on what he is saying alone.


So you won't believe established chemistry and physics principles and the untold number of people around the world involved in this field, you won't believe anything the governments have to say regarding it, but you will happily take the WORD of one man, who offers no proof and has been proven wrong countless times.

Cool. Carry on.


You can reach all you want. Show me the quantifiable evidence that proves / disproves gravity as a wave and the quantifiable evidence that explains in its entirety exactly how element 115 interacts with gravity. I can punch holes into physics all day long. The first thing our professor taught us is science is not absolute and there exist logical fallacies all throughout science. Absolute space and time is a concept and a philosophy in physics which is as far from evidence as you can get. This forum is full of pseudo experts who regurgitate what they find from a quick Google search in an effort to sound intelligent to make themselves feel better.

I'm pointing out all of the BS arguments on here relative to people claiming another person is a liar. If you choose not to believe a person you should quantify it with legitimate reasons and not emotionally driven ones.



posted on May, 3 2017 @ 07:07 PM
link   

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Outlier13

No your making stuff up it didnt take 10 years before everyone knew about element 115. And we know about the element his claims were flat out wrong. If the element only remains in existence less than a second it has no practical use. Reason being is even an attempt to cature the element would take longer than it can survive. As much as you want to believe and i see you do he didnt know much more about science than you do. As i explained he severely misunderstood Einstein's gravity waves.


But the problem is he based his imaginary engine on his misunderstanding. And when we have done experiments and verified predictions means hes wrong. So you want to claim his right look at my previous post and tell me where im wrong and we can discuss. If you cant well that means hes wrong.


Ha ha! I'm not "making stuff up". Do some due diligence and quit pretending to be an expert. I'm certainly not.



posted on May, 3 2017 @ 07:31 PM
link   

originally posted by: Outlier13

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Outlier13




And if they were using it in an environment or device i.e. ET propulsion system that exploited the then unknown properties of element 115 this would lend precedence to Lazar's claims.

That argument seems to be quite circular. You are saying that if Lazar was telling the truth, then he was right.



That's not what I am saying. You're not understanding the point of my example.

Let's assume Lazar was telling the truth. He could still be wrong in the assumptions that were made. After all they were reverse engineering the propulsion system. Not making another one. They were trying to understand how the various components worked in an effort to reproduce them. There could have been multiple failed attempts at reproducing results. Failed attempts based on a lack of understanding of how gravity actually works as well as how element 115 affects or is affected by gravity. We will never know.

Read through the entire thread of replies from people. Everyone is making absolute statements regarding information they cannot prove. All of a sudden we have a forum full of element 115 experts and gravity as a wave experts when these 2 topics are about as obscure as you can get. People choose to believe one source and not another when neither source can actually validate their claims.


Here we go again just because you believe something doesnt make it true. You want to believe there is some grey area here in science. There isnt we now and have created the element 115 and we have even proven the existance of gravity waves so we understand them. At the time he obviously didnt understand either one. So your argument is basically well his entire reverse engineered science is wrong. And if that is wrong his entire story falls apart.



posted on May, 3 2017 @ 07:34 PM
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originally posted by: Outlier13

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Outlier13

No your making stuff up it didnt take 10 years before everyone knew about element 115. And we know about the element his claims were flat out wrong. If the element only remains in existence less than a second it has no practical use. Reason being is even an attempt to cature the element would take longer than it can survive. As much as you want to believe and i see you do he didnt know much more about science than you do. As i explained he severely misunderstood Einstein's gravity waves.


But the problem is he based his imaginary engine on his misunderstanding. And when we have done experiments and verified predictions means hes wrong. So you want to claim his right look at my previous post and tell me where im wrong and we can discuss. If you cant well that means hes wrong.


Ha ha! I'm not "making stuff up". Do some due diligence and quit pretending to be an expert. I'm certainly not.


Well i am i happen to have a PHD in chemical engineering and physics. So feel free to show me anything i said that is not factual. Ive looked over his claims and its not even science its wild speculations and misunderstandings of real science.

PS there are several on here that have PHDs in all kinds of science this is not the place to try to pass off garbage science.
edit on 5/3/17 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 12:22 AM
link   

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Outlier13

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Outlier13

No your making stuff up it didnt take 10 years before everyone knew about element 115. And we know about the element his claims were flat out wrong. If the element only remains in existence less than a second it has no practical use. Reason being is even an attempt to cature the element would take longer than it can survive. As much as you want to believe and i see you do he didnt know much more about science than you do. As i explained he severely misunderstood Einstein's gravity waves.


But the problem is he based his imaginary engine on his misunderstanding. And when we have done experiments and verified predictions means hes wrong. So you want to claim his right look at my previous post and tell me where im wrong and we can discuss. If you cant well that means hes wrong.


Ha ha! I'm not "making stuff up". Do some due diligence and quit pretending to be an expert. I'm certainly not.


Well i am i happen to have a PHD in chemical engineering and physics. So feel free to show me anything i said that is not factual. Ive looked over his claims and its not even science its wild speculations and misunderstandings of real science.

PS there are several on here that have PHDs in all kinds of science this is not the place to try to pass off garbage science.


It's been in publicly printed information that element 115 was not disclosed until 10 years after it was supposedly synthesized in a lab. For someone with a PHD one would think you would know that. You're going to tell me physics deals in absolutes? That's laughable. So essentially you have an "advanced degree" in theory and speculation. I have the same level of cognitive ability for free. Feed your ego all you want. You still are who you are at this moment.

Did your PHD teach you how to structure or understand an argument? I'm talking about something entirely different than what you continue to deviate from.



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 12:30 AM
link   

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Outlier13

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Outlier13




And if they were using it in an environment or device i.e. ET propulsion system that exploited the then unknown properties of element 115 this would lend precedence to Lazar's claims.

That argument seems to be quite circular. You are saying that if Lazar was telling the truth, then he was right.



That's not what I am saying. You're not understanding the point of my example.

Let's assume Lazar was telling the truth. He could still be wrong in the assumptions that were made. After all they were reverse engineering the propulsion system. Not making another one. They were trying to understand how the various components worked in an effort to reproduce them. There could have been multiple failed attempts at reproducing results. Failed attempts based on a lack of understanding of how gravity actually works as well as how element 115 affects or is affected by gravity. We will never know.

Read through the entire thread of replies from people. Everyone is making absolute statements regarding information they cannot prove. All of a sudden we have a forum full of element 115 experts and gravity as a wave experts when these 2 topics are about as obscure as you can get. People choose to believe one source and not another when neither source can actually validate their claims.


Here we go again just because you believe something doesnt make it true. You want to believe there is some grey area here in science. There isnt we now and have created the element 115 and we have even proven the existance of gravity waves so we understand them. At the time he obviously didnt understand either one. So your argument is basically well his entire reverse engineered science is wrong. And if that is wrong his entire story falls apart.


Show me the evidence and not speculative theory that proves gravity waves and don't point to the $500M project where injection groups were used to throw off the scientists. That, too, is laughable.

Lastly, learn to comprehend the point of a discussion if you are going to interject yourself. You were not a part of this conversation but if you want to come by and take sucker punches then expect to get hit back.



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 09:01 PM
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What everyone seems to forget about Lazar's claims, is that he claimed to be working on a project to reverse engineer technology from an alien space ship.


Ok.... so he probably didn't finish reverse engineering it to the point where he now knows everything about it. More likely he and the other researchers had working hypotheses about how it worked.

A term like "gravity wave" might be technically incorrect from the perspective of the larger physics community, but that doesn't meant the research team working on the space ship necessarily kept itself to conventions. You kind of have to think outside the box a bit when you're reverse engineering something nobody on our planet has any idea how to do.


Also, the researchers he was working with might have arrived at a theory that the material they were experimenting on was a stable version of element 115. But how would they know? What tests could they conduct to be certain? All they would be certain of is that they had a super heavy element with properties unknown in any existing material.



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