Storms ravage Northen Europe - at least 15 dead (from ATSNN)

Hurricane lilke storms have thrashed Northen Europe, including Sweden, Denmark, Germany and Britain, Ireland and parts of Russia, causing flooding. It has killed at least 15 people and rendered hundreds of thousands without power and hundreds homeless.



Another climatic disaster on the eve of the Asian Tsunamis and at the same time as the storms in the US. I think it can no longer be dismissed that the world is indeed undergoing severe climate changes. How worse will it get.

[edit on 9-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Strange times we live in. It could get much worse, though.

I dont know what will become of us this year.

Is there any mention in the article (don't feel like subscribing) that these storms are a result of the tsunami? I mean, it was a huge freaking quake, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility out of hand before jumping on the "Major Global Climate Change" bandwagon.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I think it can no longer be dismissed that the world is indeed undergoing severe climate changes. How worse will it get.

Its unfortunate that people suffer as a result of these storms. What makes you think that they are anything unusual?

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I think it can no longer be dismissed that the world is indeed undergoing severe climate changes. How worse will it get.

Its unfortunate that people suffer as a result of these storms. What makes you think that they are anything unusual?

I asked in the last thread where we discussed climate change. How many more climatic disaster will it take before you realise something isn't right?
These storms are taking place simultaneously with the US storms. They are both rare events. Just a year earlier, US was ravaged by four major hurricanes, an event that experts said was very rare. Two weeks ago tsunamis destroyed many coastal cities. All these rare events are occuring in the same time frame.

That is what is unusual about it.

[edit on 9-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

This is happening almost exactly as written by Bell and Streiber in "The Coming Global Superstorm". All the signs are their. Its very freaky actually.

Originally posted by Indy
This is happening almost exactly as written by Bell and Streiber in "The Coming Global Superstorm". All the signs are their. Its very freaky actually.

Tell me more about what "Bell and Streiber" wrote?

It has been a while so my memory may be a bit rusty. Plus I have just seen again The Day After Tomorrow which had so much ripped from the book and distorted. So someone correct me if I'm off on something. The book is actually strange reading in my opinion. There are two stories going on at the same time. One tells a story about what happened in the past and the other story tells about what may happen in the future. It alternates between the two.

One of the things they talk about which was brought up in the movie was about buoys that were assumed to be failing because of large water temperature drops. This past spring/summer I noticed a few off the northeat coast of the US that were experiencing wild temperature swings. I am talking double digit daily temperature changes. That doesn't happen in non-stormy seas. They also talk about a growing temperature differential in the atmosphere. That is happening today as well. Basically bizzare storms in unusual places, extreme storms, endless series of storms. Basically total chaos. I know I need to crack the book open again to refresh my memory on the details. Maybe someone else here has read the book recently. The number of storms seems to have jumped greatly this past year.

Think about what has happened in the past few weeks alone. Flooding in Southern California. Snow in Southern Texas and parts of Mexico. Record rains and snows across many places in the US. The killer storm that just hit Northern Europe. Snow in the UAE. Ice bergs off of New Zealand. This is just some of the events in 2 weeks.

The book The Coming Global Superstorm is 4 years old I believe. You might find it at a discount book store.

I remember a time way back in the late 70's early 80's all news stations were talking about a very strange cloud covering over all of the U.S and America. A dark, low lying and thick dismal cloud moving quickly eastward yet not dissipating, bringing with it hail storms. Of course the world as we know it was ending, the preachers and doomsayers were taking to the airwaves in masses and everyone was terrified, including me, a very young person who with my family, reached for the Bible to try first and foremost to console ourselves that this was not the end. We met at my sister's 35th floor apartment which at that time held a bird's eye view of the city of Toronto.

As we were discussing the possibilities etc., the time came when the clouds started to roll in, and they were ominous, unlike anything I have ever witnessed before or since. They were truly dark, thick and moving quickly. Then the hail started to pelt the windows, the skies were black in the early afternoon, and we listened intently to the television news on this phenomenon. We were truly afraid, believing that this was a first and a last. An event that triggered the end. Within one half hour it had passed over us, and within an hour when the skies were clear we wondered why this continent covering apocalyptic event was rendering blue skies. Needless to say we breathed a sigh of relief as we began to understand that everyone blew a major disturbance out of proportion, and we, being the fickle creatures that we are, were quite willing to dispense with rationality and fall prey to the doomsday sayers.

The earth has had many simultaneous events in the past, and like back in those days, we are still here. Instead of looking to call the end of the world into focus, it may be better to investigate some of mother mature's more furious anger outbursts and how they can travel across thousands of kilometers, maybe even the globe. Does it really mean that when upper North America is experiencing unsettling climate, that Europe should be basking in tolerant conditions? I don't think so.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I think it can no longer be dismissed that the world is indeed undergoing severe climate changes. How worse will it get.

Its unfortunate that people suffer as a result of these storms. What makes you think that they are anything unusual?

I live in the part of Sweden that to my knowledge was hit among the worst. 33 meters/second winds - alot of people are left witout electricity and even more without phones.

This is NOT a common occurance here in Scandinavia. Whether its a direct aftereffect from the Quake/Tsunami in Asia I dont know for sure. It wouldnt suprise me if it was.

People can believe what they want about weird weather, eventually they will have to wake up the fact that something is really happening, that can not be talked away as normal "bad weather".

*Sigh*

Look, I now there have been doomday prophets in the past. That does not mean that the actual "doomsday" events happening now are false. On the contrary, these are actual facts and all of these are very rare events converging into a single a small time-frame of a few years. It is not something to to be dimissed and doing so would be foolish. This kind of complaceny just echoes the attitude of the scientific community in The Day After Tomorrow.

We all like think that global warming is a future threat. As long as it lies in the future and does not affect our immediate realiy. It does not matter. Wrong! It would be fruitful to actually prepare for the climate changes taking place. However, if you need more "signs" then keep watching and hope you still have enough time to prepare.

[edit on 10-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by dgtempe
I dont know what will become of us this year.

At least start looks good, 0 C instead of -20 C which is normal for this time of year.

Weather has changed much in last fifteen years here in Finland, souhern coast doesn't even have real winter anymore because instead of snow they get only rain, and instead of normal calm snowing they get that snow from storms and it melts fast.
(neither forgetting storms causing seawater to flood to streets and basements of buildings are becoming much more frequent)

Also here where I live amount of snow has decreased significantly.


Arctic Climate Impact Assessment

Maybe this will get those thinking "Doesn't affect to me, not my problem" people to consider things from other perspectives than that of their own belly.
news.nationalgeographic.com...


It won't be end of the world, but it will definitely make life of human specie much more miserable.
I'll just hope that it will make life of those ones responsible/who could change things miserable before anything bigger happens.

All mareographs of Finnish Institute of Marine Research measured record high sealevel.
And for example in one city in Eastern part of Gulf of Finland sealevel was two meters above normal and caused "little" flooding.


And from other countries.
In Estonia one third of country was without power and in Latvia half of the country.
And in Kärdla, Hiiumaa (Estonia) wind peaked at 41 m/s.

In sweden they're expecting to get railroad networks "back to schedule" on thursday because they have little cleaning of fallen trees and repairing damages.


Finnish Institute of Marine Research doesn't yet have english page but content should be clear enough.
www.fimr.fi...

BTW, didn't break current wave height record... which was made by previous storm few weeks ago.
www.fimr.fi...


Some photos taken by stormchasers.
koti.mbnet.fi...
www.mantynen.com...
mikko.rauhala.net...

Whitley Strieber's The Coming Global Superstorm is indeed a very interesting read. The idea for the book stemmed directly from Strieber's encounter with a very unusual individual (as described in his book The Key) - for this reason, I believe it has very high credibility. Strieber himself is quite a credible, down-to-earth, hardworking person.

The Day After Tomorrow did not rip off information from Superstorm! It is based on it! Strieber endorsed the film and participated heavily in its making (at least as much as he could, with Hollywood and all). He wrote the novelization of the film.

The film was made in an attempt by Strieber and people with more money than Strieber to warn the public of the danger it could face using media that would gather the largest possible audience. With moderate success, although some parts of the movie were....retarded.

The important point of Strieber's theory (which is really not his, originally) is the North Atlantic current: it requires a certain difference between cold and warm water to function. Decreased salinity in the oceans due to melting ice means different freezing temepratures and cooling behaviors - this disrupts the conveyor carrying warm air to England, Scandinavia, and in general, to the Northern hemisphere. If the temperature differential is not enough, the warm air flow stops. The current stops. If that happens, I suggest you evacuate as far down south as you can, before mass panic causes widespread logistical problems and nervous authorities begin to close borders.

This theory is not a wild conjencture. Scientists have grudgingly agreed on its full validity, except for the time scale - they say it will take "longer". How much longer they don't specify.

Hope this helps to clear up some of the confusion in this thread.

www.ncdc.noaa.gov...
The above is a listing of severe events in 1998. As you can see, they were all over the globe and within a two to three month window.

www.ncdc.noaa.gov...
This one is a chart on highest and lowest weather condition records. Temperatures and precipitation extremes are nothing new.

nndc.noaa.gov...://ols.nndc.noaa.gov/plolstore/plsql/olstore.prodspecific?prodnum=C00580-PUB-A0001
www.ncdc.noaa.gov...
This one dates back to 1983 and shows extreme and the most costly weather events inflicted upon the US, with such examples as the flooding, storms and freeze that battered Florida in ‘82/83. The second link is a chart that gives a visual sense of the number of events each year.

And I am sure this event caused more than a stir: temperatures below zero as far south as the panhandle of Florida where Tallahassee recorded a low of -2 degrees F, on February 13th, 1899. This month actually featured two different cold waves, both of which set some all-time state records which exist to this day. (The first cold wave around the 10th of the month, set the all time Ohio state record low temperature of -39 at Milligan.) A quote from the Monthly Weather Review of February 1899 remarks on the Great Cold Wave, " These cold waves established many new landmarks for future reference - whether we consider the instrumental readings or the physical phenomena resulting from the cold. The most striking of the latter perhaps was the flow of ice down the Mississippi River on the 17th, past New Orleans and into the Gulf of Mexico, an event never before witnessed within the memory of man. Ice an inch thick formed at the mouth of the Mississippi in East and Garden Island bays, and the temperature fell to 10 degrees F. on the 13th. The loss of human life, from January 29th to February 13th, by freezing and avalanches (in Colorado) as near as can be ascertained was 105 persons". www.ncdc.noaa.gov...

www.accuweather.com... and this is a magazine’s top 100 pick for the 20th century, allowing for only 1 event per year.

For the Europeans, you have had events like the Jan-Feb. 1953 storm surge, so I think it is safe to say that extreme weather is nothing new.

I am going to sound like a broken record player now. It's not the events themselves, it's the frequency and commonality of these events. As I said in the recent time-frame of a few years there has been a deluge of uncommon climate and earth activity and it appears to be on an upward spiral. Anyway, i'll just leave at that the other thing I keep repeating: wait and watch on 2005.

Start of the year has broken temperature records in many places in southern Finland.

And it's raining water again even in here farther away from the coast.
If this weather is somehow normal then I'm King of the Finland!

And next storm is coming... lowering of sealevel back to normal has stopped and it should start rising again... althought to much lower level than in last weekend.


Here's good page showing clouds above Europe:
www.fmi.fi...

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
www.ncdc.noaa.gov...
This one is a chart on highest and lowest weather condition records. Temperatures and precipitation extremes are nothing new.

It's generally known that you should compare weather to only local records... not to those made in half way around the world.

Talking about temperature-swings...
Dec 26th 2004 I was in Norway. I could see the meter dropping like a stone. It dropped from minus nine celsius to minus twenty celsius in about 2 hours. It was a little weird, it just kept falling. Not a record temp in any way (I`ve experienced minus forty-two celsius on the very same spot a long time ago), but this just happened so quickly. It was about 12 hours after the tsunami.

In this recent storm, Sweden shut down four of its eleven nuclear reactors. There are still more than 100.000 without electricity, four days after the storm.

[edit on 2005/1/12 by Hellmutt]

Today we had an unprecedented event in Ottawa for mid-January: we had a thunderstorm. I've lived in this city for 8 years, and I've never seen a thunderstorm in winter before!

This entire winter for us (much as everyone else on the planet), has been very very erratic. There is much less snow on the ground than usual, because of the periodic and sudden hot spells that raise the temperature above 0 C and melt the snow. For those who are not familiar - Ottawa, Canada is a rather cold city in the winter months, and we're used to seeing temperatures closer to -20 C at this time of the year! Never before has the temperature risen above 0 C so often.

Just to provide another example to the situation...

Looks like another storm is coming. And it looks like it might be bigger then "Inga"...
www.fmi.fi...