Immortality of Consciousness – Reincarnation

originally posted by: Klassified
Why do those who "reincarnate" only seem to take on attributes of their most recent "incarnation", rather than those from 5 or 10 incarnations ago?

Also, reincarnation suggests a collective unconsciousness(Jung) or consciousness. If that is the case, anyone could have memories of any life ever lived.

I think reincarnation is a fascinating topic, but I'm yet to be convinced, even though I've had some experiences that could be construed as memories of a past life. But are they mine, or someone elses memories? Or neither.

Interestingly, part of the rebuttals for reincarnation (and specifically these stories) is a somewhat similar concept, which argues that telepathy or ESP actually accounts for reincarnation experiences. Definitely a topic worth exploring.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Eh, it's more like you get "poured back into the bucket" when you die.

In the examples above, I don't believe people are witnessing their past memories.

Their experiencing THE past memories, of everyone.

When you die and get dumped back into the bucket and mixed around, your memories are also sloshed around with the rest. When a pint of "you" gets poured, sometimes fragments of those memories get pulled along.

Like I said, those aren't YOUR past memories -- those are THE past memories.

That's a very interesting perspective that is clearly shared by others, even in some of the preceding posts.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

When you die and get dumped back into the bucket and mixed around, your memories are also sloshed around with the rest. When a pint of "you" gets poured, sometimes fragments of those memories get pulled along.

Generally yes, I think this is a fair summing up of the 'maybe'. For my thoughts though, it seems it may be a little more, or a little more personalized. As you describe it all sounds to impersonal, so general, which I do not necessarily disagree with, just that the whole process could also be more specific, know what I mean? More 'free will' oriented rather than just randomness.

Though part of a whole
I would say the soul is individual and remains so through many incarnations

That the purpose of the soul is to evolve through learning
Re-incarnation is mostly for the soul to learn what it failed to in it's previous life
As such we are placed amongst those we have "Karmic" lessons to learn by playing out situations to that end.

Once a soul begins to evolve it finds it's own place amongst other evolved souls in the Eternal Realms of Soul
Those who re-incarnate dwell in transitory realms between life's ... these realms one would describe as Paradise
Yet are nothing compared to the true realms of soul which are Eternal

I enjoyed reading your OP. Very informative. You may be interested in an article published in Live Science 2 days ago.

Mystical Experiences Open a 'Door of Perception' in the Brain

Previous research suggested two broad camps of theories to explain the brain origins of mystical experiences, called "push" and "pull" theories, respectively.

"Push theories argue that activation of a single 'God spot' causes mystical beliefs, suggesting that injuries to these spots would reduce mysticism," study co-author Joseph Bulbulia, a religious studies researcher at Victoria University of Wellington in New Zealand, said in a statement. "In contrast, pull theories argue that the suppression of our inhibitory functions opens up the brain to mystical experiences. It is a hotly disputed topic, and we set out to clarify the debate."

Now, Grafman and his colleagues have evidence to suggest that pull theories may help to explain mystical experiences.

The researchers found that damage to the frontal and temporal lobes was linked with greater mystical experiences. Previous research found that the frontal lobes, located near the forehead, are linked to movement, problem solving, memory, language and judgment, among other functions. The temporal lobes, located near the bottom of the brain, are linked to the senses, language and memory.

Further investigation revealed that damage to a specific area of the brain known as the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex was linked to markedly increased mysticism. Previous research found that this brain region, located in the frontal lobes, is key to imposing inhibitions.

Basically they are suggesting that disinhibition, due to damage to certain areas of the brain , causes increased instances of mysticism. It seems letting go of inhibitions is the key.

I do have a vivid memory prior to birth and was reminded of it from the age of 8-9 years. I was in space. I could see all the stars, galaxies and nebulas. I was also part of it. I remember the feeling of immense love (amplified 1000s of times). No negativity. No negative human emotions or stress. I also knew I was coming here and that I was travelling.

I have absolutely no fear of dying.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

Many responses in this thread appear to lean towards the idea of shared memories - being thrown back into the bucket and re-emerging as a different scoop of the soup.

I do not think that is the case. In my view, a pre-requisite for a soul's development is that the sould should retain a certain autonomy and have its own core identity; one that would have grown and developped over many incarnations.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Well, I can understand where you are getting the "impersonal" thing but it's actually the opposite. Everything is one.

We all come from the same place, and go back to that place. In fact, we are a piece OF that place right now. We're just shards of infinity sticking out into the 3-D world, observing our self from different perspectives (what we think of as individuality).

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Well, I can understand where you are getting the "impersonal" thing but it's actually the opposite. Everything is one.

We all come from the same place, and go back to that place. In fact, we are a piece OF that place right now. We're just shards of infinity sticking out into the 3-D world, observing our self from different perspectives (what we think of as individuality).

I think there is a middle man between the oneness and the shard that extends into the 3D world.

That middle man is the Self or the Soul. The self is often referred to as the Higher Self. It has direct conection with the Oneness. However, to all intents and purposes, it behaves as a separate entity ; gathering experience and consolidating what it has learned. Hence each divine spark has a different shade (let's say "identity"). In that way , something unique and original can be pooled back when the cycle is over - by which time the spark would have realised that it is the One and also Everyone. Yet , a distinct quality is brought back to the source; something not possible if the soul was constantly laundered with other souls in between incarnations. At least that is my present opinon.

originally posted by: artistpoet
Though part of a whole
I would say the soul is individual and remains so through many incarnations

That the purpose of the soul is to evolve through learning
Re-incarnation is mostly for the soul to learn what it failed to in it's previous life
As such we are placed amongst those we have "Karmic" lessons to learn by playing out situations to that end.

Once a soul begins to evolve it finds it's own place amongst other evolved souls in the Eternal Realms of Soul
Those who re-incarnate dwell in transitory realms between life's ... these realms one would describe as Paradise
Yet are nothing compared to the true realms of soul which are Eternal

Thanks for the insight. If it isn't too imposing, would you mind sharing from what you developed this belief?

a reply to: Morrad


Wow, thank you for the beautiful addition to the conversation. I would love to hear more about your memory. You should consider memorializing it in a post!

originally posted by: crowdedskies
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

Many responses in this thread appear to lean towards the idea of shared memories - being thrown back into the bucket and re-emerging as a different scoop of the soup.

I do not think that is the case. In my view, a pre-requisite for a soul's development is that the sould should retain a certain autonomy and have its own core identity; one that would have grown and developped over many incarnations.

I would tend to agree that your viewpoint appears more in line with traditional thinking on the subject. I need to expand my knowledge into more of these sects of thinking before I can put forth my genuine personal beliefs on the specifics.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

Thanks for the insight. If it isn't too imposing, would you mind sharing from what you developed this belief?

As you say ... it is a belief ... or part of a belief regarding the soul I was taught when young
I question my beliefs constantly ... sometimes I know nothing to be true and start over like a blank page
Yet these doubts when faced build a stronger belief ... I believe in many things I once doubted
We each find our own proof in life ... each has their own way

a reply to: artistpoet

I question my beliefs constantly ... sometimes I know nothing to be true and start over like a blank page
***
We each find our own proof in life ... each has their own way

Ain't that the truth....

a reply to: crowdedskies

If you look across cultures and time, the people who have delved the deepest into spirituality, meditation, shamanism, esoteric traditions, ect all agree on one point:

Oneness

Humans have a very, very difficult time grasping that they are NOT a singular individual with a unique identity. What we think of as our "identity" is just a mask and surface illusion that keeps us asleep to the real fact that we are all one. That illusion is needed so we can experience one another without knowing we ARE the same. We are mirrors for one another.

Our ego is a construct that is created very early, programmed and ready to by the time we're about 4-5. It disconnects us and gives us amnesia about who/what/where we came from. There is a reason why very small children often times have memories of things they shouldn't, and later in life don't display the same ability to recall them.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I believe all are within one
It is true what we think of as our personality is illusory

In soul you are as I yet you are not I
The Creation is about diversity ... we are not our Creator

You were are each given a spark of the mighty flame
What we do with that spark determines our place amongst many other sparks/souls

These things we will all find out to be true or not ... but I also believe we should aim lower and touch the Earth first

This type of conversation is not common in day to day life
Our life's are full of seemingly smaller things than grand visions of the soul triumphant ...
It is the smaller things which matter most ... the people who cross our path ... how we choose to be

Would reincarnation be a evoltionary, and hereditary thing, or something Astral? Or if one passes on there genes or have someone related to them pass them on, could there be a possibility of being reincarnated to something similar of the idea of a past life.

Would one die and just move onto the next one, the next minute of that place or time. Or would it be aeons later. Also is reincarnation the inspiration of going to heaven an hell? Or would God be that crazy, calculated, or that spiteful looking at karma scores, of one's past, an future, deciding if they go up or down?

Are sins inspired by karma as well, or was that fate? Who knows

Just random thoughts.

originally posted by: Specimen
Would reincarnation be a evoltionary, and hereditary thing, or something Astral? Or if one passes on there genes or have someone related to them pass them on, could there be a possibility of big reincarnated to something similar of the idea of a past life.

Would one die and just move onto the next one, the next minute of that place or time. Or would it be aeons later. Also is reincarnation the inspiration of going to heaven an hell? Or would God be that crazy and calculated looking at karma scores, of one's past, an future, deciding if they goe up or down?

Just random thoughts.

Interesting questions.

As to your first set of questions, the evidence would suggest there is no familiar connection between vessels.

As to your second set of questions, it is not clear whether there is an established temporal element to reincarnation. It is not even clear whether everyone reincarnates or just some people (which further complicates the inquiry). As for the connection to morality (for lack of a better word), traditional religious associations with reincarnation have correlated it to actions and resultant consequences. In a sense, subscribing to that sect of reincarnation would involve believing that reincarnation is a cross-species occurrence. It would also seem to require believing in a hierarchy of species and among humans.

a reply to: Op3nM1nd3d

Humans ought to understand that Science has limited abilities to prove many - even ordninary - topics.

Prove the existence of love - If you ever loved anything - prove it.
Prove the existence of happiness - Or better yet - measure it scientifically equal
Prove the existence of dreaming - Yet we know this does not need any proof but in the world of science dreams are just a big fat lie.

And I could go on. Forever. Prove it.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

Maybe me or u had an ancestor that would like us today. Like that night at the museum, where Ben stiller meet his great great...Son!?

Btw, how would actions or verbs like sins, good or bad karma, or fates of vessels the souls are occupying have any consequence since it so separated

originally posted by: Specimen
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

Maybe me or u had an ancestor that would like us today. Like that night at the museum, where Ben stiller meet his great great...Son!?

Btw, how would actions or verbs like sins, good or bad karma, or fates of vessels the souls are occupying have any consequence since it so separated

That is pretty fun to think about (and a bit mind bending).

Your questions are good as they question the logic of the premises being postulated. What is uncertain is the role of logic in this analysis. I have always had a hard time coming to an understanding of this type of phenomical thinking because I grounded my mind in logic and the physical limits of this world. Who is to say what the laws are of anything beyond current existence? Things (afterlife existence or reincarnation) could just be as they are without reason because that is how they are and how the background of "existence" is defined once we transcend the laws of this "world."

With that said, perhaps your soul progresses in some manner based on the criteria you set forth, or perhaps, your soul (or better, your consciousness) moves forward for eternity through reincarnation unencumbered and unaffected by your actions. Obviously, the former school of thought would require some grand arbiter or bookkeeper of good and bad. Not sure how else that would be tabulated on your "soul scoresheet" or otherwise assessed or implemented at the time of your reincarnation. The logistical conundrum this creates suggests the more unencumbered approach is more likely. Although, believing that your actions have no real consequences would befuddle the opiat of the masses that is modern religious doctrine.

An important note is that one who believes in reincarnation must believe in the existence of life beyond earth. Inevitably, our sun, as it dies, will consume earth and it will no longer exist. What happens then if earth is the only source for reincarnated vessels?