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Evil in the Universe

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posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 09:07 PM
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My son was talking with me about some of his teacher's view last night. About how he believed that evil existed for us to appreciate the good. And that good cannot exist without evil, and that evil will always exist.

In fact when reading science fiction fantasy the only future we get is of militaristic and warring factions, galaxy-wide, much as it is on earth.



True, there have been a few visionaries that looked forward to see a more or less peaceful existence, but those are rare. And even those, such as Gene Rodenberry's Star Trek are littered with militarization, and war.



Looking at the long history of humankind and warfare, it is understandable how a lot of people imagine that this is the future of humankind, yes of the universe itself. A constant struggle between forces. Good and evil. Perhaps evil and evil. A constant barrage of injustice and war.


Now, the universe itself is about 13.8 billion years old, or so we are told.

Civilization has been around for about 6,000 years.

To help put into context the amount of time that is on the grand scale of things, Carl Sagan did a real nice job of it in Cosmos:



Imagine that. Everything humans have ever done takes up put a mere spec on the lowest corner of the cosmic calendar. Really just a smudge. Pretty nonexistent.

Now here a reality that I've pondered about, and a wonderful one at that. The shortness of evil on the time-scale of things.

Scripture shows us that God is a perfect God and his creation all unfolded at his pace, in his wisdom, and in love:

(Ecclesiastes 3:11) . . .He has made everything beautiful in its time.. . .

The predominant quality, of which there are many, that God possesses is that of love. In fact it is such an integral part of his nature, Scripture tells us, not that he has love, or possesses love, but that he IS love:

(1 John 4:8) 8 Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.

And further reveals that all of his works are righteous and perfect:

(Deuteronomy 32:4) . . .The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he.

Imagine that. Now go back in time, in your mind, to before mankind was created. Imagine all of the untold billions of years peace and love ruled the universe. Everyone in harmony.

There is no indication in Scripture that God has created physical life anywhere besides the earth, so it is reasonable to conclude, that, at the moment, in all of the vast universe, the planet earth is the only place physical life exists.

It is not arrogant or foolish to surmise such a thing.

Now because of the written record of truth contained in Holy Scripture it is revealed to us that God is not a human of flesh and blood. But he is a life-giving Spirit. And that, before he created man, he created other spirits like himself. The first and foremost among all, being his only-begotten son, now known as Jesus Christ.

Now there was a certain angelic spirit creation of Jehovah, beyond beauty in comparison, and wisdom. And it entered into this angel's heart to usurp Jehovah's universal sovereignty, and something happened that had never happened before in God's perfect universe where peace and love reigned for those untold billions of years.

That angelic son of God chose to rebel and sin, and he lied to the first human couple, Adam and Eve. Adam was not deceived, but the woman thoroughly was, and they both sinned and disobeyed God. thus leading mankind away from his good rule and into open rebellion with that angel who took on the name Satan the Devil. Satan meaning Resister, and Devil meaning Slanderer. It was said of him in prophetic terms:

(Ezekiel 28:12-15, 17) . . .‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “You were the model of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eʹden, the garden of God. You were adorned with every precious stone —Ruby, topaz, and jasper; chrysʹo·lite, onyx, and jade; sapphire, turquoise, and emerald; And their settings and mountings were made of gold. They were prepared on the day you were created. 14 I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub. You were on the holy mountain of God, and you walked about among fiery stones. 15 You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you...Your heart became haughty because of your beauty. You corrupted your wisdom because of your own glorious splendor. I will throw you down to the earth. I will make you a spectacle before kings.

The stage was set and the earth became the focus. Will Satan the Devil and mankind be successful in their rebellion?

Six thousand years of human misery has lead us to see that it was a failure. The issues that Satan raised when challenging Jehovah have been settled. Namely, (1) that God is a liar, (2) that human rule, or even Satan's rule over humans is better than God's rule, and (3) that there is no human that would remain faithful to God under trial.

During that rebellion Satan did not only lead the majority of all mankind away from God, inventing religion to enslave him, to blind him, but he also drag a 1/3 of the heaven with him. Yes, many angels fell along with Satan, and they became demons, wicked spirits siding with Satan in the universal issue now at hand.

The warfare is a spiritual one. It is between the forces of good and evil. And it is coming to its head.

Since the beginning, after Adam and Eve fell from perfection, lost their right to life and perfect humans, God made a way to unify all things once again unto himself. Scripture states:

(Ephesians 1:9, 10) . . .It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth. . . .

This administration has allowed for the birth of the heavenly nation of Israel. Jesus Christ rules as king of that heavenly kingdom government. He stands for the cause of good and righteousness. By means of him God will break to pieces the works of the Devil, and redeem obedient mankind back to perfect.


Many today, even though who believe in Jesus, imagine him as a baby in a manger. Or a weak and feeble person with long hair hanging on a cross.

But Jesus lived long before he came to the earth. And he lives again, as a powerful and invisible spirit in heaven, at Gods right hand. He has been given the name above all names, and his rulership is one that will never be brought to ruin.

By means of his government the ultimate battle will soon take place where all wicked man-kind will be done away with and Satan the Devil and his angels bound in the abyss for the thousand-year rule of Christ over humans.

And then Jesus will bring all things together again, and as the last enemy, he will bring death to nothing:

(1 Corinthians 15:25-27) . . .For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” . . .

cont...




posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 09:07 PM
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At the end of the thousand year, "last day" also known as the "day of judgement" or "judgement day" Satan will be released from his abyss for a short-while to gather together those who chose to rebel against God's rule.

Then all those rebelling will be removed, and at long last even Satan the Devil and his angels will be utterly destroyed:

(Revelation 20:2, 3, 10) . . .He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while...And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur


After which the universe will be brought back to perfection, and God will be all things to all people. And Jesus rulership, which will have been proven to be far superior to human rule, as it will rid the earth of warfare, crime, injustice, sickness, old age, disease, and death, and he will be able to resurrect all the dead ones back to life, then Jesus himself will subject himself to his Father Jehovah:

(1 Corinthians 15:28) . . .But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

You see, in the puny unimaginative human mind, badness always has been, and always will be. But the future of humankind and the universe is far far more grand than that.

The beauty that awaits us is beyond imagining. It will be such a blissful and wonderful future that all of the pains and miseries of this short existence of misery and pain will not even be brought back to the mind:

(Isaiah 65:17) . . .And the former things will not be called to mind, Nor will they come up into the heart.


This time in which we live is one that has never happened before, and never again will be repeated in this history of the universe.

In the future, if someone, whether it be an angelic son of God, or a mortal creature decides to rebel, there will have already been a precedent set. There will be no need to allow the challenge again. This time-period and the failure of human rule, and that of Satan himself will remain as a testament of that failure for all eternity to come.
edit on 11-2-2016 by JackReyes because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 09:20 PM
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a reply to: JackReyes

I must admit, I thought this was very well written overall. I enjoyed reading it. I am spiritual, yet do not subscribe to organized religious beliefs. Agnostic is the technical term, I believe.

The one thing, and you denounced it in your post, is that I cannot believe we are the only intelligent life in the universe. If I am correct, it modifies your theory on the time period for which evil may have existed in the universe. Although, who is to say the other intelligent life has the same traits as us humans. Maybe they are peaceful and coexist in a utopian paradise.



posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 09:24 PM
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a reply to: JackReyes

About 2 weeks ago, I found out what the three lights that form the triangle in the sky really is and I must say in all honesty, the bible and god have nothing to do, with what is going on today….the winner has already been decided.

This world is way pass the point of know return, no god, no love and no bible is going to stop it or change it.



posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 09:30 PM
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originally posted by: ExNihiloRed
a reply to: JackReyes

I must admit, I thought this was very well written overall. I enjoyed reading it. I am spiritual, yet do not subscribe to organized religious beliefs. Agnostic is the technical term, I believe.

The one thing, and you denounced it in your post, is that I cannot believe we are the only intelligent life in the universe. If I am correct, it modifies your theory on the time period for which evil may have existed in the universe. Although, who is to say the other intelligent life has the same traits as us humans. Maybe they are peaceful and coexist in a utopian paradise.


Agreed. The only reason I've come to the conclusion that physical life has originated on earth itself, and not anywhere else is because of the very fact that God has allowed the challenge to his universal sovereignty.

To me it seems there would be no need to do so if there were perfect sentient life-forms living elsewhere. Although, that does not mean there will not be a time, maybe millions or billions of years into the future when the entire universe is populated with life.

Perhaps earth will be the starting point?

What is sure is that the aberration of sin and evil in God's universe has been temporary, and not a very long time at that. And it will never be required to be allowed again.

And imagine, living all of those billions of years into the future to see things that we cannot even imagine right now.

(Ecclesiastes 3:11) . . .He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has even put eternity in their heart; yet mankind will never find out the work that the true God has made from start to finish.

(Revelation 21:3, 4) . . .And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”



posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 09:39 PM
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a reply to: JackReyes



Perhaps earth will be the starting point?


Fascinating to consider. Somewhere in the universe had to be the first place of life, if not us. Maybe other civilizations are developing simultaneously. The key to understanding if good and evil is unique to humanity is to look beyond our species on earth.

Is it just humans who are good and evil? Are other animals evil (absent corruption from evil humans)? Can nature be evil or is that merely perception? Plants? Bugs? Evaluating that dynamic is a starting point.



posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 09:47 PM
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originally posted by: JackReyes
There is no indication in Scripture that God has created physical life anywhere besides the earth, so it is reasonable to conclude, that, at the moment, in all of the vast universe, the planet earth is the only place physical life exists.

It is not arrogant or foolish to surmise such a thing.


Stated in this manner, no it is not arrogant, but it may be a ignorant. We have evidence on how life started on Earth, and we have evidence of the same conditions necessary for life to have started on Earth to exist in other celestial bodies. We also have evidence here on Earth that many organisms have mechanisms, diets and live in environments that aren't of 'conventional' life, thus giving more evidence to suggest that life could intentionally live in more extreme environments elsewhere too.

I would say that stating "planet earth is the only place physical life exists" isn't really a claim based on our current understanding of life.

As for the rest of your first post. I find it odd how you can believe so much of the bible as literal fact, yet also accept that the universe is as scientists claim it to be at about 14 billion years old. To really accept and understand that concept would mean that the literal belief in the bible cannot possibly be factual. So you're kind of stuck at a paradox in reasoning.



originally posted by: JackReyes
You see, in the puny unimaginative human mind, badness always has been, and always will be. But the future of humankind and the universe is far far more grand than that.


Well 'badness' and 'evil' are subjective terms. What defines them varies from individual to individual. So this only leads us to conclude that 'Badness' and "evil" are constructs of the human mind and nothing more, not existing outside of it.



posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 09:59 PM
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originally posted by: ExNihiloRed
a reply to: JackReyes

I must admit, I thought this was very well written overall. I enjoyed reading it. I am spiritual, yet do not subscribe to organized religious beliefs. Agnostic is the technical term, I believe.


Just as a side note, you can be an atheist and still be spiritual


Agnosticism is a position that states 'it is impossible to know anything about God'


originally posted by: ExNihiloRed
a reply to: JackReyes
The one thing, and you denounced it in your post, is that I cannot believe we are the only intelligent life in the universe. If I am correct, it modifies your theory on the time period for which evil may have existed in the universe. Although, who is to say the other intelligent life has the same traits as us humans. Maybe they are peaceful and coexist in a utopian paradise.


True, we don't know for certain if intelligent alien life would be aggressive or peaceful. I believe we may find some evidence, however, if we were to link (or be absent of a link) between things like intelligence, consciousness, and aggression.

If, for some reason, aggression is often linked with intelligence, at least here on Earth, that could mean that life in general could have a similar relationship.



posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 10:15 PM
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originally posted by: Ghost147

Just as a side note, you can be an atheist and still be spiritual


Agnosticism is a position that states 'it is impossible to know anything about God



Ha! Very true. Although I am far from, settled in my beliefs, I lean more towards believing that a higher power exists. The details, however, remain very much open to debate.



True, we don't know for certain if intelligent alien life would be aggressive or peaceful. I believe we may find some evidence, however, if we were to link (or be absent of a link) between things like intelligence, consciousness, and aggression.

If, for some reason, aggression is often linked with intelligence, at least here on Earth, that could mean that life in general could have a similar relationship.


Absolutely. This expands even better on my point. If we can make meaningful associations (or, better, correlations) between unique human traits and good/evil, perhaps it will enlighten our understanding of the terms in a more spiritual or religious sense.

It is hard to say what are unique human traits. You posited intelligence. Dolphins are purportedly quite intelligent. Any evil dolphins out there? They all seem pretty damn nice and helpful, even to strangers.
edit on 11-2-2016 by ExNihiloRed because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 10:33 PM
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originally posted by: ExNihiloRed
It is hard to say what are unique human traits. You posited intelligence. Dolphins are purportedly quite intelligent. Any evil dolphins out there? They all seem pretty damn nice and helpful, even to strangers.


Actually yes. Dolphins have been known to gang rape other dolphins, many have been witnessed 'torturing' fish for entertainment, and if you consider drug use as something that's 'evil' then 'teenage' dolphins have been spotted chewing on toxic fish to get high.



posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 11:09 PM
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originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed
It is hard to say what are unique human traits. You posited intelligence. Dolphins are purportedly quite intelligent. Any evil dolphins out there? They all seem pretty damn nice and helpful, even to strangers.


Actually yes. Dolphins have been known to gang rape other dolphins, many have been witnessed 'torturing' fish for entertainment, and if you consider drug use as something that's 'evil' then 'teenage' dolphins have been spotted chewing on toxic fish to get high.


Thank you for giving me the next thing I am going to research and read about.



posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 11:35 PM
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Evil is by definition subjective.

Some people may consider me "evil" because I hunt, fish, eat steaks, consort with criminals, have a career in protecting corporate secrets, am an atheist with a strong academic interest in the occult, sell #4 heroin to get people hooked then jack up the prices, you know, the usual.

I mean, what if you're an illegal arms dealer who uses the profits to save the rainforests? Evil - because your actions lead to the deaths of many people, or good - because your actions lead to the deaths of many people in an overpopulated world and directly benefits the natural environment?

I may be a godless heathen, but some people I know would consider rampant Christianity to be "evil" when it leads to indoctrinating school children into creationism or when super Christian families cut off their family members who leave the church.

Those Muslim terrorists? As far as they're concerned, they're doing God's work and yes, they worship the same God as Christians and Jews.

The Soviets thought capitalists were evil, and vice versa. What's good and what's evil is usually just a matter of where you're standing.

As far as I'm concerned there are very few things which are objectively evil, such as torturing animals or children. Rape is another one. Murder, well, it depends on whether you're going around murdering innocent people, or if the guy you're knocking off was, say, a child rapist. Plenty of people will disagree and say that murder can never be justified but that's a whole other area of discussion.

Without evil, we wouldn't be human.



posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 11:44 PM
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Evil is not the absence of good. Evil is a judgement made by the observer. We judge something as evil. For example meteorites in flight are not in themselves evil they are just mass following the laws of physics. But a meteorite falling on Obama and killing him would be good, one falling on the pope and killing him would be bad. Water is not good or evil, but the Indian ocean tsunami was evil. Even these statements will be argued by observers. It is the observer that makes the judgement of whether an act is evil or good.

God is the maker of the universe and He has judged what is good and evil. In Genesis chapter 2 it ells us that humans were to be priest on the earth, mediators between God's realm and this one. As go-betweens they were to talk to God and seek His judgement of what is good and evil. The serpent told the first two humans that they could be "like God, knowing good and evil".

The world we live in is random from the movement of electrons up. Some actions and thoughts are good, some are evil.



posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 11:45 PM
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a reply to: Volchitsa

The religious response would be that it is not subjective. You either are good or evil. It is not subjective, because it is not man's job to judge man. God judges who is good and who is evil. What we think is good or evil is irrelevant.

Also, think Jesus' golden rule as shedding some light on the issue.

That's one religious perspective, IMHO, at least.

For me, I've always thought deep, deep down you know whether you yourself are truly a good or truly an evil person. As for other people, it really is not my job to judge them in that regard, whether I like what they do or not.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: Cinrad

I would say (I do get your post btw)

It is still classified as good and evil

I think we can all agree on eg .. Good deeds being good, Evil doings being bad and nature being what it is (beautiful and the terrible)

I just smile when people judge things being good/bad without having any expert knowledge or criteria

The one thing I can't understand is how can humans still think they have the right judgment to take someone's life
(Eg death penalty is just gross)



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 09:58 AM
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a reply to: JackReyes

I loved reading that

The way you write is (I don't have the word for it)

I read it 4x and I can read it over and over for some reason .

Thank you



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: JackReyes

If we grant everything in the OP as true, what is the point of all this cosmic soap opera?

What do these gods wish to achieve?

If everything was peachy in the past, why start a process that would lead to evil in the first place?

And it's narcissistic to think we're the only life in the universe.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 10:37 AM
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a reply to: Prezbo369



peachy in the past, why start a process that would lead to evil in the first place?


Otherwise you could not tell one thing from another

(Not evil just opposite of spectrum)

Main antonyms .. Existence (as in live being comprehending it's existence) and death or things without consciousness (temporary being incapable of comprehension and bodily state needed for it)

Something like from dust we come to dust we will turn



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 12:08 PM
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a reply to: ImmortalLegend527

What 3 lights? What triangle in the sky? Will you please share with us what you have learned of their composition?



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: ImmortalLegend527
a reply to: JackReyes

About 2 weeks ago, I found out what the three lights that form the triangle in the sky really is and I must say in all honesty, the bible and god have nothing to do, with what is going on today….the winner has already been decided.

This world is way pass the point of know return, no god, no love and no bible is going to stop it or change it.


May I ask for elaboration on these "three lights that form the triangle in the sky" and what it means? I am interested, but am confused by your statement.



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