Bernie & Hillary Debate Tonight; Let's Do This!

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness

but when Bush Jr. decided to go finish up his daddies business in Iraq from the 90s? Is when we lost most all international support and had to shoulder this burden nearly wholly by ourselves with troops including national guard units... crippling the economy and actually accomplished what the 9/11 attack set out to do but failed and at a cost of way more lives than the initial attack.

Invading Iraq? The biggest political blunder I've ever witnessed in this country.

I don't believe for a second W was running that presidency. And I agree with you.

But, don't want to thread drift.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: JacKatMtn
a reply to: Annee

Too often... international politics, with western influence, means propping up dictators and oppressing people...

That is ( to me) the largest shame that the folks in the US have to bear... Too many lives lost, too many limbs lost in the name of defending the country... when in fact, they were lost not the nation, but corporate interests....

We have lost too many GREAT AMERICANS to the whims of those who want to make a profit...

Oh, I agree. I am a legit Globalist - - not a conspiracy one.

I remember cultural experts telling W Bush that you can't fight Iraq from the top down - - you will only win from the bottom up. You have to get to know the people within their own culture.

The mistrust from that region towards the US & UK goes WAY more deeper in the calendar than GW's reign... it's an ugly deal...

IMO, You cannot represent yourself as a beacon of freedom, and do the things the US govt did.....

Promoters of democracy, yet prop up the likes of Noriega, Hussein, Saudi Royal family, Marcos et al......

You might expect that the world would get pissed off...

The folks who hate the US don't hate me or you, they hate our GOVT......

It's nice to see that folks are trying to break the stranglehold, buck the system... on BOTH sides of the aisle ......

IMO... no matter what side you lean towards, support the candidate that isn't going to keep status quo... do the same with your REP and SEN votes as well....

The change needed isn't only the seat in the oval office.... it's the shysters in the Capitol that need to be sent home...

YMMV

a reply to: Annee

I'm the same age as Hillary. I know posters throw out the "she's using the woman thing" - - - but, I know for real what it was like.

What does your gender,age,race, height,weight,etc have to do with a politician?

I came here from Cuba and I know what its realy like to be a minority and Hispanic male here in the US. However, I can spot B# from a mile and I'm not voting for Rubio or Cruz.

She is a politician with a history of scandals including her husband and she is using her women card as a political advantage. Just like Rubio and Cruz when they talk about the American dream.

For the life in me I don't understand how anybody can't see she is full $H1t and it has nothing todo with her gender.

You honestly don't believe that she is lying when she says that just because she takes millions from super pacs and special interest groups it doesn't mean that it effects her decision?

Not to mention how she claims to take on those same industries that are donating money to her, yet those same industries are still a cluster F##%T for the public? So if she really took them on then she failed miserably.

a reply to: Annee

I see it as a political blunder to come off like you've already ran the country as potus for the last 8 years... the majority isnt happy with the last 8 years gender didnt even cross my mind, a friend once was making a joke about Hanson the band years ago and asked me if I thought they were pretty little girls? I said besides been preteen if you're not going to have intercourse with someone what does the gender matter? While I am very aware of the oppression and stereotypes that have been lauded over women for a very long time?

I sort of short circuit having to make gender, racial, or sexual orientation based commentary... as they are moot imho. But the issues that these groups face however is real and a direct result of making distinctions that really only serve to divide where politics is concerned it seems from wages to opportunities to voting etc... so counter to the way I process information. But yes very confident... maybe to the point of too cocky, as pride does come before a fall and I can hear pride in Mrs. Clintons voice especially when reminiscing various people like she was THE one that got it done so it comes off also egocentric or slightly narcissistic instead of true confidence which has humility attached to it instead.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Annee

I'm the same age as Hillary. I know posters throw out the "she's using the woman thing" - - - but, I know for real what it was like.

I came here from Cuba and I know what its realy like to be a minority and Hispanic male here in the US.

How does you being a male - - let you understand what it was like being a woman (in a man's world) prior to the push for women's equality?

And, I keep trying to not thread drift.

Sanders: Kissinger 'not my kind of guy'

About time the US of A break off from Kissingers policies.

“Because I happen to believe that Henry Kissinger was one of the most destructive secretaries of state in the modern history of this country," the senator said. "I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend. I will not take advice from Kissinger."

source

originally posted by: interupt42


Not sure why either one wants to associate themselve with Obama but Haha that was classic "One of us ran against Obama"

One question, how does Hillary continue to say she'll basically be Obama II and be and do everything he is , and then say she is a candidate for change??

a reply to: Annee

How does you being a male - - let you understand what it was like being a woman (in a man's world) prior to the push for women's equality?

What does that matter with anything in politics?

So you are suggesting to consider candidates or make your considerations of candidates based on their age,color,race,height,gender, or weight instead of the issues?

Its sexist to assume just because she is a women she will handle women issues better , just like it would be to assume that a male would make a better cop then a female.

originally posted by: neo96
Been listening to CLinton and Sanders tonite ?

They are BIGGER government than you have ever seen.

Especially with healthcare, and infrastructure, and education.

So you think the government shouldn't be involved with infrastructure or education?

originally posted by: neo96
So tell me Sander is lying ?

Because in 2016 the modern generation is the highest paid ever.

Has more benefits.

Has bigger homes.

Has more 'THINGS' than ANY previous generation of this nation?

Sanders and CLinton just love to snip about what people supposed 'don't' have, and IGNORE what they do have.

By real dollars maybe they're the highest paid which is obviously going to be the case due to inflation, but the median income in the US right now has less purchasing power than minimum wage had in 1955 or 1967.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: vjr1113

The purpose of the US government is NOT providing corporate products to the masses.

That is not nor has it ever been it's function.

Didn't you just agree with me, and even say it's a good thing in another thread that US defense spending has created millions of jobs and trillions in wealth in fields like medicine and technology?

I'm pretty sure you did
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Those are ultimately corporate products fueled by government spending.

originally posted by: NickK3

originally posted by: interupt42


Not sure why either one wants to associate themselve with Obama but Haha that was classic "One of us ran against Obama"

One question, how does Hillary continue to say she'll basically be Obama II and be and do everything he is , and then say she is a candidate for change??

LOL, Because in political land the same is different and progress is deterioration and the truth is a lie.

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
Sanders: Kissinger 'not my kind of guy'

About time the US of A break off from Kissingers policies.

“Because I happen to believe that Henry Kissinger was one of the most destructive secretaries of state in the modern history of this country," the senator said. "I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend. I will not take advice from Kissinger."

source

With this logic alone, Sanders foreign policy is better than any of the politicians we have had in decades!!

originally posted by: Annee
How does you being a male - - let you understand what it was like being a woman (in a man's world) prior to the push for women's equality?

And, I keep trying to not thread drift.

Honestly, I really don't see what being a woman has to do with anything. It would be a nice gesture if we had a woman President, and some day we will but it shouldn't be Hillary. Every time Hillary says "lets have a woman President" she's making a case why she shouldn't be that person, because her only reason for it being her is that she's popular.

Look at her history.
As First Lady she was given an unprecedented amount of power, screwed up virtually everything she touched and effectively resigned before her term was up in order to go live in New York.
Because of her ties to Bill she was quite literally given a Senate seat in New York. During her time in office she did nothing of note and quit before she finished her first term.
Then she ran for President and quit in the middle of a close primary, getting beaten by a complete unknown.
Then she was Secretary of State and again given an unprecedented amount of power for that office (she effectively ran our foreign policy with zero oversight). She screwed up several countries, was the catalyst for the two biggest information leaks the government has ever had, was able to inspire such little loyalty that the Pentagon was conducting foreign policy behind her back, and then in the end couldn't handle the stress of the job and finished her term early.

She has been given immense opportunities in our government, far more than her resume has ever suggested she should be given and the outcome has been her screwing up everything she has touched and not being able to see anything through to the end.

Her record suggests that she would not make a good President, and to be perfectly honest I doubt she would even finish the first term she was elected to.

a reply to: Aazadan

So you think the government shouldn't be involved with infrastructure or education?

Nope

Spending 1 trillion dollars on infrastructure is about as asinine as it gets. Other than the fact that the people that should pay for them. Are those that get a DIRECT benefit from it. Meaning LOCALS.

Makes no GD sense WHATSO EVER for people living in Indiana to pay for a road or bridges in California or New York.

And unless a person happens to be a wait for CONSTRUCTION WORKER. IT doesn't benefit millions of other Americans.

Education when the cost of an education is NOT going for education but the country club amenities colleges and universities offer to 'student's' today.

That is another helping of stupidity.

Back in the day the STATE's issued BONDS for roads, and bridges.

Back in the day like my parents, and grand parents PAID for their own education.

I want to know why todays generation think they are so effing special?

I thought there'd be more (elsewhere) discussion. Not much really.

I found this which IMO sums it up. No nasty comments about Mother Jones, just read the whole article.

Tonight's Debate Really Drove Home the Bernie vs. Hillary Dilemma

Bernie: Free health care for everyone!

Hillary: Let's not overpromise. Maybe we can get partway there. You know, one percent at a time.

Bernie: When I'm president we'll have free college for everyone!

Hillary: But we have to get the policy right. All the stakeholders need to buy in. It's tricky.

Bernie: We need radical transformation of our criminal justice system!

Hillary: A commission had some good ideas recently and I endorse them.

Bernie: Let the children in!

Hillary: Yes, but first we need an appropriate process.

OK, I'm kidding. Sort of.

(synopsis follows)

www.motherjones.com...

I agree with the last paragraph.

a reply to: neo96

Uh...my state and local municipality issue bonds. We vote on bond issues at the local city level all the time.

a reply to: Annee

I don't mind if Bernie sounds idealistic. You have to have ideas before anything ever happens.

If Bernie only manages to get the ball rolling on getting money out of politics ... and if he only goes for one term, I'll consider that a net win.

No one is building a wall with Mexico. No one is going to close our borders 100% to Muslims.

Neither side is going to accomplish what they claim. I'd rather get the seeds planted for a better America than a more backwards one.

*shrug*

We're AMERICA. I thought we were supposedly the best nation on Earth? All I hear from Trump, Hillary and others is how we "can't do that..." or that isn't "realistic"...

We put a freaking man on the Moon! In 10 years! And we're still paying $20 for a Tylenol at the hospital when it costs less than .50 cents in Canada.

originally posted by: neo96
Nope

Spending 1 trillion dollars on infrastructure is about as asinine as it gets. Other than the fact that the people that should pay for them. Are those that get a DIRECT benefit from it. Meaning LOCALS.

Makes no GD sense WHATSO EVER for people living in Indiana to pay for a road or bridges in California or New York.

And unless a person happens to be a wait for CONSTRUCTION WORKER. IT doesn't benefit millions of other Americans.

Education when the cost of an education is NOT going for education but the country club amenities colleges and universities offer to 'student's' today.

That is another helping of stupidity.

Back in the day the STATE's issued BONDS for roads, and bridges.

Back in the day like my parents, and grand parents PAID for their own education.

I want to know why todays generation think they are so effing special?

Well, aside from the fact that Indiana benefits from New York having efficient ports and well developed roads because goods can be shipped there. It also allows Indiana to ship goods out of the state and that's just goods. Look at our power grid, it's done on a national level. Electricity is bought and sold between states all the time. Quite frankly, it's in Indiana's interest for New York, Ohio, California, Kansas, Arizona, and Florida to have proper infrastructure. We can even take this a step further too because this could all be said to fall under regulating interstate commerce which the Constitution expressly permits the federal government to be involved in.

Those construction workers getting paid benefit others too. When they're paid, what do you think they do with the money? They go spend it with various merchants generating jobs.

Also, your parents, grandparents, and likely you benefited from having massively subsidized college educations. Remember back when you could pay for an entire years worth of tuition, plus room and board for the year with nothing more than a summer job? That's because rather than give loans to students the colleges were being given a ton of money by the states and feds to keep costs down.

originally posted by: neo96
Take a shot of your preferred alcohol every time Bernie says oligarch.

Take two shots every time he says rich.

Take three shots every time he says billionaire.

Take four shots every time he says 'free'.

Can anyone say "alcohol poisoning" ? Within the first 10 minutes. If you play that drinking game , please contact your local ER and have an ambulance standing by...

a reply to: Gothmog

Because the corruption of the political system by the rich and influential disenfranchising the populace and trampling the Constitution (which last time I checked was something you guys thought was a vaguely important document) totally isn't a problem. Bernie totally shouldn't be talking about it.

The US is in a very bad spot right now, it is in dire need of change, and it is an Oligarchy.

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: Gothmog

Because the corruption of the political system by the rich and influential disenfranchising the populace and trampling the Constitution (which last time I checked was something you guys thought was a vaguely important document) totally isn't a problem. Bernie totally shouldn't be talking about it.

The US is in a very bad spot right now, it is in dire need of change, and it is an Oligarchy.

It was humor. You do understand the concept of "making light" , yes ? Reread both posts and hopefully you too will know the answer. Maybe. We in the US poke fun at our political system and the politicians . We can , you know . They , after all , are US politicians.